there goes the hay supply

crwilson · #1 01/30/13, 08:01 PM

http://www.monsanto.com/products/Pages/alfalfa.aspx

So pretty much nothing is left uncontaminated now.

Bettacreek · #2 01/30/13, 08:07 PM

Ugh. This is getting to be ridiculous. We went out to eat today as a special day and ended up in deep conversation with the pizza shop owner about just how hard it was to obtain non-GMO supplies for their shop. Sad thing being, he shops all locally grown foods, so that means if most here are raising that garbage, sure enough the hay will go that way as well.

Pony · #3 01/30/13, 08:17 PM

I have some organic alfalfa seed that I was going to use for sprouts. Might be a better idea to start a field of hay...

springvalley · #4 01/30/13, 08:22 PM

Pony, can I ask what it costs you for your Alfalfa seed ?? > Thanks Marc

Johnny Dolittle · #5 01/30/13, 08:33 PM

Notice :This is not a GMO debate thread .... just sharing practical information about crops

.... my neighbor grew GMO corn and beans for the first time last year .... after growing just hay for many years. He is trying some open pollinated corn varieties this year. GMO corn seed can be $350 for a bag which plants three acres I believe. He is also growing some heirloom types and looking for a market other than the elevator.

Bearfootfarm · #6 01/30/13, 08:51 PM

Quote:

This is not a GMO debate thread ..

Sure it's not.

It's also a two year old story

Quote:

Based on the decision of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) on January 27, 2011, Genuity® Roundup Ready® Alfalfa seed is available for sale and distribution by authorized Seed Companies or their dealers.

rambler · #7 01/30/13, 10:26 PM

Been available for several years now, was out for a while, got a legal hiccup and was off the market a couple years, and is back on the market for at least 2 seasons now. Anyhow, been out there for some time already.

Actually it is one of the less popular products in my area. Mowing the hay every 30 days does well to control the weeds too, don't need the expensive seed. It is very expensive.

I understand its bigger market is in dry areas to the West where dry periods have the alfalfa go dormant but the weeds still come through. This is a big export market as I understand it. As well it is popular for very fussy horse owners that can't stand seeing a weed in their horse hay.

Not as common in the cooler midsection of the country, tho used by some.

I didn't argue a thing, info is cool.

Paul

Molly Mckee · #8 01/30/13, 11:27 PM

Not real popular here either, it's just not cost effective.

CaliannG · #9 01/30/13, 11:43 PM

Not going to be a problem down here. Until they develop a GMO alfalfa that repels alfalfa weevils and blister beetles, we aren't going to be growing it.

ksfarmer · #10 01/31/13, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Not going to be a problem down here. Until they develop a GMO alfalfa that repels alfalfa weevils and blister beetles, we aren't going to be growing it.

Yes, we would really go for one that repels weevils and beetles. Much bigger problem than weeds in our area.

sidepasser · #11 01/31/13, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

Been available for several years now, was out for a while, got a legal hiccup and was off the market a couple years, and is back on the market for at least 2 seasons now. Anyhow, been out there for some time already.

Actually it is one of the less popular products in my area. Mowing the hay every 30 days does well to control the weeds too, don't need the expensive seed. It is very expensive.

I understand its bigger market is in dry areas to the West where dry periods have the alfalfa go dormant but the weeds still come through. This is a big export market as I understand it. As well it is popular for very fussy horse owners that can't stand seeing a weed in their horse hay.

Not as common in the cooler midsection of the country, tho used by some.

I didn't argue a thing, info is cool.

Paul

Alfalfa is like crack for my horse so I can't feed it to her. She gets coastal bermuda is a happy, LOW KEY camper - lol...

Alfalfa though is used for the hard keeping TBs in our barn and it is $18.00 a bale for a small square. I can see people raising it if it brings that kind of money and they have a ready market for it in the horse industry.

farmerDale · #12 01/31/13, 01:51 PM

I think there will be a limited market for rr alfalfa seed, because as mentioned, once established, alfalfa generally had few weed issues if taken care of in terms of soil fertility to keep it healthy.

Another thing, is that because alfalfa is cut as hay, there is pretty much zero chance that cross contamination will occur even on fields with plants from both genetics physically touching each other.

So for the two above reasons, I do not see any reasonable person to be at all concerned about rr alfalfa. Much ado about nothing.

And as someone said, this is not meant as a gmo debate? Yeah right!

Can someone say, KNEE JERK????

Dale

sammyd · #13 01/31/13, 01:57 PM

alfalfa is usually cut for silage when the stuff is in bud for maximum feed value.
Even when making hay it is cut in bloom.

Callieslamb · #14 01/31/13, 02:51 PM

If rr alfalfa doesn't let weeds grow...will it not allow grasses to grow with it so you can have mixed hay?

rambler · #15 01/31/13, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callieslamb

If rr alfalfa doesn't let weeds grow...will it not allow grasses to grow with it so you can have mixed hay?

My understanding is the rr alfalfa is aimed at folks out west who produce very high dollar very very pure alfalfa often for export, or for making dry cubed alfalfa of a very high protein content. They want very pure alfalfa, no grass or weeds at all.

Other areas of the country, the rr alfalfa is sprayed once early with roundup so that early flush of heavy weeds are killed, and then little more spraying is needed. Perhaps on the 3rd year to clean up some weed infestations that appear. This is why is is less popular, as the seed costs so much, and you only bother spraying it a time or 2 in my areas....

There is nothing to prevent you from interceding a grass into rr alfalfa, and it will grow fine, but of course you can no longer spray for weeds after that.

If you wish to have a mixed alfalfa and grass crop from the beginning, rr alfalfa is not for you,as you could not spray with roundup.

Paul

Edit: rereading your question, there is no gmo crop that prevents weeds from growing, the gmo part only allows you to use special sprays that kill most weeds but do not harm the special crop.

Insect control gmo on the other hand, the naturally occurring bt insect toxin does get placed into the root or stem cells of the crop.

haypoint · #16 01/31/13, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callieslamb

If rr alfalfa doesn't let weeds grow...will it not allow grasses to grow with it so you can have mixed hay?

It isn't the rr alfalfa that doesn't let the weeds grow. It is the Roundup spray that doesn't let the weeds grow. Roundup kills everything, except the rr alfalfa. rr alfalfa cannot supress weeds.

But you do bring up a good point. After I have sprayed the rr alfalfa as it is getting established and then a year or two later, to kill the weeds that come up from weed seeds in the soil, I might seed some brome or timothy into a rr alfalfa stand. But as soon as weeds present a problem, I can spray and kill all the weeds and my brome and timothy.

Opening up a hay field every few years with a plow and disc allows a lot of erosion, too. A quick spray with Roundup and reseeding a bare spot every few years would keep the field productive for a long time.

Johnny Dolittle · #17 01/31/13, 04:38 PM

There is a lot of mixed plantings here probably for various reasons but soil tends to be heavy with wetter areas scattered around. So after a few years parts of the fields become less alfalfa and more grass and eventually a decision is made to cut when the grass is high enough without regard to the stage of alfalfa growth. So non rr could produce seed from being crossed with a neighbors field. I am sure some will be growing rr alfalfa at least on the better ground.

Lazy J · #18 01/31/13, 04:44 PM

RR Ready Alalfa is designed to help alfalfa producers establish their alfalfa stands by eliminating weeds. Research by some universities showed a significant improvement in establishment year alfalfa yields and stand longevity.

Pony · #19 01/31/13, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

Pony, can I ask what it costs you for your Alfalfa seed ?? > Thanks Marc

You can ask, but I'm afraid I can't remember to tell you.

As I said, it's just some seed I bought to sprout, so there's not a whole lot there. Enough to start my own little field, but that's it.

Callieslamb · #20 01/31/13, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

...........There is nothing to prevent you from interceding a grass into rr alfalfa, and it will grow fine, but of course you can no longer spray for weeds after that.

If you wish to have a mixed alfalfa and grass crop from the beginning, rr alfalfa is not for you,as you could not spray with roundup.... .

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

It isn't the rr alfalfa that doesn't let the weeds grow. It is the Roundup spray that doesn't let the weeds grow. Roundup kills everything, except the rr alfalfa. rr alfalfa cannot supress weeds..............

That make sense. Thanks! I don't want to grow it. I was just wondering what its use was if you couldn't grow grass with it. Duh.