Only organic farmers use crop rotation?

farmerDale · #1 01/08/13, 01:53 PM

Back with another mystical idea, which needs clarifying. From a conventional farmers perspective.

So I have read on here many times, and seen on links posted, in videos, etc., that "organic farmers use crop rotations to increase productivity."

Sure they do. Excellent, great. Sounds superb and everything... But this statement implies conventional farmers do not follow any type of rotation, and grow the same crop every year on the same land. Nothing could be further from the truth, particularly in western Canada.

Because of Canada's generally low subsidization of its farmers, these farmers have had to look for alternative crops to grow, to remain profitable. Western Canadian research is huge in new crop alternatives. Rather than only concentrating on the tried and true, plant breeders are constantly on the hunt for new and well adapted crops for specific growing areas. Some have been stellar successes, like canaryseed, mustard, canola, chickpea, and lentil. Others have flopped, like some of the spice crops, camelina, lupins, etc..

I have grown on my farm, Winter wheat, spring wheat, fall rye, grass, alfalfa, sweet clover, canola, rapeseed, mustard, flax, canaryseed, field peas, faba beans, oats, barley, linola, dry beans, sunflowers, lentils, buckwheat, among a few others.

As far as rotating crops, my farm never has repeat similar crops. In other words, a cereal is never followed by a cereal, and a pulse, oilseed, etc. is never followed by the same crop let alone even a related crop. My rotation is a basic, broadleaf/cereal/broadleaf/cereal. Like a soy corn rotation, but with many selections to choose from. The reason is to control pests like insects and diseases without relying on chemicals, as well as keeping weeds off balance, the soil healthy and diverse. I rarely spray for disease, and have sprayed for insects once in my 20 year career as a farmer.

Just another gray area explained to those who feel we conventional farmers do not follow a rotation.

Again, I do realize in the corn belt things are different, with really two main crops with a smattering of wheat and hay and such. Hence, weed resistance to certain herbicides become a reality, because if only a couple herbicide families are being used, weeds rapidly adapt and select for the ever present resistant biotypes. Up here, I use as many different herbicide groups as possible, and long crop rotations allow for this. There are no herbicide tolerant weeds on my farm, and due to the crop rotation, there hopefully will never be any. I simply can not afford it.

For me, the more crops the merrier. My soil, my bottom line depends on it.

Thanks for putting up with my sharing...The prior thread regarding herbicide use was a positive thing. Questions were asked, and things were very civil. It is great to be able to have good dialogue on this kind of thing. Consumers deserve to know as much as they ask to know, and more.

PrettyPaisley · #2 01/08/13, 02:22 PM

I've not lived out here long but I've seen plenty of crop rotation in the fields I pass. About the only thing that has been consistent, though, are those super large pieces of equiptment with long reaching type "arms" spraying chemicals. Regardless of the crop, that piece of machinery seems to be one that fits them all.

farmerDale · #3 01/08/13, 03:06 PM

Yes, the sprayers. Also known as high clearance sprayers. They have sure come a long way in the last few years. They are equipped with gps, and automatic boom shut off now, so that you don't have to steer and guess where you have been before. This eliminates overlap, so that the application is exact and uniform. Hence the accuracy is unbelieveable. Also, in wedge shaped fields, the booms automatically shut off nozzles that cross into land that was already sprayed, thereby eliminating overlap of the pie shaped field nature.

Thankfully, this is better than what my dear old dad used in the old days. He sat upon an open cabbed tractor, sprayed with an ancient pull type sprayer, and dragged an old tire at each end so that he would not strain too much. But still, overlap occurred and it occurred badly. Money was wasted, environmental damage was done from the inaccuracy of these old machines. I am glad that is a thing of the past. Better for my pocketbook, and better for the land...

And the alternative to control weeds, a hoe, would be hard to fathom on a field any bigger than an acre or two. And with uncontrolled weeds, yields would drop dramatically.

Until someone comes up with a better way to control weeds in farmland, than a few grams an acre here and there of herbicide, those sprayers will continue to get better and better equipped to eliminate waste.

Glad you noticed the advent of the high clearance sprayer, a technological, environment saving marvel of human ingenuity. Wish my dad were still here, he was a penny pincher!!! lol

farmerDale · #4 01/08/13, 03:13 PM

Sorry Pretty Paisley, I should have pointed you to my "deadly herbicide" thread. It is a few down, and is meant to be informative for whoever is interested. I thought maybe you would be, as I get to know you better in the forum sense of the word. There was some good practical discussion there...

Cheers

OkieDavid · #5 01/08/13, 05:03 PM

I for one have never considered crop rotation as only applicable to organic farming. Perhaps because row crop farming is fairly common around here and I therefore witness first hand the alternative crops planted. My experience may not be the "norm" though.

kellyst · #6 01/08/13, 06:21 PM

I live in the middle of grain crop fields in Ohio. The farmers here all rotate between corn, soybeans, and winter wheat.

Awnry Abe · #7 01/08/13, 06:30 PM

When is one engaging in the practice of crop rotation? Or, what defines the term? I only see corn and beans year in and year out in the same fields around here. Is that crop rotation?

PrettyPaisley · #8 01/08/13, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerDale

Sorry Pretty Paisley, I should have pointed you to my "deadly herbicide" thread. It is a few down, and is meant to be informative for whoever is interested. I thought maybe you would be, as I get to know you better in the forum sense of the word. There was some good practical discussion there...

Cheers

No need for direction. I read it. Doesn't change all the spraying I see going on.

Discuss away....

Lazy J · #9 01/08/13, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

No need for direction. I read it. Doesn't change all the spraying I see going on.

Discuss away....

Do you know what they are spraying? Could it be a combination of sugar and foliar fertilizer? Is it a herbicide? Are they spraying an insecticide? What Herbicide is in that sprayer?

farmerDale · #10 01/08/13, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrownRanch

When is one engaging in the practice of crop rotation? Or, what defines the term? I only see corn and beans year in and year out in the same fields around here. Is that crop rotation?

Some farmers think two crops is a rotation, heck, I have seen many state they run a corn on corn rotation which is a strange definition of the word crop rotation! That is why I specified that I personally am speaking for western Canada.

farmerDale · #11 01/08/13, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

No need for direction. I read it. Doesn't change all the spraying I see going on.

Discuss away....

Was it informative for you at all, regarding rates of herbicides etc., vs. the weight of the soil. That is my hope, to share information to be discussed. Without looking like a troll.

haypoint · #12 01/08/13, 11:12 PM

I'm just mad. I'm going to cross my arms and stomp my feet no matter what you say.

Lazy J · #13 01/09/13, 08:22 AM

On our farm in Northeast Indiana EVERY acre is in a crop rotation plan. OUr main rotation is Corn-Soybean with some in Corn-Soybean-Wheat. We also have some alfalfa that we rotate, but that is 4 or 5 years of alfalfa followed by Corn-Soy.

We would like to plant more wheat on our farm but the current economics are in favor of corn and soybeans. This year, even with a drought to hurt corn and a great wheat crop, our corn was 60% more profitable than the wheat. This year our soybeans were slightly more profitable than our corn.
We like having other crops in our rotation. It diversifies our income and spreads out the labor needs, but with the current pricing or commodities we will raise more corn and soybeans to improve our farm's profitability.

Jim

Cindy in PA · #14 01/09/13, 08:31 AM

Yep, my favorite farmer rotates crops..........corn/soybeans/corn/soybeans....... This year is soybeans, so I will be able to see the road..................or DH will get his 10 acre inheritance & we'll make a pasture!

Steve L. · #15 01/09/13, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy J

... This year our soybeans were slightly more profitable than our soybeans....

???

sunflower-n-ks · #16 01/09/13, 11:12 AM

I do not plant "crops" on the dab of land I have, but enjoy watching the neighbor. He is a big time cattleman raising thousands of head of cattle on pasture and feed lot. So, besides the pastures, he plants thousands of acres of crops for feed for the cattle. Most is the soy beans - corn rotation, but at least one field I can see has the wheat thrown in. But it is planted just for grazing. The year that corn is on it (cut for silage in july) he then plants wheat. When it is up a ways he puts the cattle on it until it is mostly gone, takes the cattle off and then puts some back on in the spring when the wheat is growing again. Then, when the wheat is mostly gone, the beans are planted. That field is a mile by a half mile and where I can see it easily from my house. The big field across the road was planted the same rotation until recently. now it seems to just be the corn/beans, and a different guy is doing the work.

The work is done with a huge field tractor pulling a 30 foot impliment. I was watching the tractor working one day and noticed when he came around a corner he always stopped for a bit when he had it all straightened out. I read on here about the gps, so assumed he was sitting that?

In regards to the beef shortage predicted because of the droughts the last couple of years - he had a lot more head on that field last fall than any other year and the feed trucks are making a lot more trips past my house each day to feed them in the feed lot. There are a lot on the pastures around here also. Someone out there is producing calves in big numbers.

Kaitlin · #17 01/09/13, 11:19 AM

I thought everyone practised crop rotation. It was invented in the 18th century after all - surely everyone should have caught up by now?

haypoint · #18 01/09/13, 11:28 AM

When I got to the UP 30 years ago, this is what I saw:
Most of the farmers in the eastern UP, use conventional methods. By that I mean like they have farmed for a hundred years. They rotate crops. The rotation goes like this: In the late summer, they plow. The following spring, they disc, spread manure and disc again. Then they plant 80 pounds of oats, 10 pounds of Medium Red Clover, 8 pounds of timothy, 5 pounds of Birdsfoot Trefoil and a pinch of Alsak clover. Then in September, they harvest the oats. If it isn’t too weedy and dry enough, they bail the straw. That seldom happens.
In the next spring, they burn all the straw and dead plant material. In July they harvest hay.
For the next 15 years, they burn the field in the spring and cut hay in July.
Then for the next 10 years, they pasture the field. Except for the Canadian Thistle, it is kept as short as a putting green.
This is followed by a fall plowing and oats and clover are planted the next spring.
Each time the field is fall plowed it is exposed to erosion, mostly during the spring time melting of 100 inches of snow. The soil’s ph is 4.5 and a limestone quarry is 50 miles away. However, lime is seldom if ever applied. Many have found it more economical to farm more acres than apply the soil neutralizing calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate.
Most of the hay is shipped to race tracks in KY and FL.

http://centralmich.craigslist.org/grd/3524833655.html

ET1 SS · #19 01/09/13, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaitlin

I thought everyone practised crop rotation. It was invented in the 18th century after all - surely everyone should have caught up by now?

In the Old Testament of the Bible, Wheat was rotated with Barley.

The Roman Empire seems to have gotten crop rotation from the Greek Empire, who appear to have gotten it from Asia.

Charlemagne was a proponent of transitioning from a two crop rotation to a three crop rotation.

farmerDale · #20 01/09/13, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunflower-n-ks

The work is done with a huge field tractor pulling a 30 foot impliment. I was watching the tractor working one day and noticed when he came around a corner he always stopped for a bit when he had it all straightened out. I read on here about the gps, so assumed he was sitting that?

I do not yet have gps, but I plan to get it at some point soon. The benefits can be tremendous. But no, if he has gps, he should not have to stop each time at the end. If he has gps, and drive by the field you will know it immediately. His path will be PERFECTLY straight. But stopping at the ends, he either was having gps trouble, mechanical trouble etc...