Homesteading in Mountain Soil

harvestmoonfarm · #1 12/23/12, 07:10 PM

We have to leave the farm we're currently renting because the owner is putting it up for sale in the spring. We have 64 acres here, and most of it (all but about 10 acres) is beautiful pasture land. We went and looked at a place in the mountains today (we're in VA) that's six acres and is very, very rocky (typical mountain soil). Does anyone else here live in the mountains and, if so, how do you deal with the rocky soil when gardening? We know we're going to have to stock up on hay next year (this year we got 800+ bales off of this property, and that was with about 1200 bales lost to rain pre-baling). Any tips, advice, suggestions are much appreciated.

Alice In TX/MO · #2 12/23/12, 07:18 PM

I garden in the Ozarks in the summers. I built raised beds. It wasn't worth it to try to garden in soil that grows rocks.

OkieDavid · #3 12/23/12, 07:22 PM

Typical mountain soil is low in fertility and too rocky. This means raised bed gardening or container gardening is the order of the day.

Bob Huntress · #4 12/23/12, 07:35 PM

Soil nutrients tend to flow down the mountain into the valley. That said, it isn't absolute that you can't garden in the mountains. When I was young, I attended a boarding school that taught gardening in the mountains of TN. They had corn fields and all the plants you would find in the valley in fields not raised boxes. The season starts later than in the valley, and ends sooner. Rocky mountains that go far higher have serious issues with gardening. If you are above what we call the, "Pine Line", where the only trees that will grow are pine, gardening becomes a big problem. How far up the mountain is your place, and do you have flat level land on the property?

harvestmoonfarm · #5 12/23/12, 07:50 PM

The elevation is only 1266 ft. The owner used his American Guinea Hogs to till the soil (he doesn't own a tiller) and had awesome production this year. The wife told me this was what they harvested every three days.

Big Dave · #6 12/23/12, 08:09 PM

Live on Back bone ridge, named that for a reason. The rocks. I have terraces and use wood chips. Why is it you do not buy where you are?

harvestmoonfarm · #7 12/23/12, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Live on Back bone ridge, named that for a reason. The rocks. I have terraces and use wood chips. Why is it you do not buy where you are?

We can't afford $525,000, which is what she's asking for the place when it goes up for sale. She says she can't accept less.

Common Tator · #8 12/23/12, 08:50 PM

Our mountain ranch was used in its native state to graze cattle for decades. Then 100 years ago three sections were terraced. Rocks and boulders moved out of the way, and an apple orchard planted.

Those spectacular old trees are still thriving. We operate it as a You-Pick operation.

Www.stetsoncreekranch.com

copperkid3 · #9 12/23/12, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvestmoonfarm

We can't afford $525,000, which is what she's asking for the place when it goes up for sale. She says she can't accept less.

* * * * * * * * *
and what she eventually 'accepts' is entirely different matter.

But based on what your neighbor harvested, I don't think you will

have any problems with getting a good crop on the moutain soil.

dkhern · #10 12/23/12, 09:37 PM

kinda sorta figure if they can grow that with advice and simular techniques you can too

OkieDavid · #11 12/23/12, 11:06 PM

Yea, forget what I said about soil fertility. With harvest/variety like that you're not going to have any problem gardening up on that hill.......

**Shrek** · #12 12/23/12, 11:25 PM

I bought a cheap rocky plot with a pond in Tennessee to take my camper to as one of my summer getaway locations and ended up using it as raised beds and worm farm to garden and recoup my investment before selling to the guy I partnered with on the worm farm so he could build his house on the used to be rock but got worm turned to good topsoil when I decided to get out of the bait business and let him do with it as he chose.

mountainlaurel · #13 12/24/12, 05:41 AM

You have a bunch of kids and every spring you make them pick up rocks after you disc up the garden. Then you add plenty of chicken litter and disc again, then you pick up rocks again. This goes on until your kids grow up and they revolt and it's just you and dh picking up rocks every spring before you can plant.

So you find someone else who has a bunch of kids that needs working and you get them to help you pick up rocks. ONLY you have to pay these kids cause they won't work for food and board at your house. They get that at home.

It's been 25 years of this. There is less rock and now we are on less people. Gardening for two should be a lot less work.

harvestmoonfarm · #14 12/24/12, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainlaurel

You have a bunch of kids and every spring you make them pick up rocks after you disc up the garden. Then you add plenty of chicken litter and disc again, then you pick up rocks again. This goes on until your kids grow up and they revolt and it's just you and dh picking up rocks every spring before you can plant.

So you find someone else who has a bunch of kids that needs working and you get them to help you pick up rocks. ONLY you have to pay these kids cause they won't work for food and board at your house. They get that at home.

It's been 25 years of this. There is less rock and now we are on less people. Gardening for two should be a lot less work.

Mine are all grown, but 2 still live at home. The threat of no more free room and board works pretty well to get them to do what we need

uncle Will in In. · #15 12/24/12, 07:38 AM

I talked to a man living in the mountains. He said his main crop was potatoes. He said they planted the rows up and down the mountain side. When it came time to dig them, they just opened up the bottom of the row, and the potatoes all came rollong out!

**highlands** · #16 12/24/12, 07:46 AM

We live on a northern mountain. The soil is thin, shallow, gravelly and rocky. The land is steep.

Our solution is to terrace so as to stop the soil from being washed off and to catch the rain so it soaks in rather than washing down he slopes. We also built a lot of small ponds. This creates micro-climates. To augment the fertility of the soil we planted legumes such as clovers and alfalfa which suck nitrogen out of the air - free fertilizer.

We also raise livestock on pasture. Pasturing animals is a good use for our steep, rocky land and the livestock improve the fertility of the soil since about 80% of what they eat passes through them and enriches the soil with their manure and urine. Using managed rotational grazing is key.

We buy in winter hay since our land is not conducive to haying. That has the benefit of importing nutrients to our land.

Over the years our soils have gradually improved. It's a slow process doing it this way but a lot cheaper than buying bottom land or dumping in loads of artificial fertilizers and the results are better. After about two decades of this we have many acres that are now rich dark loamy soils which make great gardens and the fields are much better than when we got here about 25 years ago.

Summary:
Terracing
Animals
Water management
Legumes

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

mountainlaurel · #17 12/24/12, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvestmoonfarm

Mine are all grown, but 2 still live at home. The threat of no more free room and board works pretty well to get them to do what we need

Our 4 are grown but 2 still live at home. They will help if they're around, my son helped run the tractor when it came time to plow up the taters this fall. But they both work 2 jobs and you can't count on them being there when it's time to work in the garden. So we got 2 neighbor boys to help plant this year.

We threaten our 2 as well but we find out that if they want something from either me or dh, then they have to work for us to get it.

Nimrod · #18 12/24/12, 09:57 AM

You need to grow the cube shaped watermellon so they don't roll down into the valley.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1390088.stm

Silvercreek Farmer · #19 12/24/12, 11:26 AM

Make sure you do not overstock your new place when you downsize. Any soil you have can be washed away in a hurry on steep land if it gets overgrazed. I'd start with no more than about 500 lbs of stock per acre and be ready to reduce that if need be. Also have a place where you can get your stock off the steeper land if it gets too wet and soft. All those rocks actually help hold the soil in place on a hillside so don't be too eager to pull them out, but any sticking up will make haying nearly impossible, so I wouldn't plan on it.

Be careful with the tractor on hills too, make sure you have ROPS and use the lapbelt, designate the areas of your property that are too steep to use the tractor on and set rules for the family not to even try, no matter what.

Try to put your garden on somewhat level land if you can. I wouldn't try to kill yourself getting all the rocks out, just get the big ones out, then build the soil up from there with the Ruth Stout method, in a few years you will be planting in beautiful black soil and all the rocks will be out of the way over a foot down.

harvestmoonfarm · #20 12/24/12, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvercreek Farmer

Make sure you do not overstock your new place when you downsize. Any soil you have can be washed away in a hurry on steep land if it gets overgrazed. I'd start with no more than about 500 lbs of stock per acre and be ready to reduce that if need be. Also have a place where you can get your stock off the steeper land if it gets too wet and soft. All those rocks actually help hold the soil in place on a hillside so don't be too eager to pull them out, but any sticking up will make haying nearly impossible, so I wouldn't plan on it.

Be careful with the tractor on hills too, make sure you have ROPS and use the lapbelt, designate the areas of your property that are too steep to use the tractor on and set rules for the family not to even try, no matter what.

Try to put your garden on somewhat level land if you can. I wouldn't try to kill yourself getting all the rocks out, just get the big ones out, then build the soil up from there with the Ruth Stout method, in a few years you will be planting in beautiful black soil and all the rocks will be out of the way over a foot down.

Thanks. It's actually not terribly steep, and there's no hope of any type of "pasture" since most of it is still wooded and/or has rocks and stumps. One nice thing is that there are wild raspberries everywhere, but they had become severely overgrown prior to the owners buying the place, so they've been using their goats to help do a lot of clearing. The only livestock I have are goats, American Guinea Hogs and chickens, which should all thrive there.