My grandson is lying....about useless stuff.....

luvrulz · #1 08/09/12, 10:09 AM

And I need some help in how to deal with this.... His father lies chronically and he's learned it from one of the best, however... I am not going to put up with him lying about whether or not he fed and watered the chickens. I am not going to listen to his stories about what happened at school when they are completely fabricated.

Lies about the dumbest stuff.....and he'd be much better off if he told the truth. He wouldn't get into trouble if he didn't water the chickens or fed the dogs. He doesn't understand that it's the lying that creates the problem.

How can I break him of this?

In an earlier post, I explained how we recently got custody from his dad; who is abusive and his new wife (Mike's new step mom) smokes weed and is generally a witch of a person. I don't want to spank him, but I need something else to make his set up and realize this is not acceptable behavior. He's 14. Doesn't have alot of friends here, not alot of hobbies for him yet - he has had a rough row to hoe and his whole life has been difficult...I have to be very careful about how I treat this.

I am thinking no phone for a month..... I can't go behind him and check every thing he does...I need to be able to rely on him.

KaiserW · #2 08/09/12, 10:27 AM

sounds like he is so used to lying about everything that it's just normal to him. how's his relationship with you? maybe build some trust with him. reward him for doing his chores and not lying. he needs to be shown that it's ok to forget something but not ok to lie about it, but you'll need to gain his trust first. sounds like he has no trust for anyone by the sounds of his father and the enviroment he grew up in.
it's going to take a while but POSITIVE reinforcment is needed not punishment.

**highlands** · #3 08/09/12, 10:30 AM

Encourage him to go into law or politics.

Other than that, having a bad example teaching him to lie is going to make it almost impossible for you to change this.

Cliff · #4 08/09/12, 10:35 AM

Tell it to him like you just did to us, that it's the lying that's the problem. That you expect honesty no matter what.

Tell him that all a man really has in this world is his word. Ask him if he really wants to grow up to be like his father. Tell him he has a choice to be a good person and have a good life. That it will be hard for him given his life so far but that you're there to help him if he'll let you. And all of this might not make a whit of difference to a 14 year old with a past like his but he needs to start hearing it now so maybe someday it will sink in.

Is there an honorable man around that can be a role model for him?

I'm sorry, I fear this is going to be a tough few years for you, but it's wonderful that you have the chance to make such a difference in your grandson's life.

luvrulz · #5 08/09/12, 10:44 AM

meant to put this in families.....

His grandpa is honorable & very truthful....we've been trying to talk to him, but with no results..... I am thinking he was just in a hurry (first day of school and trying to rush to get it all done, he was right off the bus practically....)

But he just doesn't get it..... Am not sure hubby will go along with one more "talking to" - but I can try that. I am in a quandry too, I grew up around girls and my dad wouldn't put up with one of us lying....

whiterock · #6 08/09/12, 10:59 AM

At that age, it will be hard to change. An ex gf had a daughter that would look you in the face and lie, knowing that you knew she was lying. Her brother was the most upstanding young man I had met in years, honest to a fault.
Kids brought up to lie don't know that telling the truth is easier in the long run. It becomes ingrained in them.
Good luck and my best wishes to you. Hard work is ahead for you and the boy.
Ed

unregistered41671 · #7 08/09/12, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind in Her Hair

this will sound crazy but remember, I trained dogs and horses so consider the source.

He has to "join up" with you - he has to trust you- he has to have a RELATIONSHIP with you - -not just live in your house. Then he has to take ownership of his responsibility as a member of your household.

If you have run out of "tools in your toolbox" to deal with this - PLEASE seek family counseling. We did when we got our 16 yr old runaway niece in handcuffs from the back of a squad car. Family counseling through the county services or a local church can help turn this boy's life around and may be FREE. Seek out some help - then get ready to go to work AGGRESSIVELY dealing with this issue instead of passively hoping it will go away. It won't .

Mighty good advice above.
Just one or two good talking to's won't be enough. You need to be on a mission. Stay the course. He is 14 and the clock is ticking. This problem will not go away on its own.

Kshobbit · #8 08/09/12, 11:12 AM

My grandson was also a liar and a thief. He lied all the time about everything. His Mother is a meth addict and his father, my son, gave me fits most of his life. I actually moved to the country to try to keep my son out of jail.
My grandson lived with me for a year from age 11 to 12 y/o. They had special meetings at school just about my grandson's behavior. He disrupted class every day. I wanted to get him psychiatric help but my son said NO Way.
When I caught him abusing my dogs and goats I told my son to come get him.
My grandson is now in prison for using a gun while committing a crime. My son
has disowned me for "ruining his life", I am talking my son's life not his son who he signed back over to his mother.
I feel for you but have no advice except perhaps you can get your grandson some therapy or psychiatric help. Good luck and may God bless.

nancy237 · #9 08/09/12, 11:26 AM

It will take time but he can learn to be honest..

One thing I did when my teens lied was to find lots of things they wanted to do in the weeks that followed that I would say...

" I would normally love to let you do that but I would have to trust you , so I can't let you do that"

So if they wanted to spend the night at a friends, Go on internet...,

"I would have to be able to trust you, so no"

I let them know they could earn my trust back, but without my trust they were going to be on a very tight rope. I reminded them that once they could drive, they would not be able to get out of my sight without my trust.. Every
single lie would make it harder to regain my trust..

Also talk about how brave he is to tell the truth when he does..catch him teling the truth as much as you can.

Also when you keep your word to him about paying him , or taking him somewhere, or anything you promise , that is a time to talk about how it would feel if you didn't keep your word. Once I told mine "changed my mind" when he came to collect the money I had promised for some work. Of course he said "but you promised" Of course I paid him but talked about how it would feel if he couldn't count on that

I disagree with those who say it can't be changed..

luvrulz · #10 08/09/12, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind in Her Hair

this will sound crazy but remember, I trained dogs and horses so consider the source.

He has to "join up" with you - he has to trust you- he has to have a RELATIONSHIP with you - -not just live in your house. Then he has to take ownership of his responsibility as a member of your household.

If you have run out of "tools in your toolbox" to deal with this - PLEASE seek family counseling. We did when we got our 16 yr old runaway niece in handcuffs from the back of a squad car. Family counseling through the county services or a local church can help turn this boy's life around and may be FREE. Seek out some help - then get ready to go to work AGGRESSIVELY dealing with this issue instead of passively hoping it will go away. It won't .

I know it won't go away, his dad is evidence of that! He is a vital part of our family - he is a huge help in the bakery and we depend on him! It was the first day of school, he volunteered to go water and feed the chickens, and he got involved in something else and forgot.... I *know* that's what happened, and I was thinking that a check list might help him. I know he has school on his mind - his classes and all the chores here.

I know his dad and step mom (shrewish screaming voice) didn't hold him accountable. They just screamed and punished him when it didn't happen...sad but true. We do not want to follow that path.....not even remotely.

I tossed this out *here* because You guys all have a huge variety of backgrounds, histories and stories.

Keep the ideas coming. I am more leaning towards the talking to....and once we get legal custody, in December, we will pursue counselling....can call on cost, but the insurance will go into effect then.....

ChristieAcres · #11 08/09/12, 11:46 AM

All bad behaviors should net direct consequences. Telling lies should result in losing privileges. Being honest should be rewarded in earning privileges. Yes, it can be changed!

homefire2007 · #12 08/09/12, 12:08 PM

My heart goes out to you, it really does. You've gotten some excellent advice here. The only thing I can add is that this child has probably been the scapegoat in his former family all his life. Sometimes, we continue the behavior we've learned because it is just too painful to get close to another human being again. The chance of being hurt or disappointed is too much. Time, commitment and trust will be huge. Getting some guidance and a game plan from a counselor will give you a starting point. In the meantime, work on trust, be firm but consistent. Make sure he knows it is the behavior you don't like, not the person. Good luck and please keep us updated on your journey. I think it is wonderful that you've cared enough to gain custody. That means a lot in today's world.

pancho · #13 08/09/12, 12:13 PM

Every person lies, some just aren't as good at as others.
Might as well try to stop him from breathing.

HeelSpur · #14 08/09/12, 01:10 PM

Bake a nice chocolate cake and when he ask where it is tell him you didn't make one....

MDKatie · #15 08/09/12, 01:19 PM

My 9 yr old DSS started lying last year, because he thought he could be smart and get out of trouble. Little did he know that we can tell right away when he's lying. We had several long talks with him about how important it is to be honest, and how we need to trust him, etc. We told him it takes a while to build up trust and how one little lie can totally ruin it. We told him he will ALWAYS get in more trouble if he lies about it than if he tells the truth. We've also told him that if he does something wrong but is honest with us and upfront about it, he will not get in trouble. We want to make it easy for him to be honest with us.

We started double checking everything he did. He liked about brushing his teeth once, so after that we'd ask if he brushed his teeth, and even if he said yes we'd make him go do it again. "Sorry, but I dont' know if you're telling the truth so go do it again so I know you did it." That got old (for him) real fast.

Also, try not to put them in the situation where he'd feel the need to lie. For example, if we were pretty sure he did something wrong, like hit his sister or something, instead of saying, "Did you hit your sister?" We'd say, "I know you hit your sister, and that's not an appropriate way to act." Or something like that. If you give most kids the opportunity to lie, they most likely will.

I used to lie as a kid. I lied about feeding my chickens one night, and my parents caught me in the lie. I was on restriction for a week. I do believe in punishment, because they need to know lying will get them in trouble, and telling the truth is easier.

And since we've cracked down on DSS, he's stopped the lying.

KnowOneSpecial · #16 08/09/12, 01:26 PM

Fourteen is too old to spank. We take away "screens". No TV screen, no video game screen, no computer screen and no screen door. If it has a screen, you ain't touching it. Lying means an automatic loss of screens for a day. Second time it's 2 days and so forth. Eventually they'll learn that it's too painful to lie.

bluemoonluck · #17 08/09/12, 01:36 PM

Some good advice here. Start with this, and see if it helps. Chronic lying becomes almost a compulsion and its hard to break

In extreme cases of lying teens, I have recommend doing this:

Figure out what would be an awesome trip for him - day at the amusement park, for example. Tell him on a Monday that you're going to take him this weekend, and talk it up all week long.

Saturday morning, wake him up and have him get ready. Get into the car, start the car, and back a few feet down the driveway..... then put the car back into park and turn it off. Turn to him and say "Well, I lied. We're not going anywhere today." Give him a minute or two to process this, then say "You know the way you feel right now? That is EXACTLY the way I feel every time YOU lie to ME. It doesn't feel very good, does it? Now that you know how I feel, lets promise each other that we won't lie to each other EVER AGAIN."

This has to be reserved for EXTREME lying, not just for average kids who lie here and there.

If he lies to you after this, look at him square in the eye and say "Remember the amusement park incident? Think about it....Do you want to live your life wondering if I really mean what I say? Because I know I don't want to live my life constantly wondering if you really mean what you say."

jen74145 · #18 08/09/12, 01:39 PM

He's fourteen and his world has been a wreck up to now, and it just changed. He has no idea what to expect or how normal people function.

He needs counselling and time. Actually, I'd say family counselling because this is new to all of you.

And no, you don't spank him. Who spanks a fourteen year old?

jen74145 · #19 08/09/12, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind in Her Hair

Instilling VIRTUE is very difficult if its not supported on every level. Layers upon layers upon layers of virtuous teaching is what children OUGHT to be getting but oftentimes do not.

Lessons taught about TRUTH from early childhood- in Aesop's fables and Hans Christian Andersen stories and Disney movies and the Bible andclassic pieces of literature and novels...

lessons from competeing in sports and involvement in scouting and other service organizations

and having a relationship with someone who CONSISTENTLY TELLS THE TRUTH and sets that example and then MAKES HIM ACCOUNTABLE for not telling the truth.

Children who lie are afraid of the ramifications - they do not trust their authority figure to "not hurt them worse than they can stand" and so, in fear, they lie.

You must make it "safe" for him to tell you the truth. That does not mean there won't be ramifications and discipline -there most certainly NEEDS to be - but he must understand that your corrections are out of love, care, and concern and NOT out of control. And he must understand that in order to accept discipline, HE must lower his resistance and accept the discipline.

Taking away the telephone - to me - is not an applicable means of discipline. THAT will feel like PUNISHMENT.

Sitting down and having a long heart to heart discussion about deceit and lies and how that poisons his relationship with you and others - is where I would start.

Explain to him that you want only the best for him and that you see his inability to speak the truth and take ownership of his failing to water or feed whatever as a HUGE character flaw that will haunt him his entire life if its left uncorrected. Tell him that you will NOT accept lies - that you expect the truth no matter what it is about.

I would have him read "The Book of Virtues
"http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Virtues-Treasury-Stories/dp/0671683063

and Chuck Holtens' "Making Men"

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Men-Fiv...rds=making+men

Work on INSTILLING a VIRTUE in him that isn't there rather than focusing on the failure.

be patient, be consistent, be strong, be clear

you have the tiniest window of opportunity to make a difference in this young man's life

make it count and hang in there.

And this needed repeating; if I could "like" it a thousand times I would.

DamnearaFarm · #20 08/09/12, 01:41 PM

I like the idea of a checklist. He may really be lying because he forgot to do something or forgot the steps involved and without prior support and help just gave up.

Maybe approach it with 'Hey, Grandson. I just thought of something today. With school starting and all the work here on the farm and in the bakery it may take us some time to get things back in a routine we are all comfortable with. Will you help me write up a list of the stuff we do here and what needs to happen when?'

Maybe having him help will give him the confidence he needs to see that lies aren't needed and open his eyes to what could suffer if he lies about doing things.