When is a farmer a farmer?

[CesumPec]

I know there have been threads on what is or is not a homesteader. But a comment from a neighbor today got me to thinking, when is a farmer a farmer, or if you prefer, a rancher is a rancher?

HT's own Highlands is definitely a pig farmer in probably most everyone's book. My very opinionated neighbor who raised a couple of pigs several years back and knows everything there is to know about swine and why they should be kept penned on tiny concrete pads thinks he is a pig farmer. Somewhere in between a few hundred swine and 2 feeders a few years ago there is a place where one can reasonably call themselves a farmer.

Same would apply to cattle, chickens, or okra. Is a guy with a few rows of sweet corn for his family a farmer or does he have to sell it at a market garden or run a big enough operation that he needs a combine to bring in his corn.

I'm just curious as to what the general opinion is?

[ErinP]

In my corner of the world, Farmer is used to define a person who makes the bulk of their living selling the products s/he has grown. Usually row crops, often diversified into cattle also.
Rancher, on the other hand, refers to someone who grows cattle, sheep or horses almost exclusively. There is little, if any, farming.

In both cases, the bulk of their living is from the farm or the ranch.

But, again, that's just my part of the world...And these tend to be a common occupations here.

[haypoint]

If you were looking for pig farming advice for your 3 feeder pigs, would you ask the guy down the road that raises 6 pigs a year on concrete, the guy down the road that raises 60,000 feeders in a confinement operation, or would you ask a guy on the internet that says he makes his living with pastured pigs? Each one is an expert in their methods. Which one is a farmer? Everyone's definition is different. For me seeing is believing.

[ksfarmer]

Originally Posted by ErinP

In my corner of the world, Farmer is used to define a person who makes the bulk of their living selling the products s/he has grown. Usually row crops, often diversified into cattle also.
Rancher, on the other hand, refers to someone who grows cattle, sheep or horses almost exclusively. There is little, if any, farming.

In both cases, the bulk of their living is from the farm or the ranch.

But, again, that's just my part of the world...And these tend to be a common occupations here.

Pretty much the same here. Farmer and Rancher tend to overlap a lot because most Cattlemen raise feed for their cattle, thus they are farmers too. There are all sorts of in-between. But I do think , as Erin says , the bulk of their living is from the farm or the ranch, whichever you call it. I used to concider myself a Farmer-Rancher because I did both, for 50 years. Now, I'm retired and think of myself as more of a gardener and sell at a farmers market. Maybe thats still farming. on a smaller scale.

[Bob Huntress]

Haypoint, I would say the one that raises 6 pigs, as his operation most closely faces the same issues as the 3 pig operation. The 60,000 pig operation may have a full time staff that has much more time to do better ideas, and may accept certain loses as part of the game that the 6 pig operation would put more effort to avert. On the surface most would say the 60,000 pig operation would be better, but they will generally have an operation so different from yours that what they recommend will frequently be a waste of money for you to do. The six pig operation would be closest to what you do, and their recommendations would more likely match what would be prudent for yours.

[JJohnson]

For me its simple. Someone who is growing crops or raising livestock for profit. The amount of livestock or crops does not matter. A farmer is a farmer lol

[oneokie]

The official USDA definition is when a person makes 50.001% of their gross income from agricultural sources.

[Ross]

Depends who is asking. Legally here to be a farmer for tax purposes you would have to generate a gross farming income of $7000 and register through a legally recognized farm organisation like the Ontario Federation of Farmers or the Christian Farmers Federation. You do not have to be a member and can request your fees returned.

Realistically "farmer" is not a title like Doctor or such; so pretty much anyone can call themselves that if they wish.

[farmerDale]

For here, being a farmer would be defined as your occupation. If you live on the land, and make your living from a landbase, you would be a farmer. Here, you would not call someone a farmer unless that is all they did.

A farmer is a chemist, a business man, a mechanic, a jack of many trades. He could raise mushrooms on 3 acres, chickens on 10, wheat on 5 000, asparagus on 80. Or any combination thereof, providing his income is from sales of produced products.

How it is here at least. Though in places like Vancouver and such, a farmer is much more loosely defined. Have some cousins out there who think anyone with more than 24 square feet and a chicken are farmers. lol

[||Downhome||]

If you depend on it you raise it your a farmer.
Monetarily or not.
Now legal definitions are something else.
Not all Farmers Operate the same either.

[am1too]

Originally Posted by CesumPec

I know there have been threads on what is or is not a homesteader. But a comment from a neighbor today got me to thinking, when is a farmer a farmer, or if you prefer, a rancher is a rancher?

HT's own Highlands is definitely a pig farmer in probably most everyone's book. My very opinionated neighbor who raised a couple of pigs several years back and knows everything there is to know about swine and why they should be kept penned on tiny concrete pads thinks he is a pig farmer. Somewhere in between a few hundred swine and 2 feeders a few years ago there is a place where one can reasonably call themselves a farmer.

Same would apply to cattle, chickens, or okra. Is a guy with a few rows of sweet corn for his family a farmer or does he have to sell it at a market garden or run a big enough operation that he needs a combine to bring in his corn.

I'm just curious as to what the general opinion is?

What would you call Green Acres? Remember the show? Citiots might call them farmers ans some might call them homesteaders. I call them calimity. I think that is where some get their idea from.

[CaliannG]

I think my opinion most closely aligns with farmerDale. "Farmer" is not a title, or a philosophy, it is a profession, or a job, like "Waitress", "Engineer", "Cashier", "Lawyer", or "Painter".

How many trays of food must a person serve before they can call themselves a "Waitress"? Likewise, how many cases must a person win or lose before they can call themselves a "Lawyer"? Should you have a degree, or a certain number of completed walls, before you can call yourself a "Painter"?

There are successful farmers and ranchers, and there are unsuccessful farmers and ranchers. There are farmers and ranchers that make 100% of their income from their farms and ranches. There are farmers and ranchers who make a sizable amount of their income in either off-farm work, oil royalties from wells on their land, or renting out their equipment as well.

Some farmers do a little ranching. It's amazing what a herd of cattle can do to rejuvenate a field. Cuts down weed regrowth and adds free fertilizer! W00t! Some ranchers do a little farming. Yanno, hay doesn't materialize out of thin air! Around here, most operations also have hay fields, and the ranchers sell off any surplus they have.

[sammyd]

Originally Posted by oneokie

The official USDA definition is when a person makes 50.001% of their gross income from agricultural sources.

False.

A farm is defined as any place from which $1,000 or more of agricultural products were produced and sold, or normally would have been sold, during the year

The farm operator is the person who runs the farm, making the day-to-day management decisions.

There is no definition of "farmer" at
http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-.../glossary.aspx

[highlands]

When is a farmer a farmer?

It's a Zen thing.

You are the farmer you think you are.

That aside:

The USDA's definition is that if you raise or could raise $1,000 or more of food per year.

The IRS's definition is that you make a profit.

The State of Vermont's definition is that you earn more than 50% of your family income from farming.


Be the farmer you want to be.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

[harvestmoonfarm]

Originally Posted by highlands

When is a farmer a farmer?

The IRS's definition is that you make a profit.

Is that even *possible* in farming? We had major losses last year - mostly livestock - but we'll still file our Schedule F with the IRS. Most people will tell you that a profit in the first few years of farming is a pipe dream.

[Maverick_mg]

I was "farming" for a while before I ever called myself a farmer. When I looked at what my mentors were doing with their 1,000-5,000 acres and compared that to my 1/2 acre plot, it seemed silly to say I was a farmer and around here, it would have been viewed as disrespectful.
So what changed that I now call myself a farmer? Well, I provide a service now to the community and I farm full time. I have a CSA, go to the farmers markets to sell, I sell to chefs and restaurants and I grown in all 4 seasons. So now that it's something I'm doing for a profession, I'm okay with saying I'm a farmer.

[arnie]

depends on what crowd yer talkin to .:} but I calling a perso who makes most of there living farming a farmer with words added like truck,pig 'chicken and wheat .the tax man uses this method I think. then theres the hobby farmer ;the sustanace farmer ;the Gentilman farmer . or droping the farmer usallymeans smaller like homesteder,or gardener,and of corse the hillside farmers (usally poor) the river bottom farmer (usally rich) rock farmer (I Can really feel for this guy) . what ever the title working the land feeding the world or just a canning garden the title of farmer is one that is hard to ern and is more honorable than many (like politition or carpet bagger)

[countrysunshine]

I know a lot of farmers that do not make 50% of their family's income from farming but they do spend more time working at farming than they would at an outside job.

I know nothing about ranchers. I know about grain, hog, dairy and cattle farmers. They work sun up to past sun down. Since they sell their product they are always watching the markets. They are generally part veterinarian, part mechanic, part construction worker, part business analyst and mostly dependable people.

I married one thirty years ago next month. At our peak we were farming 1200 acres and had 50 head of cattle and a half dozen feeder pigs for our own use. Small scale and required full time outside jobs but we were definitely farmers.

[Callieslamb]

I'm more into letting people define themselves. If they think of themselves as a farmer with a few rows of corn - why not? If they consider themselves a pig farmer - with or without the concrete pads...what is it to me? If they think of themselves as such, then it's obviously an important part of who they are. Let them go to it.

[haypoint]

World of Cow has the answer.