running out of hot water

[cojax]

i have a 50 gallon electric hot water heater and with 1 woman and 2 teen girls living with me seems like I always get a warm shower at best..... so my question is I have been looking at a propane tankless water heater and would like to know the pros and cons.....the propane company praises them and would put one in for about 2000 dollars....but I think they are a little bias.....any input will be appreciated.....propane here is 2.49 a gallon....thanks cojax

[TnAndy]

First, you sure the electric water heater is working right ?

Sounds a lot like the lower element burned out, leaving you with 1/2 a tank of hot water. This is very common, especially if you have hard water. Lime chips precipitate out of the water, bury the lower element, and it then fails as not enough water around it to keep it cool enough.

On propane, I planed to replace my propane tank heater with a tankless model, but after talking to my neighbor, who has run the QC section of the local American Water Heater plant for years, decided to go back with a cheaper tank model.

He said they had tested them extensively, and there was virtually NO difference in propane use......the standing pilot on the tank models uses more gas for that, but since it keeps the water at a higher temp, it uses less gas to bring the water up to HOT, versus a tankless that has to start with colder water.

He said the only advantage to a tankless was less footprint if space is an issue.....and the computer controls and sensors in the tankless are way more trouble/cost if you do have a problem with them. Tank models are pretty much dead simple....they work until the tank leaks.

[rancher1913]

their main weakness is the heat exchanger has small openings, thats how it heats the water quickly but if you have hard water they plug unless you descale them often. if you have good water they are great. I thought about putting one in when my old tank one went out but they all need voltage and I do like a hot shower when the power is out.

[wannabechef]

My father has a NG tankless and it's an endless supply of hot water...he loves it, it's more efficient, and its reliable. Anyone who tells you keeping a tank full of water hot is as efficient as heating it on demand probably sells water heaters that are tank style. A tankless uses zero energy unless its being used (a tiny amount of electric for the control panel).

[TnAndy]

Originally Posted by wannabechef

Anyone who tells you keeping a tank full of water hot is as efficient as heating it on demand probably sells water heaters that are tank style.

Yeah....that's the conventional thinking.....and no doubt promoted by companies that sell tankless models.

But pardon me if I take the word of a guy that has actually set them up in a lab condition and says different.....and whose company sells both.

What do the control panels cost if you get a electric spike and it burns out ?

[cojax]

thanks for the input guys.....we are on county water and it seems to be pretty good water. The electric hot water heater is about 4 years old and seems to be working fine....it to has a computer controlled module on it that tells you if something is wrong with it....the problem seems to be rush hour in the morning trying to get everyone showered and out the door within 1.5 hours......I like a hot shower not a warm shower and it seems like it just cant keep up in that short of time.....any ideas thanks cojax

[charged]

Have you tried turning up the thermostat? Maybe the wife bumped it when she was doing laundry?

[Steve in PA]

What kind of furnace do you have? Indirect water heaters off a good boiler are incredibly efficient.

[cojax]

I have a hot air propane furnace and the hot water heater is in the basement in the utility room with the furnace

[Steve in PA]

Originally Posted by cojax

I have a hot air propane furnace and the hot water heater is in the basement in the utility room with the furnace

Won't work then. Indirect only works if you have baseboard hydronic I believe.

[SolarGary]

Hi,
Just from an energy cost point of view --

If you use this calculator: http://www.builditsolar.com/Referenc...uelCompare.htm

It shows that $2.49 propane running and 85% efficient tankless is equal in cost to 10.5 cents per KWH electricity running a 95% efficient electric water heater.

So, if your electric bill says you are paying 10.5 cents per KWH or less, the propane tankless will not save you any money.

We had a tankless, and I liked it.
One thing to consider is that if two people are showering at once, then you have to get a tankless sized for that kind of flow.
Ours was a Takagi Jr, and would only do one shower, but was fine for that.

I don't get the standing pilot argument in that I don't think any of the new gas tanks use standing pilots -- they are very wasteful. The problem with regular gas tank heaters is that they have a flue that runs right up through the middle of the tank so the burner gasses can heat the tank, but that same flue thermosyphons air when the burner is not on, and this results in a lot of standby losses. The numbers I've seen show about 65% efficiency for gas tank heaters, and 85% for gas tankless.

Gary

[vicker]

Have you tried taking your shower first? I'd try that.

[Harry Chickpea]

First question - what temperature is that tank set? Ours is at 165. Setting thermostats lower effectively reduces the amount of tempered water available in the shower.

If the temp is set high and there still isn't enough, I'd just put in a second 50 gal electric.

[Copperhead]

Back in 2006, I put a tankless propane hot water heater in the house because the house was too small for a hot water tank. We actually ran it off the 20lb tanks from Walmart. One tank would last about a month with two adults, two kids and one baby. The washing machine was only connected to the cold water, but the hot water ran to the bathtub/shower, bathroom sink, and kitchen sink.

I really enjoyed being able to turn around in my bathroom (now that the tank was gone), but my favorite part was being able to dial in the perfect temperature for the perfect shower. 115F was a bit warm at first, but once ya got used to it, was just wonderful

[wannabechef]

Originally Posted by TnAndy

Yeah....that's the conventional thinking.....and no doubt promoted by companies that sell tankless models.

But pardon me if I take the word of a guy that has actually set them up in a lab condition and says different.....and whose company sells both.

What do the control panels cost if you get a electric spike and it burns out ?

Not going to argue with you, father had both...being a civil engineer he did the math, the tankless saves him money. No lab test, real world. And to my knowledge in 5 years zero problems. I will ask him though.

[badlander]

We have a tankless hot water heater at our homestead and LOVE it. We mounted it in the bathroom where you can reach out of the shower and adjust the heat to your liking. I like a really hot shower, DH likes it a little cooler. We run it off of a 20 pound LP tank that is stored under the sink in the cabinet and were impressed by how long that tank lasts for just the two of us.

Only down side that we have noticed is that the water pressure isn't as high as with a regular heater. I doubt if we will ever go back to a regular tank style heater.

[Sawmill Jim]

Why would anyone need a hot water heater if your water is already hot why heat it ??

[wannabechef]

Nobody has mentioned about incoming water temp and where the water heater is located...in the winter they do have to work harder.

[frankva]

Originally Posted by vicker

Have you tried taking your shower first? I'd try that.

There's your sign.

You think they live in there now, just wait until you have endless hot water.

[wannabechef]

Originally Posted by frankva

There's your sign.

You think they live in there now, just wait until you have endless hot water.

Very true, you will be kicked down a notch or two on the ole totem pole and showers will be never!