Barn design?

[CesumPec]

I'm about ready to get started on a barn. The rough layout below is what I'm thinking. The red lines represent doors at an approx. scale width. If I understand pitch correctly, the peak of the barn needs to be about 20 ft high. We don't need a lot of slope on roofs in Florida, so I'm thinking 3:12 ought to be OK both aesthetically and to shed the occasional heavy rains. That means a 20 foot peak, 15ft roof edge, and the greenhouse will slope from 15’ to 10’ on the south side. I need that much height for dwarf trees.

Greenhouse, 20 x 40: yes, I know a lot of people don't like them, but it fits my plans. It is a bit large because I plan to not only uses it for starts, but also permanent residents that are frost sensitive. Drive thru doors on the east end and a walk thru door to the workshop on the north side. “Glass” on east, south, and west with a solid wall on the north shared with the workshop.

Barn roof area = 40 x 60 and under roof is the workshop and open storage


Workshop, 20 x 40: the workshop is completely enclosed with drive thru wide doors on two sides, either roll up, sliding, or double swing doors. I'm thinking about putting a 12 ceiling on this to have storage over the ceiling. That should give me enough headroom to bring in the backhoe for maintenance.

Open storage: this area is under roof but open sided. Will use it to park equipment mostly, might have a few rabbit cages under there if I get ambitious. I like that I get a 60’ long section as well as a 40‘ long section and either can function as a drive thru lane if needed.


The barn sits on a 100 x 100 cleared area which I hope will give me plenty of tractor maneuvering room going in, out, and around the structure.


I NEED enclosed storage for security. There are things I need to have on the farm that I have not purchased because I don’t have a safe place to keep them. I need a concrete floor workshop to improve working conditions. I WANT a greenhouse. I have a near unlimited supply of free telephone poles to reduce construction costs. But of course, metal roof and whatever siding on the workshop will be a big expense.



I’m not married to this layout. Since I’ve never seen it, I suspect there is something wrong with it. Please tear the idea apart so that I can avoid costly mistakes. All constructive comments appreciated.

[joe&katie]

I can't see your drawing. From you description, I would make a couple of suggestions. Metal roofs need a certain pitch to shed water no matter where you are, are you sure your roof is steep enough? Heavy downpours are common in central Florida, I would say a lot more than 'occasional'. I grew up in central Florida, and remember them almost every afternoon at certain times of year, and then there are also hurricanes. What kind of air circulation will you have to prevent excessive heat build up in the greenhouse? A due south facing greenhouse might get way too hot, even in winter.

[CesumPec]

Whoops, here is my drawing

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by joe&katie

I can't see your drawing. From you description, I would make a couple of suggestions. Metal roofs need a certain pitch to shed water no matter where you are, are you sure your roof is steep enough? Heavy downpours are common in central Florida, I would say a lot more than 'occasional'. I grew up in central Florida, and remember them almost every afternoon at certain times of year, and then there are also hurricanes. What kind of air circulation will you have to prevent excessive heat build up in the greenhouse? A due south facing greenhouse might get way too hot, even in winter.

There are lots of metal roof buildings here that have a shallower pitch than 3:12 so I'm not too worried about that. Will have gutters and tanks to provide irrigation to the greenhouse. From what I understand, the south facing greenhouse is for light in the off season. As a lot of days recently have been in the low 80s, shedding heat will be an issue but I haven't got that far yet. The barn will be built soon and the greenhouse added when funds are available in the next year or two.

[coolrunnin]

They are never big enough build as big as you can afford and make it hurt...lol

[DaleK]

I'd turn the workshop around and have it run the entire east wall and 20'? on the north, doors on the southeast corner, north side and probably one into storage. The more access you have into your shop the better, you'll probably be moving things in and out of it more often than in or out of storage. How much overhang? I see a lot of barns with 6", my shop has 2' and I really prefer that. Remember that your walls and doors are going to be lower than the ceiling so make sure you have the clearance you need there, not just at the ceiling. I'd be inclined to go at least 14' since most of your building doesn't have walls anyway so you're only increasing the cost by the extra length of the posts on 50+% of the building and a little bit of wall on the rest. If you can do scissor trusses of some kind at least over the shop you'll get more overhead storage easier.

[DaleK]

What does that slope give you for your greenhouse clearances at the south edge and how will the rainfall from the roof above it affect it?You may be better off offsetting the greenhouse, or if you have long posts monosloping the steel roof away from the greenhouse.

[swerven]

Comment: 3:12 seems way more than adequate for the pitch. Also consider a large door at the West end of the shop, instead of the North side. Sometimes it's handy to pull a truck and trailer with a disabled whatever through the shop. Question: Where is the ridge (high point) of the roof? At the North wall of the enclosed shop? Midway in the shop? Probably a better question is: What is the minimum headroom required in the open storage area? This might determine the ridge location.

[CesumPec]

DaleK and Swerven, good points and perhaps this revised drawing addresses your issues.

I do need a 11 - 12 ft door so a 13 or 14 ft ceiling is needed. agreed to the superiority of a 2 ft overhang, I can easily accomplish that by moving the workshop a couple of feet east in the revised layout. moved the shop and greenhouse and that gives the open store area more weather protection and improves morning sunlight into the greenhouse, and offers a more workable 40 ft square as storage. This allows for a pull through the shop going west / east or a north/south pull through in storage area.

AFA trusses, I've been told I need to either keep the spans to 20 ft or pay way more for engineered trusses to span the 40 ft width. I haven't priced this or verified with an engineer firm to know if it is a valid issue. Assuming it is a major price issue, that would mean I would need a few center poles down the ridge line in the open store area.

In general, weather and prevailing winds is a mixed bag. There is a general west to east flow much of the time but depending on season the air flows more from south or north. So east is probably best side to have open...of course until a hurricane when all bets are off.

[DaleK]

Still thinking but i like that a lot better

[rambler]

I'd find it hard to work on stuff in a building narrower than 28 feet.

If money and location were no object, I'd say for a drive in shop you want to store stuff in, have your tools, and have room to work on something, you'd need a 30 by 40 shop area.

But of course, someone has to pay for it, so...

But, anyhow, how do you have room to put any storage on the wall, and pull in a backhoe, and have room to work on it? Person pulls off a shaft, or takes a wheel off, you need 6 feet of open space to work. 20 feet is just too narrow. At least 24 feet? At least?

Your door layouts seem odd to me. You will want to drive something long in (pickup and trailer, etc) so you need a door on the end. The doors on the side aren't worth much on a 20 foot wide building. You got a bench somewhere, and a shelf or 2 to hold supplies, tools, etc. won't even fit a car in from the side with such a narrow building. And you need wall space in a shop, not too many doors.

I kinda like the 2nd setup, move the shop wall over 10 more feet, won't cost diddly as all you need is 10 feet of wall tin, you got the rest all there, silly not to!

Really, the shop area could be as wide as the greenhouse, very low cost for what you get, nice big building with a little roofed open area, won't cost much to wall up and you get much more valuable building.

If you need to heat this (Its minus 3 right now, I can't comprehend 'winter' in Florida) then less doors is better, they are difficult to seal. Can't see the bigger building costing you much more to heat. Just go to the left greenhouse line, and draw the left shop line straight down from it. You already are building -all- the walls to make this the enclosed building, except for the short bottom bit of wall.

Paul

[rambler]

I modified your pic a bit.

Mine gives you a bigger sinle door on the right, an optional door on the left into the 40x20 open storage.

Your main enclosed shop now is 40 by 40, and the only additional cost is the pink 20 feet of wall. Very very cheap to double the size of your building! Be foolish not to do this, the cost is peanuts to build that short bit of wall.

Going down from 4 doors to 3 or 2 will likely make that pink wall free, so you aren't even spending more, but getting a nice big building.

The shallow roof should work in your location, but perhaps a 4-12 would give you a stronger truss? You will regret poles down the middle......

First time I've uploaded a pic here, see if it actually works....

--->Paul

[dkhern]

plus 1 on the drive thru door in one side out the other. i welded c channel together for rafters and welded at ridge they span 30' no problems yet. xmas had 16" of smow and no problem good luck

[DaleK]

Maybe you should make a list, even if you keep it to yourself, of what you want/need to store, dimensions, etc. and see what fits where/get a rough idea of how much a row of posts would or wouldn't bother you. Cut the bigger ones out of graph paper and move them around. You could do the same on a different scale with the shop to get a visual of how much space welders/drillpresses/benches/etc would take up.

[derm]

I would incorporate some venting between the greenhouse and the barn structure. The greenhouse will generate heat and convection that can be used if needed to be drafted into the barn. Open and close as needed to share or save heat.

[jwal10]

Can you turn the shed and put the greenhouse on the gable end? 20'x40' greenhouse south side, 20'x40' shop with 16' wide doors in the center section and the rest to the north, open or closed storage as needed....James

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by DaleK

Maybe you should make a list, even if you keep it to yourself, of what you want/need to store, dimensions, etc. and see what fits where/get a rough idea of how much a row of posts would or wouldn't bother you. Cut the bigger ones out of graph paper and move them around. You could do the same on a different scale with the shop to get a visual of how much space welders/drillpresses/benches/etc would take up.

Things i would like to put under cover with length and just consider everything as 8ft wide: Backhoe 24 ft, chipper 19 ft, tractor 13 ft, truck 22 ft, plus various tractor implements such as disc, and several smaller items. The first layout lended itself well to parking equipment, if not an efficient workshop, and besides the cost factor, is why i don't want to enclose the entire barn.

In the shop, a 20 x 20 area serves me just fine for various benches, wood working, welder. I had that stuff in a 2 car garage previously with plenty of room to spare.

Another 20 x 20 ought to be enough area to work on a piece of equipment and have mechanic tools, chain hoist, etc. But I like your challenge because it made me think that I couldn't leave a torn down truck (noooo, that would never happen) in the work shop over night and close up all the doors. I'm fairly remote; people can't take anything from my barn without going past my house or pulling it through a mile of woods/swamp/lake. But still, no need to tempt anyone, I want to be able to lock down tight every night. the 30 x 40 workshop might be a good idea.

As to posts down the ridge line, I agree i don't want that, it just might be a compromise I'm forced to live with. Since i don't even have a rough guess as to what trusses will cost, I don't know if a 40 ft clear span is financially possible. What I want to do here, with the highly appreciated input from you folks, is to get the best layout possible and after pricing it out, I'll make any required financial and engineering compromises.

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by derm

I would incorporate some venting between the greenhouse and the barn structure. The greenhouse will generate heat and convection that can be used if needed to be drafted into the barn. Open and close as needed to share or save heat.

i have planned to do something like that. That is one of the reasons for putting a door between the greenshouse and workshop. But heat is most often something to get out of the barn in Florida.

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by rambler

I modified your pic a bit.

Mine gives you a bigger sinle door on the right, an optional door on the left into the 40x20 open storage.

Your main enclosed shop now is 40 by 40, and the only additional cost is the pink 20 feet of wall. Very very cheap to double the size of your building! Be foolish not to do this, the cost is peanuts to build that short bit of wall.

Going down from 4 doors to 3 or 2 will likely make that pink wall free, so you aren't even spending more, but getting a nice big building.

The shallow roof should work in your location, but perhaps a 4-12 would give you a stronger truss? You will regret poles down the middle......

First time I've uploaded a pic here, see if it actually works....

--->Paul

Good thoughts, I like your idea of a 30 x 40 workshop so that i still have sufficient space to get equipment under cover on the storage side.

Depending on what an expert tells me about distance between posts based on my sandy soil, building height, span length, etc posts could be as little as 10 ft centers but I'm hoping for 12 or 15 ft between poles. That makes for easier access when parking equipment. Once I know what pole spacing I must use, I'll adjust for at least a 2 ft overhang in front of the shop, and then adjust "room" sizes to fit pole spacing.

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by jwal10

Can you turn the shed and put the greenhouse on the gable end? 20'x40' greenhouse south side, 20'x40' shop with 16' wide doors in the center section and the rest to the north, open or closed storage as needed....James

AFA lot size, that would be fine. But I wanted an east / west ridge line so that the south roof face provides an efficient place for PV. If PV electric ever gets affordable, i would like to install that on the roof to provide at least some of the homestead power.