A living on the land mental exercise

[deaconjim]

I know this has probably been done a few times on the Survival forum, buto I think it would be good to discuss here as well. Here is the scenario:

You, your spouse and two pre-teen children are going to be living in a small clearing on secluded wooded land in tents. It is early spring in a region with moderate winters (snow part of the winter, temps down to single digit negatives). You have clean spring water available, and the nearest town is 15miles away. You have an axe, hand tools (no power tools), hunting rifle and ammo, and some fishing gear (there is a nearby pond). Income from a night-shift job in town (the only job available) is limited to just enough to pay for necessities (being very frugal) with a little left over.

What kind of setup would you try to have (sleeping quarters, food storage and cooking area, sanitation facilities, etc.), and how would you approach building more permanent shelter for the winter (if at all)?

[meanwhile]

I would probably put the children to picking up firewood and stacking it in between trees. That would at least get something done while we were thinking about what to do next.

Also pick up rocks and put in a stack. Rocks can be used to build a fire pit, later for a house, build a good wood stove, etc. So -I would get the kids to help pick up rocks.

Dig a hole for Out House or at least have an area away from water source.

And I would figure out where is the dump or any place I would be able to pick up things for Free. Anything at all for free. Collect cardboard boxes or newspaper to use for insulation. Collect free bottles to use in wall building or for lights in the roof.

Wow - just too much to write about. I would just get busy and start saving and collecting anything I could use - all the while thinking about what to do next.

[ErinP]

Honestly I don't know what I would do on "wooded land."
That's not my natural environment... I simply don't think in terms of what to do with trees, other than burn the deadfall cottonwoods you find in the creeks and river bottoms.

OTOH, because I'm a prairie kid, my first thought for shelter would be to dig a dug-out into a hillside. So, having shelter and all those trees to burn, we'd be pretty well set.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by meanwhile

I would probably put the children to picking up firewood and stacking it in between trees. That would at least get something done while we were thinking about what to do next.

Also pick up rocks and put in a stack. Rocks can be used to build a fire pit, later for a house, build a good wood stove, etc. So -I would get the kids to help pick up rocks.

Dig a hole for Out House or at least have an area away from water source.

And I would figure out where is the dump or any place I would be able to pick up things for Free. Anything at all for free. Collect cardboard boxes or newspaper to use for insulation. Collect free bottles to use in wall building or for lights in the roof.

Wow - just too much to write about. I would just get busy and start saving and collecting anything I could use - all the while thinking about what to do next.

To early in Spring to dig the pit, I fear. Time for a sawdust ( or wood ash) toilet.

I don't know much about it, but building a springhouse seems like a good challenge, and smoking any fish and meat harvested in the meantime.

Growing some kale and spinach in a styrofoam or more permanent cooler wood be in order. I would order some Thorne's Multi Vitamins and produce sprouts in an old mayo jar.

I like the firewood between the trees. I might have to try that here.

[Maura]

I would use a teepee or yurt instead of tents. They are designed to withstand strong winds and empty the smoke outside. If you are writing a story of life in the past, the family may not know about yurts, but they would know what a teepee is. Collecting fire wood during the summer shows forethought and is much easier than doing it after the snow falls. Read the early Little House books. Pa and his brother make a smokehouse out of a hollow tree, I remember.

You'll need a library card.

[PhilJohnson]

Interesting scenario, I'll bite. I actually had an experience very close to your scenario except I had no kids/spouse, and a day time job. I had a mostly wooded 5 acre lot, and I started out in early spring. There was still some frost in the ground. No spring on the property but there was one fairly close. I had no powered tools at the time.

If you have a job you need to keep clean, no doubt kids need to be clean too lest CPS gets a whiff of what is going on. And I'd imagine my imaginary wife would like to keep clean too I just used a bucket and a 55 gallon drum with a hand pump to bath with when I lived out on the land. But in your scenario I'd build a small out door shower out of old pallets and what ever I could find to cover up the slats. It would be on a raised platform, probably another old pallet. I used old anti-freeze bottles because they were black and warmed up the water nice when I wanted to take a shower. I'd poke some holes in the cap for a red neck shower head. So getting clean would be my first priority.

Second thing would be some sort of outhouse. Pretty self-explanatory there. Just don't be a dummy and put it near the spring.

Tents are lousy. I hate rolling over in my sleep into a sopping wet tent wall. Nothing wears on someone's nerves like not having a decent shelter, with young kids and a wife getting out of those tents would be job number one. First thing I did was built a simple structure on my land. I built it out of pallets and tin. All the materials were salvaged. If I were to do it again I would have just cut down logs and made a small cabin. It would have been sturdier. I got lucky later and stumbled upon a free mobile home in good repair. I would have had to re-do the shack or built a better building had I not gotten that mobile home. I would also be going on the internet at a library and scouring craigslist for cheap or free building supplies.

I also would buy a couple of deep cycle batteries for the car. Then I'd buy a cheap inverter so I could run some electric lights and some small appliances at home. That is what I did myself and it worked fairly decent until I got some solar panels.

I have a few other ideas kicking around, I'll post about those later.

[deaconjim]

Originally Posted by PhilJohnson

Interesting scenario, I'll bite. I actually had an experience very close to your scenario except I had no kids/spouse, and a day time job. I had a mostly wooded 5 acre lot, and I started out in early spring. There was still some frost in the ground. No spring on the property but there was one fairly close. I had no powered tools at the time.

If you have a job you need to keep clean, no doubt kids need to be clean too lest CPS gets a whiff of what is going on. And I'd imagine my imaginary wife would like to keep clean too I just used a bucket and a 55 gallon drum with a hand pump to bath with when I lived out on the land. But in your scenario I'd build a small out door shower out of old pallets and what ever I could find to cover up the slats. It would be on a raised platform, probably another old pallet. I used old anti-freeze bottles because they were black and warmed up the water nice when I wanted to take a shower. I'd poke some holes in the cap for a red neck shower head. So getting clean would be my first priority.

Second thing would be some sort of outhouse. Pretty self-explanatory there. Just don't be a dummy and put it near the spring.

Tents are lousy. I hate rolling over in my sleep into a sopping wet tent wall. Nothing wears on someone's nerves like not having a decent shelter, with young kids and a wife getting out of those tents would be job number one. First thing I did was built a simple structure on my land. I built it out of pallets and tin. All the materials were salvaged. If I were to do it again I would have just cut down logs and made a small cabin. It would have been sturdier. I got lucky later and stumbled upon a free mobile home in good repair. I would have had to re-do the shack or built a better building had I not gotten that mobile home. I would also be going on the internet at a library and scouring craigslist for cheap or free building supplies.

I also would buy a couple of deep cycle batteries for the car. Then I'd buy a cheap inverter so I could run some electric lights and some small appliances at home. That is what I did myself and it worked fairly decent until I got some solar panels.

I have a few other ideas kicking around, I'll post about those later.

Thank you. I was hoping someone with some experience might weigh in.

[PD-Riverman]

Being you have a vehicle as soon as I could I would get 1 or 2 extra batteries hooked up in it and pick up a 1500 watt inverter to run some things at Camp. The tents would be ok for a few weeks but I would be getting material together to build a storage building with sleeping bunks and storage. I would be collecting can food for as much time as I had before I went to the Camp.
First thing I would do when I arrive and got the tents set-up is find and set-up a out door toliet. It can be as simple as a 5 gal bucket with a salvaged commode seat or find one of those adult potty seats and remove the pan with a 5 gal bucket under it--a couple old sheets hung on a make shift frame for privancy. You can have another 5 gal bucket with some dry sand/dirt to cover up your "discharge". When the bucket gets about full take it to the fartherest corner of your place to dump into a dug-out hole. I would fix some kind of shelter to cook under and keep things out the rain. I would have the kids collecting fire-wood (Safely) and put it into piles. Collect water and safely prepare it for cooking and drinking. All this would be done in the first morning there. I would fix a place to keep things cooler(poor man fridge), either down at the creek or dig a place in the side of a hill. Get your kitchen set-up, the way you plan to cook. I have a old metal milk crate that the sides are cut out that I use to cook on with pots, frying pans etc and I also have a metal tri-pod to hang a cast iron pot on to cook stews, soups etc. I would make me a small circle out of rocks if there are some. Some time before cooking I would start a fire in this rock circle and keep it going to get some red coals/embers. I would take a shovel and move these embers under my cooking pots. If you want your pot hotter add more embers, if its to hot pull some embers away. I would then fix a place to wash/take a bath.

If I planned to stay for a long time as soon as I got things set-up I would get out all those seeds that I had saved/bought and find/fix spots to plant vegetables and plant them keeping in mind to plant what you can eat and to replant so you can have fresh vegetables. I would have gathered up alot of jars/lids and a pressure canner before I went to the woods to can the extra vegetables/meat.
In the next few months I would get the main building built with a small wood stove, alot of fire wood, alot of food put up and stored. Get a better John, bath area set-up. Hunting wild meat in the summer time is not something I would want to do because of wolves, tick infested animals. Me personally I would have a few chickens for meat and eggs and let them free range away from the garden area. I would also raise rabbits and collect and grow what they need to eat. I would can up all the rabbits as soon as food became hard to find except for a pair of breeders. Eat all the fish I could catch. I would try to find some families that I could barter vegetables and or my labor for some grain or extra cash to buy some extra animal feed and things we will need through the winter. I would do most of my hunting meat in the colder months. There is about 1000 more things I would do but My 1 finger I type with is about worn out. Good Luck

[oregon woodsmok]

Are you squatting or do you own the land?

If you own the land, there is absolutely no excuse to make your wife and kids live in a tent. You've got trees and an ax and that's all you need to build a log cabin.

If you are homeless and that is a homeless camp and you are squatting, it probably isn't a good idea to be cutting trees. That would be theft and could cause you some serious problems, maybe even jail time.

[Danaus29]

In bear country? No tents for this gal!
Campers can be had pretty cheap.

As for human waste, an outhouse is really cheap and easy to build. You could probably get most of the materials free off craigslist.

If there are no zoning restrictions against it, I would check into getting a couple non running box trucks or some sort of storage trailer for storing tools and dried foodstuffs.

I would also get a couple raccoon size live traps. There are some small animals that can be trapped and shot year round, varies by state though.

[deaconjim]

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

Are you squatting or do you own the land?

If you own the land, there is absolutely no excuse to make your wife and kids live in a tent. You've got trees and an ax and that's all you need to build a log cabin.

If you are homeless and that is a homeless camp and you are squatting, it probably isn't a good idea to be cutting trees. That would be theft and could cause you some serious problems, maybe even jail time.

For the sake of discussion, you own the land but your stay there is not by choice.

[rags57078]

just remember those can goods you don't want froze in the winter

[Forerunner]

Until abject neccesity demands, I will forego the logs for building materials.

With a few simple hand tools, dilapidated buildings can be dismantled for the lumber and reconstructed to house a family, fairly quickly and for next to nothing but time.
Hedge posts or electric line poles set in the ground make a fine, 50 year+ foundation.

Cleaning lumber and straightening nails for re-use are excellent pastimes and skill-builders for that wife and children, especially in the months directly preceeding garden season.......

[gone-a-milkin]

I am glad you specified owning the land.
That is very much better than camping on public land for any duration of time.

You say there is a clearing and water on site.
I wouild definitely try to situate the camp so carrying water is a downhill project, if that is possible.
That spring could be developed to provide refrigeration as well as all your potable water needs.

Consider prevailing weather patterns and possible drainage issues when choosing a site for the base camp.


First thing I would do is set up those tents on the edge of the woods.
Add some tarps and rope to the supplies artfully strung between trees and you could have a quick outdoor kitchen.
Buckets for food storage and sitting on too. Forget about canned food. Go to mostly dried stuff and forage greens and meat to supplement it.
Life w/o a freezeproof pantry is completely doable.
I guess you could dig a big root cellar, but that would not be my first priority.

Build an efficient fire pit to cook on and also a wood fired outdoor oven (not immediately, but pretty quick).
Having the cooking area out of the weather goes a long ways towards comfort in rainy weather.


The bathroom:

Personally if I am remote enough then 'privacy' is not an issue.
Dig a good deep hole off the pathway back in the trees. Family members can give eachother 'space' when using the facilities.
A building around it can happen later.

For buildings:

First I would start with a simple 4 posts and a roof, big enough for sleeping.
Ideally it would be framed and with a metal roof if it was in the budget.
From there you could make walls and floor as resources became available.
If they didnt, you could stack logs, or rocks or just stretch tarps to cut the weather.

By the time winter came I would aim to be sleeping off the ground at least having the tent up on pallets and under a secondary roof of some type.

Staying dry is a very big deal when you are camping.
Runs down your spirit quick when your bed and clothes are all wet for the duration of storms and days after.

Thats a start.

[Danaus29]

A hole in the ground won't work when the wind blows cold and the lady of the house has to squat there half nekkid, day after day. And about the time one of the kiddos loses their balance and you have to clean them up you will realize there has to be some sort of cover and some protection from the elements.

[gone-a-milkin]

Originally Posted by Danaus29

A hole in the ground won't work when the wind blows cold and the lady of the house has to squat there half nekkid, day after day. And about the time one of the kiddos loses their balance and you have to clean them up you will realize there has to be some sort of cover and some protection from the elements.

Well sure there does, eventually.
Before winter, of course. It just isnt the very first thing on MY list.
You could put a bucket with a seat on it over the hole if you are worried about the kids falling in.
I bet theat would only happen once. LOL

An outhouse is a tiny building. Shouldnt be too hard to get something up before the snow flies.

[lonelytree]

You people don't know remote.

[just_sawing]

1. First of all I am taking this was planned not throw on you since you have a night job.
2 Since the Night Job is going to keep you modern there would be no reason not to have Chain saw etc.
3 Shelter is first, a 12X16 barn takes about 1500 feet of lumber, the lumber would take about 20 mature poplar trees. Most Sawyers if you work with them would saw on the half for good lumber so 40 trees and mommy has shelter.
4 This makes a clearing, Clearing makes area for raised beds, Raised beds are easyier to not have criters attack.
5 The slabs from the sawing are used everywhere.
6 The sawdust is also used
7 Now that you have a shelter fences are Waddle from stick to tree. This is ongoing for ever.
8 Food not from the night job is a problem until you have more land cleared. ----ite Mushrooms on Oak logs will be an income since you are in the woods but this is a serious problem until you have a least ten acres in a planned sowed cultivation.
9 to stay off the radar is a whole different senarieo.

[deaconjim]

Just to clarify - This is a situation dictated by a personal SHTF situation, and is more of a "surviving on almost nothing" rather than a "surviving in the wilderness" scenario.

There has been a lot of good input so far. Thanks!

[fffarmergirl]

I'd start bringing home pallets and anything I could find to get the tents up off the ground - and insulate underneath them with leaves, mud, anything to fill the space. Pick up as many blankets as possible from Good Will. Find anything that can be used as tarps and get a tarp roof over all the tents. Stack the firewood around the tents as a windbreak, firepit in the center between all the tents. Tarps overhead and firewood to the sides sheltering the path to whatever kind of outhouse I could come up with and the same thing leading to the place where we could get our water. Big dog or two to help keep the wife and kids safe at night (means finding cheap source of dog food immediately), and arm the family with whatever I could find. Get ahold of some mulltivitamins - make sure they contain the B vitamins. Clothes line near enough to the fire pit, and strict rule that nobody wears wet/damp clothes. Invest immediately in lots of dollar store clothes, especially socks. Find some tea tree oil right away and make sure everybody's hair gets treated with it at least once a week to prevent lice. Something to make sure the dogs don't get fleas. If I had a gun I'd start baiting for bear, as they're pretty hungry in earily spring. Beans and rice are very cheap at the dollar store. We'd live off beans and rice and whatever wild greens we could find, supplement with whatever fish and meat we could catch (nets for fish).

Fell lots of trees and get them cut and drying for winter - will need enough to build a small cord wood house and supply firewood for the coming winter. Start getting any type of scrap roofing material I could find - doesn't matter if it's all the same as long as it can be put together without leaks. Earth floor will be OK for the first winter. Used windows.

Plan on starting a garden the following spring in a cleared area.

Get a root cellar dug, and rainwater collection system. Get working on a well/pit of some sort. Invest in water filter.