Anybody still use one of the Big Jim 101 lanterns?

[HermitJohn]

I was thinking of building something simular only with LED bulb. Didnt know anybody still made a metal Big Jim type lantern. but found the Rayovac 301K.



Not the quality of a Big Jim, but hey everything else is either plastic or imitation of a high dollar aluminum baseball bat. I want a lantern you can set down and then adjust the angle of the light.

Now the Big Jim (if I could find one in pristine condition cheap) had a sealed beam light (like a mini car headlight) so no replacing it with an LED, but the 301k uses standard 6V lantern/flashlight bulb so can replace with LED conversion bulb for $6. And forget the the long 6V lantern batteries. At $10 a pop for the carbon zinc version, thats a loser and double the price for the alkaline version. I'd just make a wood box to hold say 12 D cells since you can buy alkaline D in 12 pk sort of reasonable price. And design it so the lantern bolts to the top of the box much as it does to the long lantern battery.

Problems with my idea? Or does anybody know of a currently produced Big Jim type lantern already like I want, that isnt 99% cheap Chinese plastic?

[salmonslayer]

I know Duracell still makes the screw top batteries like that but your probably going to have to hit E-Bay for the lantern. You are on the right track with the D-Cell idea too, I seem to remember taking one apart back in my youth and thats basically what they were.

I see them occasionally at farm auctions which the Mrs and I like to hit frequently, if I see one in the future I'll pick it up and PM you..no obligation, if you dont want it then I would just keep it or sell it.

[HermitJohn]

The Eveready Big Jim and some imitators were quite popular back in day both for hunting and farm chores. The Big Jim was the Cadillac (or should I say Packard) of these. No plastic in the thing and that sealed beam was great way to go back in the day. Very little problem in rough use, it was indeed just miniture sealed beam car headlight. It wasnt horrible on batteries but sure nothing close to what LED can do for battery life.

My parents had a cheaper imitation one more like that Rayovac 301K still sold today. The real weakness with imitations that didnt use a sealed beam, was the plastic screw-on ring holding reflector/bulb assembly in the can. They'd crack and everything would fall out. Duct tape time. Doubt an old one could be found with a good plastic ring. Plastic doesnt age well, if one was found that wasnt cracked, it probably would be after very little use. And the modern new Rayovac isnt that expensive if you shop around for one minus the battery, though its very minimalist design for sure, they didnt want to use one milligram of metal they didnt have to. The real Big Jim was all metal and they didnt scrimp, probably be $75 to $100 flashlight in todays world if still sold new. But like I say a real Big Jim would be difficult to change to LED as you would have to fabricate a reflector and lens to replace the sealed beam. I am not sure how that sealed beam would do with alkaline D cells. I'd think 12 D cells could hold their own against one of these big 6V lantern batteries. I think the smaller 6V lantern batteries was equivalent of 4 D cells and the big 6V lantern battery was supposed to be equivalent of 8 D cells. So 12 D cells wired together in 6V configuration should be plenty.

[HermitJohn]

hmmm, may not have to buy lantern part. Just saw old Coleman rechargable lantern from 90s setting on shelf. It worked for not that long and then battery wouldnt take a charge. I remember opening the case of flashlight up and discovering they had used what looked like a rechargable C cell.... ONE! They put some money into the case, even though its plastic, its quite sturdy. They cheaped out with the rechargable battery. I had always intended on redesigning it so it had some serious battery capacity, never did. But kept it cause it had such a sturdy housing. Now cant get case apart. But if I can get it apart without destroying it, can see if bulb replaceable with LED and run wire out of case, then hinge it ontop of a box of batteries.

Grrr... at one time long ago I did have the thing apart, but for life of me cant see the trick to it now. I know I did get kick out of instructions on box saying battery not replaceable and to dispose of flashlight properly when it stops working.....

[salmonslayer]

I rarely buy new stuff or technology. After going through a toaster about every three years we bought an old 1948 B4 Toastmaster and its been flawless...all it does is toast bread...perfectly.

I remember the Big Jims and used to have one when we had our camper but like a lot of things I have no idea what ever happened to it.

[HermitJohn]

Well I had to drill out two of the deeply recessed phillips screws, rusted/wallowed to where they wouldnt unscrew. Here is only image of it I could find online.



Its a Coleman Charger 1 Sportlight by the way. I still say for plastic, the case is pretty good design. Opened up, the rest of it is cheap schlock, especially the bulb holder assembly, but hey whatever. And that little angle stand on bottom never worked since it was super light weight and was trying to hold a much heavier flashlight. Made whole thing very off balance. Where as the Big Jim design had the heavy battery as its base and just head tilted.

I admit that I got conned back in 90s when I bought it. Good ole capitalist marketing is all about conning people into believing they are getting more value than they are.

Not sure I want to try for the sows ear into silk purse trick or not. Sometimes its doable, not having very positive feeling on this though.

[salmonslayer]

The picture didnt post John and you have my curiosity up..can you try again?

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by salmonslayer

I rarely buy new stuff or technology. After going through a toaster about every three years we bought an old 1948 B4 Toastmaster and its been flawless...all it does is toast bread...perfectly.

I remember the Big Jims and used to have one when we had our camper but like a lot of things I have no idea what ever happened to it.

I ditched toasters altogether. I occasionally want to toast bread, just heat up the old cast iron fry pan and stand there and turn bread when appropriate. Does as good job as any toaster, just not quite as convenient.

I dont mind technology if its robust, durable, dependable, repairable, and cheap. Delicate, complex, poorly made, or flat out expensive technologies are poor waste of money.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by salmonslayer

The picture didnt post John and you have my curiosity up..can you try again?

Its showing in my browser.

Here is direct link:

http://s10.postimage.org/p4qvez5tj/C...5347_D718b.gif

[salmonslayer]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Its showing in my browser.

Here is direct link:

http://s10.postimage.org/p4qvez5tj/C...5347_D718b.gif

Ah, we have those on the fire department, pretty durable for plastic but we use them with a shoulder strap and I havent tried them with the stand.

[HermitJohn]

Okay, really wanted to own something that isnt PLASTIC. PLASTIC bugs me no end. I found a genuine Big Jim 101 on Ebay and now own it for shipped price of little over $16. Its in pristine condition and cheaper than a new Rayovac 301K, plus unlike the 301K, IT DOESNT HAVE ANY PLASTIC and just looks nicer. I also found out I can get a diamond hole saw for not that much IF I want to convert the sealed beam to LED..... Just use the sealed beam as a lens. I may however just leave it sealed beam. See how battery life is. Do have to make a base box for the D cells to substitute for the lantern battery. I am not buying those overpriced lantern batteries.

So I get what I want even if I alas have to buy an antique to do it. They had some of the Big Jim 100 with the red tail light, but those were going for up around $50. I guess collectors want the ones with the red tail light??? Frankly cant think of one use for tail light unless I left the sealed beam up front and converted the tail light to LED with clear lens.... But not for $50. At $50 its a collectors piece far as I am concerned. $16 kinda my limit on flashlight where I have to do modifications and I really didnt want to give that much.

[HermitJohn]

Got Big Jim today. Lighter weight than I thought it would be. But its in immaculate shape in all its chromed shiney glory. Waiting on the plastic D cell holders before designing box to put them in. Then got to looking online and read about some people using sealed lead acid battery with their Big Jim. You can get a 6V 12AH lead acid battery for around $16 and the charger is around $10. Its a float charger so once battery is charged, it just keeps it fully charged, doesnt let it overcharge. Apparently these are same batteries used in some of the little plastic cars that small children can ride in around the yard. Also used in UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). Reading about them, they seem to last forever even if left discharged for long periods and other such abuse. One (12AH version) weighs 4 pound. Ok seems reasonable, just depend on how long it lasts but if it just had lifespan equal to two sets of D cells, it would be money ahead. Size wise could even use two of these batteries, but dont think I really want a ten pound flashlight.

I've not had luck with the little AA rechargables, but cant say I ever had a sealed lead acid battery so no personal experience.

I may build two battery boxes for Big Jim. One for a sealed lead acid battery and one set up for D cell alkalines since I already order the D cell holders, havent bought any D cells. Try the sealed lead acid battery setup first maybe. It seems like the more economical mousetrap IF it holds up well. Nothing beats disposable alkalines for immediate gratification in an emergency though.

[salmonslayer]

Congrats on the find and I would be interested in seeing pics of what you come up with. If I remember correctly the rear red light flashes and was designed for roadside emergency lights in case of a break down.

Take a look at this link, the Big Beam 266 has a sealed beam chrome swivel lamp and the battery box is all powder coated steel. I would love to have one but I bet its a fair bit more than $16.00!

Big Beam Emergency Systems, Inc.

[HermitJohn]

I had no idea anybody still made this type all steel flashlight. But after seeing your Big Beam wholesale website, found this place that sells the new ones retail: Big Beam Lantern lights - lantern are 6 volts, 12 volts or 7.5 volts

The BB-666 looks almost identical to the Big Jim 101 I got and its the screw on kind like Big Jim, $40, so not horrible, horrible. They have other models with the red steel boxes for more money of course. I'd think putting a battery in a steel box is just asking for leaks and RUST bigtime. Especially if you dont use/check it often.

Here is the BB-666



Here is the Big Jim 101 I bought.



Thanks for pointing out the Big Beam is still made, they date from 40s, originally made by Teledyne. Had no idea, there are more of them on ebay than there were Big Jims

[Shrek]

If you want headlight style stand up LED lights check for the 50,000 candle power hand held rechargeable models. Some run under $50 at heartland america , academy , harbor freight etc.

5 watt tactical rechargeable tactical lights work well also. I found a 5 watt tact light that has both house and car chargers that cost only $30 and throws a beam about 400 feet on the high beam.

[HermitJohn]

I've seen the Chinese 50k candle power things. Not what I want.

Tactical light not what I want. whoever came up with name tactical light anyway... jeesh

I want a Big Jim / Big Beam type light. One that I dont have to hold in my mouth or stick in the mud to aim in right direction while changing a tire. Neither a high power HAND HELD spot light nor a HAND HELD tactical light will do that.

Thinking with a rechargable 12ah lead acid, just leave it with the sealed beam. Those old sealed beam werent as kind as LED on battery but werent that bad either. Rechargable battery means its not that big of a deal, it will power the sealed beam for more hours than I will probably need it and then can just hook up charger again.

[Txrider]

I have taken to using the headlights they sell at camping stores. Basically AAA or a few watch batteries with a multiple LED headlamp with elastic headband. A decent one weighs almost zero, has a couple of brightness levels and the batteries have lasted me for a year or three.

Very handy basically like an old miners headlamp that weighs almost nothing, leaves both hands free, is always aimed where I am looking and battery lasts quite a while and is cheap.


I did pick up a cheap chinese flashlight that looks like an old 6v lantern, but has a slide out plug so you can just plug it in the wall and it hangs there on the socket, had two brightness levels and will burn 8-10 hours straight before it needs a recharge or it did when I left it turned on all night by mistake last week. I believe there are 2 or 4 AAA size batteries in there and about 8 LED bulbs. Dunno how long it'll last but it's already paid for itself, wouldn't have bought such a cheap piece of junk.

But the good LED headlamps have been awesome, I doubt I'll buy many flashlights in the future as the headlamps are just so small to store in a glovebox or even my pocket, are bright, last long and are always aimed there I'm looking hands free.

[HermitJohn]

At one point long ago somebody gave me one of those "headlight" flashlights that fit with arms like pair of glasses around your ears. The lights came on when you unfolded the glasses... This was before LED. Hey it worked ok, but the AAAA batteries didnt last long. On other hand wouldnt have wanted to use them with D cells, however I think they could have made them with AA or even C cells.

As to the LED flashlights, admittedly I have been buying the low pricepoint models but they just dont hold up worth a darn. Had the individual LEDs fall out or stop working. The switches dont hold up. One big aluminum one that looks that is Chinese copy of the Maglites, the end cap came off... with the threaded portion of the tube that holds the batteries. I rigged it with couple hose clamps and short length radiator hose. But come on, who wants crap that self destructs in 6 month to 2 years?

Right now I have a 2 cell aluminum LED "blood tracker" light I got for $10 from TSC. Its impressed me as being better quality than any LED light I've had before. Not super high quality by any means, but it looks like it might last 5 year if I dont drop it inappropriately.... But its not handy, its just a short tube style flashlight and I need something I can set down and adjust to point where I want it. .

The headlamps you mention might be just the thing, but spending $30 on yet another Chinese plastic flashlight leaves me queasy. I guess my problem is that I think $30 is still serious money. That wont fill pickup gas tank anymore. And I must be totally crazy wanting something that lasts decades, not weeks or months or even couple years.

If they do nothing else the old Big Beam and Big Jim flashlights have proved they can last DECADES. And they are repairable. Not big deal to replace bulb or switch or wiring. Or even clean out and repaint it if battery leaks. Just the batteries for them have gotten crazy price, only reason people gave them up. Well that and people that remember them are dieing off. And maybe people have different needs now. But they were the ultimate chore light in their day.

If the headlamps style light hold up or if I get rich enough to buy a new one every year or two maybe they do take the place and even offer an improvement for some uses.



But I now own a Big Jim in good condition. If I can solve the battery conundrum, then it will probably last me the rest of my life. I am going to have to gamble if I go the rechargable sealed lead acid battery direction, but even I can see that would be most economical if it holds up at all. And 12AH should let light last several hours. The alkaline lantern battery (the eight cell ones that the Big Jim was made to use) are like 26AH, the carbon zinc around 12AH. So the lead acid should do as well as the carbon zinc lantern battery. Just depends on lifespan of battery. What lot people dont understand is that ALL lead acid batteries sulfate and really need a float charger to keep them topped off when not in use without overcharging them. And lot flashlights that come with a rechargable battery cheap out on battery size. They are trying to maximize profit not maximize life and utility. The Big Jim also used a sealed beam that provides local light not a focused beam or extremely bright light. It was chosen to give battery life of around 100 hour, thats with carbon zinc battery. Figure twice that with alkaline. Alkalines didnt exist when Big Jim was popular.

[salmonslayer]

I know you want to change the sealed beam to an LED setup but really the sealed beam lamp works pretty good and as you pointed out the battery life is great. I have found that sometimes the old saw that "If it aint broke dont fix it" actually has some merit; have you really looked at what your intended use is and checked out the light quality of the sealed beam unit? Personally, I think I would be more inclined to keep the sealed beam unit and dont see a real advantage with the LED setup for the use I would have (road side repairs, etc.).

[HermitJohn]

I wasted half day on web looking at sealed batteries and chargers. What a nightmare. Info not very complete and pretty vague. Nobody wants to give manufacture dates which are VERY IMPORTANT on lead acid batteries. Found out that $16 bargain battery is new, but manufactured in 2008!!!! The seller is selling old "new" stock that was too old to send out to the regular retailers and he bought up cheap. And he's only giving 3 or 4 dollars off what others are discounting their recently manufactured batteries. Guess they charge the batteries before sending them out and if they take a charge, they are considered ok. Not promising for a long life. Some of places wont allow returns on batteries even if you get a DOA battery and force you to go through manufacturers warranty which usually isnt worth the hassle unless its a high dollar item. Manufacturers design it this way. Make warranty painful to use and fewer people will use it.

Finally ordered a Powersonic through Portable Power. Just cause they had very good customer satifaction reputation for a retailer. Powersonic and Panasonic seem to have best rep for their sealed lead acid batteries. Then finding a charger, jeesh. The marketing people only give the vague talking points for their product and make finding info I actually wanted nearly impossible. All the retail sites just parrot what the manufacturer marketing people want said. Finally just picked one that had heat vents on case (some dont??!) and an indicater light of when battery is charged and charger is in float mode. Yea cost two cents to add such an indicator light but some chargers without it that claim they are float chargers.

Anyway with the rechargable battery, doesnt seem much need to change to LED. The LED would be worth it if I were buying dry cells since they are expensive one time use and you want to maximize their useful life. But costs very little to recharge a rechargable battery. And since I am using a 12AH battery, it should give more hours of light than I will ever use lantern for at one go even with sealed beam. The old carbon zinc 8 cell 6V lantern battery is around 12AH. So the lead acid should do as well as that. course lead acid battery capacity declines over time. From what I read they should give around 3 year life, more if you are fastidious about their care. Meaning when battery isnt in use, its on a float charger. And you dont ever discharge battery completely before recharging. Most commercial lights with sealed lead acid battery size their batteries way too small, thus they are completely depleted in couple hours and you get short life span. Unlike motors, lights will deplete battery completely if left on.