Interior paint Questions

[Woodpecker]

Over the summer I had my new to me house painted. The walls are plaster, the house is uninsulated and 100 years old. I see that the paint is cracking despite the skim coat the man I hired did. He told me in the begining I would have " new walls". Now that they are cracking he is telling me all sorts of things like this is happening because it is unisulated. Thoughts? I paid big money for this so I am very unhappy! TYIA!

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by Woodpecker

Over the summer I had my new to me house painted. The walls are plaster, the house is uninsulated and 100 years old. I see that the paint is cracking despite the skim coat the man I hired did. He told me in the begining I would have " new walls". Now that they are cracking he is telling me all sorts of things like this is happening because it is unisulated. Thoughts? I paid big money for this so I am very unhappy! TYIA!

Can't tell you much about the man you hired, but I have a hundred year old and older house, that no matter how many skim coats I could put over some of the cracks, they would still break open in a very short time. My house flexes with the weather and twists back and forth, so those cracks are the fault lines that have through the years, become the stress relievers. In fact, my bedroom door slams shut in the summertime and has to be pushed shut in the wintertime. With an old house, it's just like the wrinkles in my face--character lines.... It hasn't caved in yet......

geo

[farmerted]

Originally Posted by Woodpecker

Over the summer I had my new to me house painted. The walls are plaster, the house is uninsulated and 100 years old. I see that the paint is cracking despite the skim coat the man I hired did. He told me in the begining I would have " new walls". Now that they are cracking he is telling me all sorts of things like this is happening because it is unisulated. Thoughts? I paid big money for this so I am very unhappy! TYIA!

I am a painter, and plaster repairer, I paint plaster almost every single day. Most of the times it is already painted, but that has NEVER happened to me. No houses with plaster have insulation, so if this guy is right it should happen to every house, and that is obviously not true. If he knew that it was going to happen he should have put a coat of primer on it, and then painted it twice. If you have a contract, make sure to read it and see what he claimed that he would do to it. I would make him paint it again or sue him.

What do you mean by skim coat? did he skim coat all of the walls or just fix the broken parts? Was it already painted? What kind of paint did he use? Latex? Oil? Did he put a coat of primer on it?

I can't help, live in St Louis, but here is my website with what I do www.thewallfixer.com

[farmerted]

Originally Posted by Woodpecker

Over the summer I had my new to me house painted. The walls are plaster, the house is uninsulated and 100 years old. I see that the paint is cracking despite the skim coat the man I hired did. He told me in the begining I would have " new walls". Now that they are cracking he is telling me all sorts of things like this is happening because it is unisulated. Thoughts? I paid big money for this so I am very unhappy! TYIA!

The paint is cracking? or the plaster is cracking? How long of time between his work and the cracks? I guarantee mine for two years.

[farmerted]

I can't help, live in St Louis, but here is my website with what I do www.thewallfixer.com[/QUOTE]

unless you want to fly me to Long Island

[Woodpecker]

Originally Posted by farmerted

I am a painter, and plaster repairer, I paint plaster almost every single day. Most of the times it is already painted, but that has NEVER happened to me. No houses with plaster have insulation, so if this guy is right it should happen to every house, and that is obviously not true. If he knew that it was going to happen he should have put a coat of primer on it, and then painted it twice. If you have a contract, make sure to read it and see what he claimed that he would do to it. I would make him paint it again or sue him.

What do you mean by skim coat? did he skim coat all of the walls or just fix the broken parts? Was it already painted? What kind of paint did he use? Latex? Oil? Did he put a coat of primer on it?

I can't help, live in St Louis, but here is my website with what I do www.thewallfixer.com

Thanks geo!

Thanks he skim coated all the walls. They were already painted with old fading paint. Not sure on the kind of paint he used. I am pretty sure he primed after the skim coat. The paint is bubbling and cracking. He was really perplexed when I told and showed him the cracks the first time. If I hadn't spent so much on this I would fly you here in a heartbeat!Nice site and even better work! I did have a contract with him, I will need to read it over and see what I can do. He won't come back and fix it either. The only semi problem is he is my neighbor and I really don't want bad neighbor's unless I have to go that route.

[farmerted]

Originally Posted by Woodpecker

Thanks geo!

Thanks he skim coated all the walls. They were already painted with old fading paint. Not sure on the kind of paint he used. I am pretty sure he primed after the skim coat. The paint is bubbling and cracking. He was really perplexed when I told and showed him the cracks the first time. If I hadn't spent so much on this I would fly you here in a heartbeat!Nice site and even better work! I did have a contract with him, I will need to read it over and see what I can do. He won't come back and fix it either. The only semi problem is he is my neighbor and I really don't want bad neighbor's unless I have to go that route.

He should have left you the remaining paint. If he did you can check the can. If it smelled horrible it was oil, if it kind of smelled like paint it was probably latex. He should have put a coat of primer on it before and after. If I could see some pics I could probably tell you what the problem is, but it is hard to put pics on this site. You can email some to me at thewallfixer@yahoo.com if you want. If he is a professional it seems to me he would not let it stand, think about how poorly that reflects on him. If he didn't know what he was doing he should feel bad enough to fix it. If he is a decent business he WILL come back and fix it, if he doesn't I think it probably means he is not a great person anyway.

I am guessing he didn't let the plaster dry properly. If he left any plaster behind, you can read the directions and see if he followed them.

A good job = references = cash money.

[Woodpecker]

Originally Posted by farmerted

He should have left you the remaining paint. If he did you can check the can. If it smelled horrible it was oil, if it kind of smelled like paint it was probably latex. He should have put a coat of primer on it before and after. If I could see some pics I could probably tell you what the problem is, but it is hard to put pics on this site. You can email some to me at thewallfixer@yahoo.com if you want. If he is a professional it seems to me he would not let it stand, think about how poorly that reflects on him. If he didn't know what he was doing he should feel bad enough to fix it. If he is a decent business he WILL come back and fix it, if he doesn't I think it probably means he is not a great person anyway.

I am guessing he didn't let the plaster dry properly. If he left any plaster behind, you can read the directions and see if he followed them.

A good job = references = cash money.

Thanks you have been a big help! I will see if I can get some pics tomorrow. He did leave the cans so I will check that too. He usually works with newer houses so I don't think he knew how to really work with a house of this age. I agree he isn't a great person who will stand behind his business. I don't think he left any plaster but will check. Thanks for your help!

[Bob Huntress]

If he simply skim coated over aged cracked plaster, expect the paint and the skim coat to start seperating over time. Correct me where my assumptions are false. The original job over a hundred or so years back was no insulation, most likely wood lathes (possibly expanded metal, yet, not nearly as likely) and a standard 3 coat plaster with most likely a rough texture finish with the lime coat and multiple layers of paint. Am I right, so far? Over 100 years things move slightly and cracks developed. These cracks were addressed, yet not the plaster under the paint where most bonds are begininng to seperate. To add to this, I use to plaster and drywall back in the day, Unical (same for any brand of skim coat plaster) doesn't even adhere well to freshly dried and cured plaster, much less something that was completely cured before my father was born. In the late 1980's I did a lot of these homes in Southern New Hampshire and North East Mass. Believe me when I tell you that there exist only two methods for ensuring that you have a lasting and crack free wall surface. One is to completely remove the old lathes and plaster, insulate and redo with either drywall or plaster. The second is to mark each stud on the walls to be done, remove any trim, light covers or cabinets etc. hang either 1/4" or 3/8" (depending on which one is available) and drywall over the plaster. Because the plaster remains, you can get a very firm wall with thinner sheets, and I have done this with some very highend homes with great results. Many claim that it is enough to simply fill even more if the cracks are taped, but the plaster is not merely cracked. It is also seperating from the lathes and simply breaking down. When yo finish sanding the dryway you will need to fur out around each door and window to account for the thickness of the drywall. You know how some of that all trim is fairly structural? It often acted as a surface to plaster down to and head board would cover the place where the plaster met the trim. I had a costumer Amesbury, MA that would remove what trim he wanted removed, hang over the existing plaster and call me to finish the drywall. He didn't even remove the window trim. He wanted me to simply tape up yo the window case. Most places that I did drilled a series of holes near the top of the wall (generally between each stud and either blow or inject insulation. Of course that was usually followed by, "Bob, could you patch a few holes?" My point is that old plaster that is cracking is also seperating from the lathes. Merely repairing the crack will not solve the problem, even if it is taped, which is absolutely necessary

[farmerted]

Originally Posted by Bob Huntress

If he simply skim coated over aged cracked plaster, expect the paint and the skim coat to start seperating over time. Correct me where my assumptions are false. The original job over a hundred or so years back was no insulation, most likely wood lathes (possibly expanded metal, yet, not nearly as likely) and a standard 3 coat plaster with most likely a rough texture finish with the lime coat and multiple layers of paint. Am I right, so far? Over 100 years things move slightly and cracks developed. These cracks were addressed, yet not the plaster under the paint where most bonds are begininng to seperate. To add to this, I use to plaster and drywall back in the day, Unical (same for any brand of skim coat plaster) doesn't even adhere well to freshly dried and cured plaster, much less something that was completely cured before my father was born. In the late 1980's I did a lot of these homes in Southern New Hampshire and North East Mass. Believe me when I tell you that there exist only two methods for ensuring that you have a lasting and crack free wall surface. One is to completely remove the old lathes and plaster, insulate and redo with either drywall or plaster. The second is to mark each stud on the walls to be done, remove any trim, light covers or cabinets etc. hang either 1/4" or 3/8" (depending on which one is available) and drywall over the plaster. Because the plaster remains, you can get a very firm wall with thinner sheets, and I have done this with some very highend homes with great results. Many claim that it is enough to simply fill even more if the cracks are taped, but the plaster is not merely cracked. It is also seperating from the lathes and simply breaking down. When yo finish sanding the dryway you will need to fur out around each door and window to account for the thickness of the drywall. You know how some of that all trim is fairly structural? It often acted as a surface to plaster down to and head board would cover the place where the plaster met the trim. I had a costumer Amesbury, MA that would remove what trim he wanted removed, hang over the existing plaster and call me to finish the drywall. He didn't even remove the window trim. He wanted me to simply tape up yo the window case. Most places that I did drilled a series of holes near the top of the wall (generally between each stud and either blow or inject insulation. Of course that was usually followed by, "Bob, could you patch a few holes?" My point is that old plaster that is cracking is also seperating from the lathes. Merely repairing the crack will not solve the problem, even if it is taped, which is absolutely necessary

I disagree, there is new plaster repairing you can use, this is no longer the late 80s. I fix cracks all the time and have for a long time, since 97, nobody ever calls me back to fix what I have already fixed, ever.

Plaster houses don't need insulation, air is a perfectly fine insulator, some caulk will help on the heating bills, but what you suggest is overkill. One sheet of drywall cost $9, do a whole house, you are talking thousands of dollars if it is installed by a professional. Plus the insulation, might as well tear it down to the bones and redo it all. Dude could have done it properly if he knew what he was doing, which I suspect he did not. I am guessing he used regular premixed drywall mud from a 5 gallon bucket.

This is what he should have used http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-easy-sa...-compound.html Dries hard as a rock, but you have to make on tray at a time.

Plaster homes are fine, I would never live in one, but there is nothing inherently wrong with them.

[Bob Huntress]

A hundred years ago they didn't have the insulation we do today. For it's time, they did the best they could. To be honest, some builders did understand the need to insulate, because on many homes the walls were stuffed with papers, leaves and assorted other stuff. I have actually found movie posters for Wings in one house, and an awfull lot of Klan stuff in another one.

Sometimes more often with rock lathe, which is a newer 2 coat plaster, a crack doesn't indicate that the plaster is also seperating from the lathe, but usually, especially with 3 coat plaster (wood lathes) if you are getting cracks, and double so if you're getting lots of crack, your plaster is no longer reliably bonded to the lathe. Back in the day, I did the drywall for the old Brown Manor in Ipswich, MA. The local historical society had no problem with putting drywall up and taking out the lathe and plaster. Of all the issues they had with allowing the building of very considerable age, and they had many, it wasn't the drywall. They sought a relief from fire doors, but not drywall. BTW. I also am able to run a smooth 2 or 3 coat plaster, as well. I have my trowels and felts and some of my compasses for doing ornimental ceilings. My advice to remove or hang over is not based on not being able to do a good, solid and smooth plaster job. The insulation is a valuable upgrade to and old house. If asbestos is the issue, as I said, you can hang thinner drywall over the plaster.

[wharton]

Originally Posted by farmerted

Plaster houses don't need insulation, air is a perfectly fine insulator, some caulk will help on the heating bills, but what you suggest is overkill. wrong with them.

After three decades in the building trades, this may be one of the most ridiclous claims I have read yet. Given that a great deal of plastered homes are located in northern areas, where heating costs are horrendous, and that a properly retrofitted home can reduce those costs by 70%, or more, claiming that there is no need for insulation sounds like something you would read 50 years ago, when we just didn't know any better. You may be exceptional at repairing old plaster, but the fact is that walls with a broken bond (keys) to wood lath, isn't going to be magically cured, and remain crack free, no matter how well you skim coat it. I know of several clients who just got tired of continual repairs and either stripped everything back to studs, or re-rocked with thin board, after decades of failed patch work.

[farmerted]

Originally Posted by wharton

After three decades in the building trades, this may be one of the most ridiclous claims I have read yet. .

Not ridiculous http://bobyapp.com/blog/2009/06/myth...ld-house-walls Mr Yelly. I didn't say it was ideal, I said it was fine. If your house is properly sealed it should be fine. If you read that link you will see the problems with insulating old homes as you suggest, MOLD, which is way worse than a drafty home.

It is not the plaster that is cracking, it is the paint.

[farmerted]

Originally Posted by Bob Huntress

A hundred years ago they didn't have the insulation we do today. For it's time, they did the best they could. To be honest, some builders did understand the need to insulate, because on many homes the walls were stuffed with papers, leaves and assorted other stuff. I have actually found movie posters for Wings in one house, and an awfull lot of Klan stuff in another one.

Sometimes more often with rock lathe, which is a newer 2 coat plaster, a crack doesn't indicate that the plaster is also seperating from the lathe, but usually, especially with 3 coat plaster (wood lathes) if you are getting cracks, and double so if you're getting lots of crack, your plaster is no longer reliably bonded to the lathe. Back in the day, I did the drywall for the old Brown Manor in Ipswich, MA. The local historical society had no problem with putting drywall up and taking out the lathe and plaster. Of all the issues they had with allowing the building of very considerable age, and they had many, it wasn't the drywall. They sought a relief from fire doors, but not drywall. BTW. I also am able to run a smooth 2 or 3 coat plaster, as well. I have my trowels and felts and some of my compasses for doing ornimental ceilings. My advice to remove or hang over is not based on not being able to do a good, solid and smooth plaster job. The insulation is a valuable upgrade to and old house. If asbestos is the issue, as I said, you can hang thinner drywall over the plaster.

The original poster said they paid A Lot of money to get this painting done and your suggestion is to either tear all of it out or cover it all up? Either of these would cost waaaaaay more than painting. Insulating it all would cost a bunch of money too and only save maybe $200 a month in the winter, to get that money back would takes years and years.

[luvrulz]

And you know, your neighbor should want to also protect the relationship between you 2.....if he won't fix it, you have a leg to stand on!

[farmerted]

Originally Posted by farmerted

Not ridiculous http://bobyapp.com/blog/2009/06/myth...ld-house-walls Mr Yelly. I didn't say it was ideal, I said it was fine. If your house is properly sealed it should be fine. If you read that link you will see the problems with insulating old homes as you suggest, MOLD, which is way worse than a drafty home.

It is not the plaster that is cracking, it is the paint.

from the article "I've inspected thousands of old houses with blown-in insulation and over 80% of them have this wet insulation problem.

If your house is drafty then tighten it up. Weather-strip your windows and doors, keep the house painted/caulked well, insulate the attic and box sills. This will stop the air infiltration, make you more comfortable and really save money on utilities. "

[Woodpecker]

Thanks all for the replies. I wish I had done the thin drywall in the first place it would have caused me a lot less heartache. I just didn't have the money. I say heartache because my great grandfather built the house and I am trying to restore it. Now I have a mess.

[Molly Mckee]

Is the house heated? Was the house damaged at all during Sandy, or was the heat off due to the storm?

[Woodpecker]

Originally Posted by Molly Mckee

Is the house heated? Was the house damaged at all during Sandy, or was the heat off due to the storm?

The heat was off for quite some time after Sandy. I have heat now of course.

ETA: Thankfully the house was not damaged by Sandy. I just lost electric for a week or so.

[SkagitBrooms]

If paint is blistering & peeling, you have an adhesion problem. Paint is like glue... needs to stick to the surface it is applied to. Bubbling occurs when the surface is dirty with a film of oil, smoke, dust etc. Or if the surface isn't properly primed. Sometimes the paint is applied too heavily & skins over. The paint inside can't dry properly, then peels.

I'm not a contractor, but I was in paint sales & trained to troubleshoot. A good paint job is all about adhesion.

Good luck.