Spring water / cistern / pump

bigd-bigm · #1 01/26/13, 05:17 PM

I am developing a spring on our property (due to a poor performing well) Unfortunately, the spring is about 40ft below our house. I plan to catch the water in a buried tank (maybe 1200 gal). We have a chlorine treatment system that I would like to continue to use but am wondering if anyone has any experience using a chlorinator with an outdoor/buried water tank?

We live in Western PA so I am concerned about freezing - so I guess my chlorine injection pump must remain in the house - but not sure it will actually pump the 250ft to the cistern.

Also - wondering about the tank overflow - any ideas so that the chlorinated water is not flowing out the overflow (maybe some sort of diversion scheme that would divert water after it reaches a certain level?

Thanks for any ideas.

Darryl

littlebitfarm · #2 01/26/13, 05:35 PM

How are you going to get the water to the house?

I would put another tank at the house and pump the chlorine into that tank. Then no worry about overflow from the first tank.

Could set the pump in the first tank and set it up to pump based on a float switch in the tank at the house.

Kathie

bigd-bigm · #3 01/26/13, 05:55 PM

I was planning to put a constant pressure pump in the tank by the spring - so we didn't need to have a pump in the house.

I have a spring box (from carolina water tank) so I could have some sort of shut-off coming into the main tank - to back the water back into the spring box - and let it go through the overflow there I guess. - But I haven't been able to find such a valve.

We have had the setup with the chlorine tank in the basement and a jet pump in the basement - and I wanted to try to get away from that - that jet pump is extremely noisy so it would be much nicer to have constant pressure pump in the 1200 gal tank.

Any thoughts on a shut-off valve that is somehow tied to a float? -

Any other ideas on automated chlorination for the tank that is 250 ft away?

Vosey · #4 01/26/13, 07:12 PM

How about building a pump house if you have the skills/money? We have a creek irrigation system, our tank, pump and filtration system are in the pump house. No concerns with anything freezing except the filtration system (UV filter) which we we've had the best success with wrapping sensitive parts with heat tape. We may not get as cold as you, low teens at night in the winter, usually 20's. The ground freezes, but not very deeply.

bigd-bigm · #5 01/26/13, 07:15 PM

Is your pump house under ground? - We have been in single digits for the past week. - I was wondering if an underground block house would be worth doing. Any pictures of pump houses?

#6 01/26/13, 09:32 PM

Why not install a submersible pump in the buried 1200 gallon tank & pump from there to a pressure tank at the house ? Add chlorination after the pressure tank .

Waterwheel Farm · #7 01/27/13, 02:22 AM

My system is similar to yours. I have a mostly buried cistern with a log shed built on top. The spring runs into the cistern, and if it's full the cistern just overflows to the normal spring outflow. There's a submersible pump inside the cistern that pumps water through a buried line up to the house to the house. Elevations and distances are about the same as what you are proposing. At the house inside, is a pressure tank that controls the pump, a set of filters, and a UV light to eliminate bacteria instead of using chlorine. I also have a bypass at the cistern if I know it might rain really hard and make the spring run cloudy, or if I need to work on the cistern. I'll try to attach a picture of the springhouse.

Spring water / cistern / pump - Homesteading Questions

Spring water / cistern / pump - Homesteading Questions

bigd-bigm · #8 01/27/13, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

Why not install a submersible pump in the buried 1200 gallon tank & pump from there to a pressure tank at the house ? Add chlorination after the pressure tank .

One of my goals is to not have a pump inside the house. We have that now and it is very loud. So if there is a way that we could eliminate this that is what I am shooting for.

If I can add the chlorine in the buried tank - then I can just have the pressurized line going up to the house and no pump in the house.

bigd-bigm · #9 01/27/13, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterwheel Farm

My system is similar to yours. I have a mostly buried cistern with a log shed built on top. The spring runs into the cistern, and if it's full the cistern just overflows to the normal spring outflow. There's a submersible pump inside the cistern that pumps water through a buried line up to the house to the house. Elevations and distances are about the same as what you are proposing. At the house inside, is a pressure tank that controls the pump, a set of filters, and a UV light to eliminate bacteria instead of using chlorine. I also have a bypass at the cistern if I know it might rain really hard and make the spring run cloudy, or if I need to work on the cistern. I'll try to attach a picture of the springhouse.

Spring water / cistern / pump - Homesteading Questions

This would probably help in keeping the weather off of my chlorinator - but I am still worried that we may see some freezing inside the spring house. Thanks for the picture - I can use all the ideas I can get.

motdaugrnds · #10 01/27/13, 08:29 AM

I 2nd the idea of a submersible pump in your tank. We have a "pitless adapter" in our well pipe that is beneath our frost line; but if you buried your tank deep enough to cover the top, freezing might not be an issue for you.

bigd-bigm · #11 01/27/13, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motdaugrnds

I 2nd the idea of a submersible pump in your tank. We have a "pitless adapter" in our well pipe that is beneath our frost line; but if you buried your tank deep enough to cover the top, freezing might not be an issue for you.

Right - I think submersible pump is the way to go to get the water up to the house.

It looks like I could get a pressurized tank (contact tank) to put in the basement - 30 gal. where the chlorine could mix in. That way I will not have to chlorinate the large tank.

I will have to look into these - anyone with experience with this?

Vosey · #12 01/27/13, 11:07 AM

Looks like we have just about the same set-up as Waterwheel Farm (great photo!). Forgot to mention we have a submersible pump. We insulated the pump house, the line to the house is under the frost line.

Do think about sediment. During the rainy season we go through a sediment filter about every 3 weeks, we try to stretch it to 4. The water pressure slows down as the filter builds up. The water is often yellow, but still OK to drink. When the ground is frozen, not so much filter use and the water is sparkling clear. When water levels decrease at the end of the summer the bacteria levels go up.

meanwhile · #13 01/27/13, 12:48 PM

We have similar set up. Our spring is way-far down the hill from the house. I would estimate it is 2 "city blocks" off and downhill.

1. We let the spring water gravity flow into a new cement septic tank which holds 1200 gallons water. The overflow just goes on down the hill which already has a tiny creek in it. We have a submersible pump in the cement tank. Nearby we have a small pump house which holds a pressure tank. It is necessary to pressure the line down hill since it has to pump really far.
2. Uphill near the house we have a 2nd new cement septic tank which also holds 1200 gallons water. It does have an overflow hole but has never overflowed (if 'ya don't count the time "someone" accidentally messed up the float switch). If it did the water would just run down a hill. This 2nd tank also has a submerible pump in it. It has a float switch and when we use the water it "calls" down to the 1st tank to send up water.
3. The pressure tank for the 2nd pump and line is in our basement.
4. In the basement we also have a UV device and particle cleaner which cleans the water before use inside the house.
5. Outside the water goes to four outside spigots but it is not "cleaned" with the UV since, that water never enters the house.
6. Inside the basement we have a switch system where we can use only Well water inside the house (which is usually the case / the spring water is a "back up plan" plus we use a lot of spring water outside in the gardens). We can use spring water alone in the house or well water alone or mix them.

At one of our Cabins we use spring water alone and do nothing to it. No one has ever gotten sick at all. We do not even have a particle filter on it. This is not something I would recommend and we have a plan to clean out the line and put a UV system on it but for now, it is just spring water.

I do not know anything about the chlorine. Maybe can you look into the UV systems? Ours was here when we bought the house 11 years ago. We have never had any trouble with it and it only costs about $110.00 a year to change the filters, etc.

Good luck.

#14 01/27/13, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd-bigm

One of my goals is to not have a pump inside the house. We have that now and it is very loud. So if there is a way that we could eliminate this that is what I am shooting for.

If I can add the chlorine in the buried tank - then I can just have the pressurized line going up to the house and no pump in the house.

If you have a submersible pump in the 1200 gallon buried tank , you will have no pump inside the house unless you are talking about a chlorine pump of some type . Also if you chlorinate the 1200 gallon tank all of your water will be chlorinated , such as water for plants , animals , etc . If you chlorinate after the pressure tank , you could tee off before chlorination & have outside faucets , etc . that are not chlorinated .

bigd-bigm · #15 01/28/13, 05:08 PM

Another question before I get too far - Is there a benefit to cutting down the trees within a radius of the spring? (To minimize the chances of roots finding their way into the spring catch basin where the water comes out of the ground?)

meanwhile · #16 01/29/13, 09:33 AM

I would not cut the trees. Our spring has been used by humans for over 100 years and the trees have not damaged it so far. Just my thought.

RedRidge · #17 01/29/13, 09:45 AM

I'm trying to figure out why you are chorinating... I'm sure I don't have the big picture.
Have you tested the water?

We pump to a large tank/cistern that sits "above" our house... so the only power required is to run that pump... from there we gravity flow to the house plumbing (with a pressure reducer). Overflow goes down the ridge to the side in an emergency... but we do have a small level detector to keep track of tank level. We simply ran a small wire in the ditch with the pvc to the house. So both the pump (which is a power hog), and the level indicator (which is not) are run off the battery bank. This way we only have to fill the tank on sunny days when the battery bank is charging. We fill the tank about once a week. With that much water freezing is not a problem... the bottom half of the cistern and outlets are buried.

meanwhile · #18 01/29/13, 10:10 AM

http://www.oasisdesign.net/index.htm

http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/

Just in case it helps, I wanted to share the links above. We find a ton of great information about water, storing water and cleaning water in the links above. Look at their list of links too. Lots of good information there too.

bigd-bigm · #19 01/29/13, 10:21 AM

[QUOTE=RedRidge;6416802]I'm trying to figure out why you are chorinating... I'm sure I don't have the big picture.
Have you tested the water?

QUOTE]

We are getting the spring water tested this week - I have heard that most springs do need this treatment. - BUT the driving reason for chlorination is that we need this for our well - which will also contribute to our water supply. Right now the well is our only water supply - and we chlorinate and then filter the water so that it is drinkable (had some bacteria in it which is why we got the chlorinator/filter).

So we will have one tank 1200gal (we live at the top of the hill so no luck with gravity helping) and we will pump our well into this tank (5 gal / hour which is not enough to keep up with our usage) and the spring will flow into the tank too (right now going at about 5 gal a minute, but varries during the seasons).

Between the two fo them, I think we should have plenty of water throughout the year.

We plan to have a well pump submersed in our tank and that will pressurize the house.

Waterwheel Farm · #20 01/29/13, 12:07 PM

Don't know who's doing your testing, but if they know it's coming from a spring they pretty much automatically flunk it anyway. Testing a spring is just a snapshot in time, and water quality from a spring can change a lot depending on water flow, or lack of it and it's many sources. I don't blame you for chlorinating it, or however you choose to treat it. My spring is sealed and runs thru a 3" PVC pipe underground to the cistern. Even with these precautions, when I clean out the cistern it always has plenty of crawfish in it, which I assume comes from the spring/cave. So yeah, technically I guess I drink crawdad doo-doo. I try not to think about it too much, but I do at least have filters and UV light to purify it.....at least that's what I keep telling myself.

Still alive and kickin for now tho.