Any Feedback About These Wood Stoves...

badlander · #1 08/06/12, 01:59 PM

...would be greatly appreciated.

We are wanting to upgrade our current wood burner to an EPA model. Now that we have electricity at BaDland Farm, having a stove to cook on is no longer a main priority. As much as I enjoy cooking on a wood stove, our main consideration is stretching our wood supply, having a longer burn time, greater productivity and EPA standards.

Our current stove is a Vogelzang deluxe box stove and while it's a great heater and doubles as a cook stove, the thing eats wood like M&Ms and has me up every two hours in the winter feeding it like a person craving chocolate.

Right now we are looking at the Vogelzang Shiloh and Defender and the Drolet Eldorado, all three of which are on sale locally. All are basically the same BTUs although I think the Eldorado is slightly higher than the other two, and generally in the same price range.

We are looking to heat approximately 1200 square feet.

Any body have any experience with any of these stoves and what can you tell me about them both good and bad. We are going on Thursday to look at all three and would appreciate any feedback, OR recommendations on stoves.

Thanks!

HermitJohn · #2 08/06/12, 02:18 PM

Find the airtight woodstove with the biggest firebox you can afford if you want it to hold fire overnight. Avoid any with catalytic converters.

JohnP · #3 08/06/12, 07:49 PM

Find a nice old Fisher stove.
Fisher Stove Information, Parts, History and More | Hearth.com Forums Home

bassmaster17327 · #4 08/06/12, 08:09 PM

I put a Quadrafire Isle Royale in the home I am remodeling and what will be our future home, I only spend about three weeks a year at that house so I have not gotten to use the stove a whole lot. I am sure with more practice and a better chimney I will get it working even better than it does now.

I can put four splits of wood in the stove at 10:00PM and at 7:00 the next morning it still has plenty of hot coals and stovetop temps aroun 400. Prior to this stove I hade a "cheap" 600.00 stove from TSC that did not have the air control or recirculating system that this stove has and I was always adding wood and coud not control the heat. The Isle Royale is an expensive stove, around 2,800.00 but in the long run will save you a lot off wood and give you the longer burn time that it sounds like you want.

Inside the firebox it has a row of pipe across the top of the box with little holes in it, somehow the unburned smoke recirculates through the pipes and when it shoots out the holes it burns the smoke again. I call that the "afterburners" because it shoots out flame that looks like a rocket, when you have it set for the afterburners to work and using good wood you will not see any smoke coming from the chimney

badlander · #5 08/06/12, 08:56 PM

We've trolled around the Internet looking for Fisher stoves and I have to admit that they are impressive, they also appear to be pretty rare.

Bassmaster, I believe what you are describing on the Isle Royale that you have is the EPA configuration in your stove. That is what we are hoping to get. EPA that is. There are a lot of stoves o ut there to consider, It almost makes your brains hurt.

stickinthemud · #6 08/07/12, 12:23 AM

BIL has a Quadrafire & is mainly pleased with it BUT the firebrick lining is non-standard. When he had to order replacement parts from them on the west coast, price was high and so was shipping.

janetn · #7 08/07/12, 01:12 AM

Buy the best stove you can afford. Its worth the investment. The vogelzang stoves are one of the cheapest stoves on the market and you get what you pay for. You will pay for the cost saving on a cheap stove in wood use.

We bought a Harmon stove two years ago it was more expensive but the fire lasts all night and then some and it has a grill attachment so we can grill in January

We dont have to lug as much wood and the house isnt cold in the morning. Two big bonuses besides the cost of wood

Do some research on the net and find a good stove that will fit your needs

**Cabin Fever** · #8 08/07/12, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badlander

We've trolled around the Internet looking for Fisher stoves and I have to admit that they are impressive, they also appear to be pretty rare.

Bassmaster, I believe what you are describing on the Isle Royale that you have is the EPA configuration in your stove. That is what we are hoping to get. EPA that is. There are a lot of stoves o ut there to consider, It almost makes your brains hurt.

I owned a Fisher stove for many years. It was a well-built, robust stove. But I have to say, that our current Lopi stove is built just as well as the old Fisher. Plate steel is the same thickness and the firebrick lining is the same. The only differences between the old Fisher and the new Lopi are (1) the Lopi meets modern EPA emissions requirements where the old Fisher would not and (2) because the Lopi meets EPA requirements the stovepipe stays cleaner and you get more heat out of the same amount of wood compared to the Fisher.

Sandhills · #9 08/07/12, 12:18 PM

I found a Lopi Answer on Craigslist last year for $450. My house is a little bigger than 1200 sq ft. and it heats it well. I'm really impressed with this little stove. After watching the video on Lopi's website I understand why it is so efficient.
If I were to buy a new Lopi I would probably get the Endeavor.

bassmaster17327 · #10 08/07/12, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickinthemud

BIL has a Quadrafire & is mainly pleased with it BUT the firebrick lining is non-standard. When he had to order replacement parts from them on the west coast, price was high and so was shipping.

I replaced the ones in my Isle Royale with standard firebricks, I just had to cut some in half and drilled holes in a couple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badlander

Bassmaster, I believe what you are describing on the Isle Royale that you have is the EPA configuration in your stove. That is what we are hoping to get. EPA that is. There are a lot of stoves o ut there to consider, It almost makes your brains hurt.

I think it is called secondary burn, I am pretty sure there are EPA stoves that do not have secondary burn but have a catalatyic filter to filter out the smoke befor it leaves the stove. They almost look like a honeycomb, I avoided the ones like that because I did not want the cost of replacing them

badlander · #11 08/07/12, 01:12 PM

Unfortunately I have the feeling that the Lodi is going to be out of our price range right now. We just finished sinking 5 grand into electric wiring for the homestead, but the first time we turned on the AC it was worth it.

What we are looking for is something that we can get locally, North Eastern Missouri or Western IL where we work and not have to pay out a chunk for shipping. Better yet, somebody with free shipping that would deliver the thing to our door for us.

Oh, economical also. There are a lot on sale now for under 1000 dollars, pre season as it were.

JohnP · #12 08/07/12, 04:06 PM

Little bit of a drive but heck of a deal. Fisher wood stove

$150 for a grandpa fisher in St Joseph

There's also a grandma/grandma down by lake of the ozarks for $450

I've heard good things about the lopi too but have no idea of the costs.

Nimrod · #13 08/07/12, 04:46 PM

I put the Drolet Ht2000 in last year at about this same time. It was the biggest, nastiest stove Fleet Farm carried and Drolet made. I looked at both their web sites and don't see it listed so maybe it's discontinued. It has a 3.5 cubic foot firebox and holds a fire for 14 hours, even when it"s -30.

The drolet Elderado has a 1.5 cubic foot firebox. I don't know if that would hold enough wood for an overnight burn, even in the tropics of Missouri. Fleet farm does carry the Drolet Austral with a blower Wood Burning Stove - Drolet Austral Wood Stove .
Last year they were $700 on sale. I'd check into one or one of their other models with the same size firebox.

The one complaint I have with mine is that you have to remove the firebrick on the top of the firebox when you clean the chiminy. Otherwise the gunk that you scrub out of the chiminy accumulated on top of the firebrick and can block the chiminy. I don't know if other stoves have the same problem.

Fisher stoves are not in production. People who have them love them. I think I get more heat out of mine than they do.

Lopi have a very good reputation but are spendy.

The type of wood you burn has a big impact on how well your stove works. If I put in a big hunk of oak it lasts twice as long as the same size hunk of pine. Also leave a couple inches of ash in the stove when you clean it. It helps you bank a fire.

TnAndy · #14 08/07/12, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmaster17327

I think it is called secondary burn, I am pretty sure there are EPA stoves that do not have secondary burn but have a catalatyic filter to filter out the smoke befor it leaves the stove. They almost look like a honeycomb, I avoided the ones like that because I did not want the cost of replacing them

There are two methods used to get the efficiency UP and the smoke/creosote DOWN.

The first one they came out with was the catalytic converter. As you say, they have to be replaced in a few years ( depending on how much you use the stove ) and are fairly expensive to do so....I'd avoid them, and most manufacturers have quit even making them.

The most recent method is the "gassifier" or re-burn system. You'll see some rows of stainless steel tubing with holes in them in the top, inside, part of the stove. This method also meets the EPA requirements, and is a GREAT method. THIS is the stove you want.

With this type of stove, you want the BIGGEST firebox you can get. I wouldn't get less than a 2.5-3.0 cubic foot firebox if you want a burn time of 8hrs or more....even then, as Nimrod points out, a dense hardwood will outlast a less dense soft wood when it comes to burn time.

As for Fisher stoves, I wouldn't even look at one. Old technology, simply used air intake as the control method, and if you oversized the stove, you had to keep the air shut down, which simply "cooked" your wood and produced massive amounts of creosote. They were fine in their day, beat the older, air leaky stoves, but their time has passed.

With these new gassifier type stoves, you want to do just the opposite of conventional thinking on old, "air tight" stoves.....get the BIGGEST one you can, because when you crank the air down, the re-burn system stops about 90-95% of creosote production.

I had a Fisher in the basement....would produce a shop vac full of creosote over the course of a season....about 5 gallons......and I burn hardwood, seasoned 1 year minimum ( often 2 ). And that wasn't keeping it cranked down real low...it was a small, single door model, sized for the basement, so I could leave it run 1/2 way at least.

Replaced it with a gasifier type, amount of creosote produced over a whole season would not 1/2 fill a #10 can !!

BIG difference. PLUS that smoke/creosote you're burning ups the amount of heat delivered to the room instead of up the flue.

The old Fisher would belch smoke like a freight train....the new one, you can barely tell it's running after start up.....you have to look close for the heat shimmer to even tell it's working.

**highlands** · #15 08/07/12, 07:50 PM

I would argue the opposite. Get a simple box stove, add masonry around it to store heat, have a long internal tall chimney, burn fast hot fires, don't burn slow fires. It is the slow burn that pollutes and is inefficient. The fast hot burn with a long internal is highly efficient and cuts the pollution because it all burns. Very clear smoke.

We heat with wood and use only about 0.75 cord of wood a year for our home. Our home is a high masonry home. The wood stove is a simple box stove ($129) situated in the middle of the house inside a masonry surround. I burn it hot and the heat is stored in the masonry. Works great.

http://SugarMtnFarm.com/cottage

site:sugarmtnfarm.com fire - Google Search

Nimrod · #16 08/07/12, 08:34 PM

What Highlands said is correct but go one step better. Google Russian stove of Finnish stove. These are stoves built of firebrick and faced with brick, stucco, or native stone. They have a long convoluted path for the smoke to get out so it is almost all burned up and the brick thermal mass is heated up. The thermal mass radiates heat for 12 hours from one fast, intense fire. You only have to fire them once in the morning and once in the evening.

The problem with any thermal mass type stove is that you have to support it properly on massive footings or it will break a normal slab and sink. They cost way more than the OP budgeted unless you have access to free brick or stone. You probably can't build one yourself so you will have to hire it done and spend more money. You can't just fire it a little to take the chill off a fall evening. It takes too long to warm up. It is best in the dead of winter when you are heating all the time.

TnAndy makes good points. (we seem to have a mutual admiration society going) For what the OP wants to spend and the climate they live in, a wood stove with secondary burn is the best choice.

badlander · #17 08/08/12, 09:49 PM

We burn well seasoned hardwood that we harvest from our timber. It has cured 2 to 3 years and is mostly hickory, red and white oak and a little American Elm. We have a lot of pine and Osage Orange but do not burn it in our boxwood stove. We also burn 'hot' fires resulting in minimal creosote in our piping.

Keep the ideas coming everyone. I'm googling every one of them.

We have a line on a Century Stove, EPA certified, tax break eligible and heats 2000 square feet and it is available in our area. We are still open to other possibilities however and have until next month to make our final decision. We plan to swap out the old stove with our new one when we do our pre season chimney and pipe cleaning. I cleaned out the Vogelzang last weekend and after housing plenty of really hot fires over the last three winters, it is still in outstanding shape. It's a real workhorse, just not very efficient.

I'm just tired of having to stoke the silly thing 3 times during the night.

sidepasser · #18 08/09/12, 08:26 AM

I heat the farm house (2500 square feet) with a Fisher wood stove. It does a great job and puts out a lot of heat. I do hate having to get up at 3 am to put more wood on the fire though.

I think 150. for the Fisher in the ad is a great price, I paid 450. for mine but it had hardly been used, the lady I bought it from didn't like having wood in the house so only used it one winter for a couple of times. They went back to total electric.

I have been using that stove for more than ten years now and it still heats great with no problems. I would not get a stove with a catalytic converter, those are costly to replace. I think if I need to get another stove, I will do a masonry stove, maybe not quite so massive as some as I live down south, but I want to combine mine with an oven so I can bake bread/cakes and cook on one side. I think that would be an efficient use of a masonry stove and would serve two purposes.

siberian · #19 08/09/12, 06:40 PM

We just gotr a Country Charm kitchen stove. Have our fingers crossed.

RonM · #20 08/09/12, 06:52 PM

I use to have "Old Mill" airtight loved it, but got tired of cutting wood.....gave it up, sold it wish I still had it just for backup........