Would You Want To Hear Bad About Your Property?

big rockpile · #1 11/04/12, 07:37 PM

Ok a couple at our Church bought a Mill we use to go to get our Treated Lumber about half the place has had Creosote on it.

They are planing on Farming it and we really don't think they understand what they are dealing with.They think they got the place cheap because there was no Electric or Running Water in the House.

Would you talk it over with them?

big rockpile

farminghandyman · #2 11/04/12, 07:55 PM

If they all ready bought it, what can be changed now,

If they have not bought it, or finished the paper work, then you may be able to guide them, but they may think your trying to get the land out from under them.

kinda sounds like they and you are between a rock and a hard spot.

Annsni · #3 11/04/12, 07:55 PM

Yeah, I would let them know. Ignorance isn't bliss and they need to know any issues that may go on with their property. What they do with the info is their choice but I'd speak to them as a friend with some "inside" info and then let it go.

big rockpile · #4 11/04/12, 08:16 PM

Well they've had the property a year and you would think they would know but I'm thinking they know there was a Saw Mill there just don't know about the Chemicals.The Guys Tank was by their Barn and he would empty it into a dirt pit just behind it.

I had no idea who bought it until they wanted to be Baptized on their property a couple months ago.

big rockpile

Alice In TX/MO · #5 11/04/12, 08:17 PM

It's a health hazard and very likely an EPA violation and they may be able to get their money back if the situation wasn't disclosed at the sale.

Yes, I'd tell them.

RedDirt Cowgirl · #6 11/04/12, 08:37 PM

They need to address their rights now. Wouldn't you want to know? And how would you feel when problems turn up because they didn't know. Also, it's likely they will find out later anyway, and then you'd need to justify why you didn't say anything in time.

geo in mi · #7 11/05/12, 01:59 PM

Creosote has been treated as a hazardous material since about 2002, so, unless the former owner was just outright unscroupulous, I would not go down to the new neighbor "telling tales". Also, treated lumber has changed, to lessen the arsenic content--in fact, treated lumber at that place, tanks included, may have been permitted, and cleanup may not have been what you assume was "dumping into a pit". As mentioned by others, a full disclosure is required on all real estate transactions---but that doesn't mean the former owner was honest--or, more likely, the chemicals were disclosed with qualifications, such as, "cleaned up in accordance with EPA rulings". Even so, the new buyer may have accepted it with full knowlege of the copndition. The property, may have been listed "as is", giving the buyer no recourse if any materials left after an acceptable cleanup was made.

So, if it were me, I wouldn't go down there loaded for bear---I would not meddle in a situation where I didn't have full knowlege. My opinion....(which you asked for, "Would you talk it over with them?")

geo

Darren · #8 11/05/12, 02:30 PM

They'll thank you later if they bought an environmental problem. Of course that's going to be a bombshell. Remember the messinger always gets killed. At a minimum they can take measures to protect their health.

Some states are creating maps of businesses using old directories and aerial photos to look for potential environmental issues. One city is cataloging sites from the early 1900s. Locally the state DEP forced an owner to close a sawmill simply because sawdust might get into a stream.

If a problem surfaces later and they have to pay for the cleanup, it won't be cheap. It's hard to tell what may happen over time, if chemicals got into the water table.

Warwalk · #9 11/05/12, 02:39 PM

i would tell them. Definitely. 110%. But, broach it in a way such as to not knock them off their feet. Explain what you suspect, why you suspect it, perhaps show them evidence in some form (or tell them to simply google creosote or check w/ such and such county extension). It's possible they'll say they did indeed hear about it but they're just wanting the land for looks, or their jaws could drop and they thank you tremendously. Or ~ they give you a smarmy smile, thinking you're wanting their prime piece of property, and don't do anything. Honestly, what they do isn't so important. It's that you feel better for at least warning them and giving them the heads up on the situation.

copperkid3 · #10 11/05/12, 03:50 PM

The real question that needs to be addressed first, is to put yourself

in their shoes and if someone 'else' knew something about your property

that could be harmful to themselves or their loved ones,

would you REALLY

not consider passing on the information?

If nothing else gets done, take a review of the following link

related to the carcenogentic effects of creosote exposure.

Creosote Exposure and Health Effects

meanwhile · #11 11/06/12, 10:47 AM

Yes, I would want someone to tell me.

Bandit · #12 11/06/12, 07:47 PM

My first thought is that if the EPA gets wind of it .
WHO WILL PAY to clean it up ?
If there the owners now , they will

big rockpile · #13 11/06/12, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geo in mi

Creosote has been treated as a hazardous material since about 2002, so, unless the former owner was just outright unscroupulous, I would not go down to the new neighbor "telling tales". Also, treated lumber has changed, to lessen the arsenic content--in fact, treated lumber at that place, tanks included, may have been permitted, and cleanup may not have been what you assume was "dumping into a pit". As mentioned by others, a full disclosure is required on all real estate transactions---but that doesn't mean the former owner was honest--or, more likely, the chemicals were disclosed with qualifications, such as, "cleaned up in accordance with EPA rulings". Even so, the new buyer may have accepted it with full knowlege of the copndition. The property, may have been listed "as is", giving the buyer no recourse if any materials left after an acceptable cleanup was made.

So, if it were me, I wouldn't go down there loaded for bear---I would not meddle in a situation where I didn't have full knowlege. My opinion....(which you asked for, "Would you talk it over with them?")

geo

It was a Mennonite place I knew his whole family for years.

big rockpile

fordy · #14 11/06/12, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big rockpile

Ok a couple at our Church bought a Mill we use to go to get our Treated Lumber about half the place has had Creosote on it.

They are planing on Farming it and we really don't think they understand what they are dealing with.They think they got the place cheap because there was no Electric or Running Water in the House.

Would you talk it over with them?

big rockpile

.................DEFINITELY not ! It's a done deal , telling him after the fact will only make him feel bad about his decision ! , fordy

Use Less · #15 11/07/12, 08:15 AM

A tough call. I think I would like someone to tell me if I was the buyer, but I'd like to hope I had due-diligence done before I signed my name. What sort of relationship do you have or hope to have with them? They may be angry with you if they really bought a pig-in-a-poke. Until someone makes a complaint, it is what it is. But if they farm and then send (toxic?) produce to market or animals, that would be an additional really bad thing. Sue

Michael W. Smith · #16 11/07/12, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big rockpile

. . . but I'm thinking they know there was a Saw Mill there just don't know about the Chemicals.The Guys Tank was by their Barn and he would empty it into a dirt pit just behind it.
big rockpile

So you KNEW the previous owners were poisoning their land - and you did nothing about it. Now you want to tell the new owners about a problem that you knew about and did nothing about it?

Would you tell these people if you didn't know them and they were coming to your church?

It's not your business.

simi-steading · #17 11/07/12, 12:46 PM

I think it would be one thing if you mentioned there was a saw mill there. I think it would be a whole 'nother if you start saying it was polluted and the land was unusable...

I agree with Geo in MI.. Do you know the full story? Do you know if the land was cleaned or not? Do you know for sure what was being dumped?

Cresote is black. Is the ground all black and nothing growing on it? If it is, then the new owner would have noticed.. If it's not, then that probably means it's not full of creosote..

Some times, it's better to not notice you have a problem from a previous owner on your land, than risk becoming a superfund, and just work around what you have to. Especially if you never plan to sell the land yourself.

Jim S. · #18 11/07/12, 05:42 PM

Whatever you say, they will ignore, and may dislike you for it. This is a case where they will learn by experience, no matter what is said or unsaid. If you value their friendship, leave it unsaid.