Homeowners Ins. and Chickens

Whisperwindkat · #1 05/17/12, 06:10 AM

A neighbor called me yesterday wanting recommendations for homeowner's insurance. Apparently a friend of her's from town was dropped by her insurance company on the claim that her 4 laying hens were a liability. This person had called every major insurance company in town and been told the same thing. They won't insure her because her chickens are a liability. She was astounded as am I. Why would they consider chickens a liability, even more so than her pit bull apparently? Is it because she lives in town? Are we all in danger of losing our homeowner's insurance just because we have a few chickens? Anyone ever heard of something like this. Thanks, Kat

blooba · #2 05/17/12, 06:53 AM

Haven't you ever seen the Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds"?

sammyd · #3 05/17/12, 07:12 AM

you need to let your insurance company know you have livestock on the premises, most companies will issue a rider for a fee to cover any issues resulting from the livestock.

foxtrapper · #4 05/17/12, 07:18 AM

Over on another poultry forum, it seemed that 3 was the magic number. 3 and below were pets and that was ok under a conventional homeowners policy. 4 and above were livestock, and that triggered a different policy as an agricultural operation.

CarolT · #5 05/17/12, 08:39 AM

Tell her to see if she has a local ALFA office. Maybe a town thing? Makes me worried about calling and checking around, though...

salmonslayer · #6 05/17/12, 09:22 AM

We have an agricultural rider on our policy since we have chickens and cattle and it only added something like $40 a year to the policy. You might have them check into something like that.

KimTN · #7 05/17/12, 09:25 AM

I got dropped from an insurance company that I had been with for over 25 years (starts with the word "state") because of chickens. I had to go get farm insurance. Yep, like a chicken is more dangerous than a dog.

chewie · #8 05/17/12, 09:36 AM

wow, learn something new everyday. who knew chickens were so dangerous!!

halfpint · #9 05/17/12, 10:17 AM

I have non commercial farm insurance, most of the major companies have it, as over the years we've had it with State Farm, Progressive, Alfa and Farmers.
What is available might vary by state.
Dawn

where I want to · #10 05/17/12, 10:23 AM

Is this about selling eggs rather than having chickens?

Old Vet · #11 05/17/12, 11:20 AM

The liability is that she lives in town and may not have all the permits to raise chickens or they might be studying to make it not legal. The liability may come from the suits that may arise of having livestock so close too other persons because of the smell or the diseases they might carry (ever heard of avian flue).

Plowpoint · #12 05/17/12, 01:09 PM

I have had this issue before and am in the process of dealing with it now. In fact last Friday I had everything ready to go on a Farm Loan and they dropped a bombshell when they said I needed my insurance carrier to send them a copy of my insurance. I did not have any so I called to get some and found out it would be impossible to get homeowners insurance with my sheep operation here.

Through Farm Family I was able to get a farm insurance that is reasonable in cost and will grow with me as the farm grows. I am in the process of buying the rest of the farm off my parents so I got some additional buildings to insure soon, and of course, get more sheep to pay for all this.

In previous years I have gotten by with homeowners insurance calling my sheep "pets" and basically skating a very thin line. I say that because if a sheep ever did get out of my fence, and got hit by a car in the road, I know my insurance would probably not cover it. One look at my fences and number of sheep and they would make the claim that I was a commercial sheep operation.

Such as it is with insurance: Legalized Extortion

BamaSuzy · #13 05/17/12, 11:11 PM

One of our area's local ALFA agents said he could not insure our small farm because we MADE AND SOLD GOAT MILK SOAP and that is considered "cosmetic" and they can't cover us.....and he said he was a "state" decision and not his locally....they didn't mind us selling eggs it was the soap they didn't like...

It's all a bunch of bull....most advertise they support small farmers and they have no idea what a real small farmer is!

BamaSuzy · #14 05/17/12, 11:12 PM

And Plow Point, how do you get in touch with "Farm Family" insurance????

Harry Chickpea · #15 05/18/12, 12:13 AM

Drop your homeowner insurance.

It isn't insurance anymore. It is a tax by corporations masquerading as insurance companies. I figured it out about four years ago. It is too late today for me to go through the routine, but in essence, they will accept ever increasing tribute payments until you make a claim. Once you do, they will drop you, tell their cronies, and you won't be allowed to get insurance. Just drop 'em now and tell 'em to take a hike.

flewism · #16 05/18/12, 02:21 AM

Yes Insurance is a racket for sure, years ago when we had the State_____ insurance Co. We had something called estate insurance because of the two horses. When they found out the I was having the back acreage farmed just to keep the weeds down with no financial gain for us. They attempted to add a $500 rider to cover if anybody got hurt or damaged during it. So I shut that local farmer down the following year.

EasyDay · #17 05/18/12, 05:36 AM

Some months ago, I was shopping for new HOI.
I was surprised to find so many companies that, even with farm insurance, limit the number of animals, etc.
One company said they don't allow more than three animals on their FARM insurance!

I asked the guy how many animal farms he's seen with LESS than three animals.

I went through an underwriter in town, and ended up with one of those same companies that told me 'no'... it somehow became a 'yes', with far better rates, through the underwriter.

Whisperwindkat · #18 05/18/12, 06:34 AM

I think it's crazy. She has the chickens legally and according to the city laws (max 4 hens, no roosters, enclosed coop not located on the fence line) and she doesn't sell eggs. I just don't understand how 4 hens enclosed in a coop is any different than any other "bird in a cage". Certainly there are loads of people that have pet birds and many of them are quite large. How would having 4 macaws be any different than having 4 chickens. Well I will tell my neighbor to have her friend ask about farm insurance or a rider, that might help her out. Harry, if you have a mortgage you are required to have HOI. Unfortunately most folks can't afford to be mortgage free or pay upfront for a home. I think it's crazy that she would have to get a farm rider or policy because of 4 hens cooped up, but maybe that would be her answer. Thanks all for the tips, Kat

BamaSuzy · #19 05/18/12, 07:07 AM

Most CAN'T NOT carry insurance if there is any type of mortgage at all on the farm....if you drop it then the mortgage lender will put you under a "high risk" policy that costs a fortune!!! That's another reason to pay off your place as quickly as you can and NEVER EVER put a mortgage on it if you can help it.....hopefully mine will be paid off in about two years...

Harry Chickpea · #20 05/18/12, 10:01 AM

Yeah, I realized after posting that people with mortgages have to have insurance to protect the lender. In such a case, I would go for the minimum coverage that would accomplish that.

What seems to be going on with insurance companies is insane. The "no animals on the farm" routine smells like something I have experienced before. When a company gets in financial difficulty (which may not be apparent to an outsider) sometimes the beancounters in accounting get control rather than the operations department. The beancounters say to the board "We can save $X by no longer doing this, and $Y by not servicing this group." The board will agree, over the protestations of operations because it can't show hidden links. Example: One company I worked for cut payroll to the bone, which eliminated people working at the concession stands. Payroll went down, but customers walked away from the stands because of the long lines, so the overall income dropped far more than the savings. The beancounters didn't have a clue, and only saw that the income per employee hour was going up.

If you have stock in insurance companies, what with the ongoing housing mess, and the possibility of another market meltdown from Europe, this might be a time to dump it.

Also - read your policy and look for loopholes. Those loopholes have been getting bigger in recent years. You likely are paying more for substantially less coverage.