Dreams starting to become real

[dlskidmore]

Yesterday hubby got a very good offer for employment. My income is already going all to savings, but his new salary makes it possible to add on a reasonable land payment on our future homestead without me working a conventional job.

We could have 10% down this summer, or 20% down next spring on a 40 acre property in the area we're looking.

My head is buzzing so much, I don't know where to start asking questions. I've done a ton of reading, but don't have much practical homesteading experience beyond gardening and some canning/crafting skills.

We're not going totally survivalist/off-grid or anything like that. My primary goals are to raise most of our own food (vegetables, fruits, and pastured meats), have open space in which to raise children, and have that open space pay for itself. I'd also like to have some work I can continue to do (slower) when I'm past the desk job retirement age.

I have some health issues, so I'll be starting slow and adding on just a little bit every year. I'm hoping the lifestyle will help with my health issues as I'll eat healthier and get more sunshine and exercise. Ideally we'll purchase land next to an active farm and lease out the land I can't work yet, or find another beginning farmer to lease from us.

It's a bit late to do much gardening after purchase if we buy this summer, but I might get in some fall greens. If we start next year, a 1/4 acre garden would be manageable if I do mostly direct seed plants. I'd like to eventually work up to a couple acres of garden and have some to sell. I have a second garden on the church grounds where I raise some food for the homeless shelter, and I'm learning a lot there. (Not raising a whole lot of food yet, given the distance of travel involved, I don't get out there often enough to head pest problems off at the pass.)

I'm thinking I want to start with three sheep, a dozen chickens, and murderous intents. I think killing and eating my own animals will be the hardest part of the lifestyle change, so I don't want to give myself an out to decide some of them would be worth keeping on longer than I should, and if I don't keep any over the first winter I'll have more time to establish a winter feeding supply.

I'm hoping to make a little money on the side with grazed meats once I get enough fences up, I dabble in enough crafts that I can likely find something to make in winter with a good etsy market from my sheep's wool, and I have some other business ideas I can tell you more about after I start.

I'm not sure how long I want to maintain my current job after we purchase the homestead. It would be much easier to balance new lifestyle, extra work of getting things running, and health issues if I'm not working off the farm 40 hours a week, but it would also be nice to build up some savings in case anything happens with hubby's job or start-up expenses are more than I estimate. I'm thinking I at least want to work for another year and put the money into the farm or savings.

So, any major flaws so far? What would be a reasonable income per acre to expect for gardening vs grazing in Western NY? Winter crafts income? (We have very good summer grass around here, but enough snow in winter that supplemental feed is likely to be needed.)

I've got so many other things to think about, but many of them are useless until we pick a piece of land and see what our starting point is.

[MullersLaneFarm]

Sounds like a good plan to me!

[dlskidmore]

Had a good long talk with hubby last night. He's very laid back sort of person, so I have to make a strong effort to get his input so I don't accidentally steamroll him. He does want more equipment than I was planning, which means working a bit longer, and he wants a nice house that we're not going to have to renovate right away. (I was interested in modular building, but it looks like financing the land is tricky without a valuable house.)

[Tracy Rimmer]

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, really I'm not -- but I've been where you're at (wanting it so much, with so many plans in your head for what you WILL do...), and I want you to walk into this with eyes WIDE open -- I wish someone had for me!

Originally Posted by dlskidmore

Yesterday hubby got a very good offer for employment. My income is already going all to savings, but his new salary makes it possible to add on a reasonable land payment on our future homestead without me working a conventional job.

Excellent! Money is good! More money is better! This lifestyle is a WHOLE LOT MORE expensive to start up than one might think, if you're starting from zero.

We're not going totally survivalist/off-grid or anything like that. My primary goals are to raise most of our own food (vegetables, fruits, and pastured meats), have open space in which to raise children, and have that open space pay for itself.

Okay, doable, for the most part. But first, you have to realize that that "self-sufficient in food" is never 100%. You might grow your own grain, but to make bread, you have to have other ingredients -- like salt and sugar and yeast. If your property doesn't have a pre-existing orchard, it's going to take YEARS to get it producing -- work that into the plan! Get your fruit trees planted before you do anything else, and get the garden tilled and productive next. Animals and meat production can wait -- really, they can!

I have some health issues, so I'll be starting slow and adding on just a little bit every year. I'm hoping the lifestyle will help with my health issues as I'll eat healthier and get more sunshine and exercise.

Please, please, PLEASE don't count on this. I'm not saying you ARE, just be aware that, with a complete lifestyle change, it will be hard enough for you to adjust to, if you have preexisting health issues, please don't put the pressure on yourself of assuming that you'll be healthier, so you can do more. Getting well ought to be your very first priority, and being productive secondary to that. Sunshine, activity and fresh air are all important, but don't set goals that you can't meet, based on assumptions about how your health will improve. The first few years of doing this are EXHAUSTING, and if that will negatively impact your recovery, you need to prioritize your recovery BEFORE your move.

Ideally we'll purchase land next to an active farm and lease out the land I can't work yet, or find another beginning farmer to lease from us.

I don't know exactly where you're at, but less than 40 acres to lease where I live wouldn't be worth leasing by any local farmers. Remember, as well, that if the land is leased, you cannot make ANY improvements on it in the interim. Be very careful here -- and don't count on it to make your plan successful!

If we start next year, a 1/4 acre garden would be manageable if I do mostly direct seed plants. I'd like to eventually work up to a couple acres of garden and have some to sell. I have a second garden on the church grounds where I raise some food for the homeless shelter, and I'm learning a lot there. (Not raising a whole lot of food yet, given the distance of travel involved, I don't get out there often enough to head pest problems off at the pass.)

Yes, 1/4 acre is a nice start. A couple of acres worth of garden is better, but keep in mind that it's also nearly a full-time job -- especially if you don't use chemicals, and even more especially, if you aren't in it every single day. Weeds grow more quickly than vegetables -- a terrible truth! -- and you MUST be willing to spend several hours every day working in your garden if you want to raise "most" of your own food.

I'm thinking I want to start with three sheep, a dozen chickens, and murderous intents. I think killing and eating my own animals will be the hardest part of the lifestyle change, so I don't want to give myself an out to decide some of them would be worth keeping on longer than I should, and if I don't keep any over the first winter I'll have more time to establish a winter feeding supply.

Again, my suggestion would be to get your infrastructure set the first year (orchard, garden, pens, barn/stalls, water source, feed source) and ONLY when that is set up and running well, get livestock. The infrastructure is so very important to success -- you'll thank yourself in the long run.

I'm hoping to make a little money on the side with grazed meats once I get enough fences up, I dabble in enough crafts that I can likely find something to make in winter with a good etsy market from my sheep's wool, and I have some other business ideas I can tell you more about after I start.

Look into meat sale regulations in your area. It may or may not be possible, but you need to know ALL the regulations, as well as if not better than your local health inspector, BEFORE investing in breeding stock.

Don't rely on "crafts" to bring in anything. Consider it an enjoyable extra, if it happens. With a worsening economy, things like this don't do well, unless you have a really unique, niche item, and then only for so long.

I'm not sure how long I want to maintain my current job after we purchase the homestead. It would be much easier to balance new lifestyle, extra work of getting things running, and health issues if I'm not working off the farm 40 hours a week, but it would also be nice to build up some savings in case anything happens with hubby's job or start-up expenses are more than I estimate. I'm thinking I at least want to work for another year and put the money into the farm or savings.

VERY good idea! Extra income, even if it's only going toward increasing the cushion, is always a good idea, especially in the beginning. Don't underestimate how much of a change this lifestyle is and how much of an adjustment it requires. It's easier to do, ensuring long-term success, if you take things one step at a time, making conservative decisions, rather than jumping into everything concurrently.

So, any major flaws so far? What would be a reasonable income per acre to expect for gardening vs grazing in Western NY? Winter crafts income? (We have very good summer grass around here, but enough snow in winter that supplemental feed is likely to be needed.)

Plan on feeding maximums, having to buy all hay, grain, bedding, etc., and go from there. Anything you can grow is then "gravy", and cushion, but a failed crop won't mean a failed livestock program.

Again, do *NOT* rely on the "winter crafts" as income. Consider it "extra" and make sure you can do what you want to do without it.

Originally Posted by dlskidmore

Had a good long talk with hubby last night. He's very laid back sort of person, so I have to make a strong effort to get his input so I don't accidentally steamroll him. He does want more equipment than I was planning, which means working a bit longer, and he wants a nice house that we're not going to have to renovate right away. (I was interested in modular building, but it looks like financing the land is tricky without a valuable house.)

I don't know if it's different in your area, but here, you wouldn't GET financing for <40 acres without a decent house and improvements on it. I also think that your DH has the right idea on equipment. If you're planning on raising the majority of your food -- say the "couple acres" of garden alone, equipment will make that easier, and more productive. Don't underestimate how much physical labour is involved. Raising that much of a garden is HARD WORK. Really, really hard work. It's enjoyable. It's rewarding, and I wouldn't want to NOT do it, but it is labour-intensive.

We raise, roughly estimated, about 80-90% of our own food and that is pretty much capacity for us. Not only could I not possibly do any more (I glean from the wild and neighbours, as well), but that's raising pretty much everything I *CAN* raise here. I put in at least four hours a day in my 3 large gardens through the growing season, and animal chores are above and beyond that. Once harvest hits, I work in the gardens and in my kitchen, getting it all put by, for at least 18 hours a day. We can between 800 and 1000 jars a year, and fill three large freezers with meat and assorted fruit and veg, a root cellar with root veg and fruit, and a grain room.

This is a full time job, times ten at times, and there is NO WAY I could have done this if I'd jumped into all of it that first year, and there is NO way I could have done it on the scale we're now doing it with infants or small children. My boys were relatively self-sufficient, and as we added more projects, they grew older and more capable of helping, rather than hindering, the process.

Again, I don't want to discourage you -- that isn't my purpose. I've been where you are and dreamed those dreams, and now I'm pretty much living it. However, my only warning is GO SLOW and don't count on things you haven't done yet to provide income.

It's harder than it looks, and more rewarding than you can possibly imagine

[Carol K]

I live in Western NY, purchase animals that do well on grass and hay alone. Your chickens will need some grains, but you shouldn't have to grain sheep if you pick the right breed, I don't grain my Katahdins at all and they do well.
Start slow, the advice you have received has been very good. Good luck to you,

Carol K

[dlskidmore]

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, really I'm not --

I'm a pessimist and planner by nature. More facts are better, even if it's disheartening.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Excellent! Money is good! More money is better! This lifestyle is a WHOLE LOT MORE expensive to start up than one might think, if you're starting from zero.

If I didn't want to have children, I'd keep on working until the place was paid off, but that personal goal gets harder as you get older.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Okay, doable, for the most part. But first, you have to realize that that "self-sufficient in food" is never 100%.

We currently buy 95% of our food, and that is already in the budget. Anything I can grow myself is gravy in the budget. The diet I eat is already low on grains and processed foods, but I'll still need staples like salt, sugar, vinegar, pectin, and the occasional out of season/climate veggies/fruits. I may also still buy all my milk products, I'm still on the fence about the family cow idea and won't be getting into that right away.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

If your property doesn't have a pre-existing orchard, it's going to take YEARS to get it producing

Of course. I do have three kinds of berries to transplant from my current yard, although they will probably go into shock and not produce for a year. I've contemplated asking my father to bring a tree on move-in day to get us started early on the orchard. I regret listing to mother 9 years ago when she said I wouldn't be living in this house long enough to make it worth planting trees...

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Animals and meat production can wait -- really, they can!

This is the area where I have the least experience. I'm eager to find out if I'm going to be able to get over killing and eating my own animals.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

if you have preexisting health issues, please don't put the pressure on yourself of assuming that you'll be healthier, so you can do more... The first few years of doing this are EXHAUSTING, and if that will negatively impact your recovery, you need to prioritize your recovery BEFORE your move.

I have been improving over the last year, and I really think ditching the desk job will help a lot. I am going to have to take things very slow. There is no way I can plan on doing everything in the big plan in the first year even if money and equipment was no issue.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

I don't know exactly where you're at, but less than 40 acres to lease where I live wouldn't be worth leasing by any local farmers. Remember, as well, that if the land is leased, you cannot make ANY improvements on it in the interim. Be very careful here -- and don't count on it to make your plan successful!

I'm mostly concerned here with keeping the land at the agricultural tax rate, I don't need the rent income to make the plan work. Would I be better off hiring out having it hayed twice a year?

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Yes, 1/4 acre is a nice start. A couple of acres worth of garden is better, but keep in mind that it's also nearly a full-time job -- especially if you don't use chemicals, and even more especially, if you aren't in it every single day. Weeds grow more quickly than vegetables -- a terrible truth! -- and you MUST be willing to spend several hours every day working in your garden if you want to raise "most" of your own food.

This sounds overly pessimistic to me. I grew up doing this with my family. We canned all our tomato products and froze the rest of our veggies for a family of five, and Dad held a full time job, and Mom was too disabled to work more than a little patch of flowers. Now the first years are harder, taming out the persistent weeds, but an established plot should not take up that much time. Dad always used grass clipping mulch and black plastic, last year I tried out a living clover mulch, which worked pretty well except on nettles. I've used straw mulch in my little garden at home to good effect. The landscape cloth stuff though was pretty useless, weeds grew under it and were just hidden and impossible to pull up. Insect and other pest issues were our biggest problems, which did require diligent inspection and different reactions for different pests.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Again, my suggestion would be to get your infrastructure set the first year (orchard, garden, pens, barn/stalls, water source, feed source) and ONLY when that is set up and running well, get livestock. The infrastructure is so very important to success -- you'll thank yourself in the long run.

I obviously will need some basic infrastructure to start with, but I don't want to put up enough rotational pens for 80 sheep and then find that I don't get along with my first three and want to get a tractor and do row crops instead.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Look into meat sale regulations in your area.

I know I need to sell large animals on the hoof, farmers regularly get away with acting as buyer's agent and managing the butcher fee and animal sharing, legality unknown. Poultry I can butcher on farm for a certain sale value per year, rabbits seem to fall into this hole in the law but most folk treat them like poultry. I am completely in the dark about regulations in the way the animals are fed/housed/medicated. The co-operative extension was pretty unhelpful in this area. Suggestion for next stop?

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Don't rely on "crafts" to bring in anything. Consider it an enjoyable extra, if it happens. With a worsening economy, things like this don't do well, unless you have a really unique, niche item, and then only for so long.

I have rudimentary skill in a product that usually sells for $300 and takes a few days labor. I intend to study this first and see if I can improve enough to get a salable product. I know my tatting won't bring in minimum wage for my efforts. People always tell me I should sell them, but they don't think about how many hours of labor go into it. From looking at some friends that do sell crafts, it's the dumb cutesy stuff that doesn't take long to make that turns a reliable (if small) profit. But yes, I'm not going to count on this, I want to be able to make it by with tight belts on hubby's income, my income will be for improving the farm and having some extras in life.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Extra income, even if it's only going toward increasing the cushion, is always a good idea, especially in the beginning. Don't underestimate how much of a change this lifestyle is and how much of an adjustment it requires. It's easier to do, ensuring long-term success, if you take things one step at a time, making conservative decisions, rather than jumping into everything concurrently.

I'm really uncertain on this one. Money makes everything easier, but the lifestyle change will suck lots of time and energy I won't have if I'm working.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Plan on feeding maximums, having to buy all hay, grain, bedding, etc., and go from there.

Another reason to start with a small flock

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

If you're planning on raising the majority of your food -- say the "couple acres" of garden alone, equipment will make that easier, and more productive.

I'm certainly NOT planning on doing it all by hand. I want a BCS 732 with electric start, and several attachments. Hubby wants to add on an ATV, Rokon, or more conventional tractor.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Once harvest hits, I work in the gardens and in my kitchen, getting it all put by, for at least 18 hours a day. We can between 800 and 1000 jars a year, and fill three large freezers with meat and assorted fruit and veg, a root cellar with root veg and fruit, and a grain room.

Yeah, I remember those days when I did that with Mom. This may be an issue between hubby and I, I grew up with this being a family chore, but he will not want to do a lot of this, it will be mostly up to me. Thank goodness sauce apples and tomatoes don't suffer from a little time in the freezer, to extend canning season out a bit.

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

This is a full time job, times ten at times, and there is NO WAY I could have done this if I'd jumped into all of it that first year, and there is NO way I could have done it on the scale we're now doing it with infants or small children.

But yet you suggest I keep the day job while trying to get started?

[dlskidmore]

Originally Posted by Tracy Rimmer

Excellent! Money is good! More money is better! This lifestyle is a WHOLE LOT MORE expensive to start up than one might think, if you're starting from zero.

I think I'm closer to 1%. I do have a lot of hand tools, a library, a small seed collection, and know a guy who will take his dear sweet time to bring his tractor over and plow for a fee.

[MullersLaneFarm]

Originally Posted by dlskidmore

We currently buy 95% of our food, and that is already in the budget. Anything I can grow myself is gravy in the budget.

I always raise extra of vegs I can barter with for what I don't raise myself.

I may also still buy all my milk products, I'm still on the fence about the family cow idea and won't be getting into that right away.

A cow or goat will keep you at home most of the year. Until you have children, I suggest a goat ... Nubian or the 'earless' ones(for rich creamy milk) or a Saanen for lower cream but more milk. You can train a cow or goat to be milked once a day.

Of course. I do have three kinds of berries to transplant from my current yard, although they will probably go into shock and not produce for a year.

Very true for fruit trees, but berry bushes will be bearing within a year.

I'm mostly concerned here with keeping the land at the agricultural tax rate, I don't need the rent income to make the plan work. Would I be better off hiring out having it hayed twice a year?

Depends if you can find someone to mow, rake & bale a small acreage. Around these parts, small acreages are the last to be done (less money to be made by the folks that have the equipment). The last time we hired out to mow/rake/bale the cost was .30 a small bale plus half the bales.

Yes, 1/4 acre is a nice start. A couple of acres worth of garden is better, but keep in mind that it's also nearly a full-time job -- especially if you don't use chemicals, and even more especially, if you aren't in it every single day. Weeds grow more quickly than vegetables -- a terrible truth! -- and you MUST be willing to spend several hours every day working in your garden if you want to raise "most" of your own food.

This sounds overly pessimistic to me. I've used straw mulch in my little garden at home to good effect.

[/QUOTE]

Sounds overly pessimistic to me also. I 'deal' with a blown out disc, degenerative joint disease and fibromyalgia on a daily basis. I spend about 15 minutes each day weeding in of my 35' x 75' vegetable & perennial herb/berry gardens . (I have a few herb gardens I tend to also as well as perennial flower gardens). Straw mulch is a gift from God!!! When I don't have enough mulch, I use old carpet strips to keep the weeds down (curbside finds).

I can all of my vegetable, fruits & a majority of our meats (chx, duck, beef, pork, turkey) by myself. Last year, just in corn & green beans alone, I put up over 300 jars. I don't know what my final count was, but I also put up peas, sauerkraut, pickles (sweet, dill, sweet relish & dill relish), beets, potatoes, tomatoes of all sorts (canned, stewed, salsa, pasta sauce, salsa), mushrooms, salsa verde, canned apples & peaches, apple & peach sauces, apple & peach pie mixes, strawberry jam, plum jam, horseradish & dehydrated a bunch of garlic, onion, celery and a bunch of other herbs.

When we process our meats, they all go into the freezers (one for pork, one for beef and one for poultry). I work my way through them canning until we can fit everything into one freezer. Just have one of those freezers go out on you and you can see why I prefer canned meat over frozen....

When I was working full time, I still kept up my garden, but I froze a lot more of my vegetables, fruits and meats

I'm no super human, but I do know what I can get done. When I was working full time up to two years ago, I would schedule my vacation to get most of my canning done during that time. Since I am now a stay-at-home farmer, I have plenty of time to chore the animals, tend the gardens and still have plenty of time to do my fiber arts!

[dlskidmore]

Hubby has been enthusiastically looking at properties online. We could probably save $600 a month if we go for a property that won't support all my business ideas. (Smaller, further out of town) I really have no idea how my untested ideas will work, so it's looking more financially viable at least in the short term to forget about the business. It's hard to let go of the idea though, I've got a notebook full of scribbles and plans... I'll have to re-figure the acreage minimums I'll settle for if the right price comes along.

Next month is the earliest we might start seriously looking to buy...

[dlskidmore]

If I give up on the business, lots of possibilities open up. There's a place we already have 20% down for, big house, 10 acres, mixed field and wooded. Needs some work, but has promise. I wouldn't say I'm in love with it, but from the pictures I've already picked out a sewing room.

If it's still on the market next month...

[cwgrl23]

Without knowing what kind of berries you have, I would suggest finding some of the smaller ones and transplanting them into pots now. This is only if you are looking at moving for sure yet before the snow flies this year. This is something you can do now and make sure you get a good root base when you dig. If you wait till you are moving, you might be in a rush and not get as many of the roots and then your berries dye. Ask me how I know this.

I do know that many blueberry varieties grow decently in pots. (5 gallon buckets can be used as pots) Right now many garden centers have bare root varieties for under $7. Get them and get them started. When you move you can leave them in their pots or plant them in the ground. At least you will have a 1 year jump on them producing instead of waiting to get them till next year. Strawberries do well in pots too. Ask around your area, as I am always giving strawberry plants away. Many always produce more extra plants then I have room to plant!

You could try asparagus in pots as well. They take 3 years or more to get going so get them started from bare root now will help.

If you do any of these ideas, make sure to dig the hole as big as the pot is or a bit bigger. You want to be able to slide everything that is in the pot to go into the whole. This will help minimize the transplant shock.

One thing I have done to help this is use bags. Now your mileage may very on this. When I am starting something in a pot that I know I am going to transplant later, I line the pot with a chunk of tarp or heavy plastic bag. Like when you put a new trash bag in your trash can. I do punch a few holes in the bottom of the plastic to let the water drain out. Then I fill with my dirt/potting soil/growing medium and plant the plant. When I am ready to transplant the plant, I dig a bigger hole the the pot. I can then lift the entire plant, dirt, and roots out of the pot due to the bag and set it all in the hole. Once in the hole I cut the bag off and pull it out. This helps me minimize disturbance of the roots of whatever I am transplanting. You could also line the pot with lots of newspaper that is printed on soy ink or even a cardboard box. I use the bags due to most of my plants are in the pots at least a year to get them establish. The newspaper and cardboard break down and don't always hold everything together in the time frame I need them to. On the upside, I don't have to cut the newspaper or cardboard off, though I do rip holes in it have it is in the hole to make sure that the roots can get out.

I do agree with everyone else about planting your fruits and berries first along with asparagus if you like the stuff. (I love the stuff!) Laying heavy cardboard, old carpet, old blankets to start killing the ground cover for your garden would be next in line. Even if it is too late for a garden this year, a layer of cardboard and/or newspaper covered with straw/leaves/manure/grass trimmings will help a lot for next years garden! This will kill the grass and weeds in your garden as well as add valuable nutrients to your soil. You can also throw all your compost items on your garden till you figure out where you want your pile. FarmRookie is our resident expert on all things compost pile related so I will defer to his knowledge there.

I too have some health issues and have had 6 surgeries in 3 years. These are all things that I do to help me work smarter not harder.

Please let me know if you have any questions about what I was talking about. My fingers don't always type as fast as my brain thinks. LOL Plus I am still working on that first pot of coffee.

Good luck on your new adventure!

Carrie in SD

[dlskidmore]

Half the stuff is in pots already. Blackberries trimmed back to a transportable size. We thought we might be moving a couple years ago when we were both out of work, and with the move continuously just over the horizon it never made sense to put them back in the ground. Strawberries were in pots all along to be able to keep moving into better sun. The raspberries are still in the ground. (I know the books say torch them and plant fresh canes, but I've done well enough letting nature do her thing.)

The blackberries are very wild. The berries taste better than the more tame variety though, so I don't mind the twice a year trim work. but I just didn't want those in the ground when we left the place, too much danger of the next folks not knowing how to deal with them and having to poison them out or let them take over the neighborhood. I got them from someone who couldn't get rid of them.

[dlskidmore]

Will likely be making an offer on 17 acres this weekend...

[ldc]

Great news! Hope your offer is accepted! Remember that NY State has a very developed Ag Extension system, and you could get topographical maps for the county you are looking to buy in (to see elevations and soil types).

[dlskidmore]

Yeah, I'll look into that more later, but in our price range and acreage range and commute range, we're just grateful to find some place that's not 50% grade or swamp... We're mostly paying for the house...

[gracie88]

This is the area where I have the least experience. I'm eager to find out if I'm going to be able to get over killing and eating my own animals.

Let your chickens free-range and don't fence your garden adequately. That will help you think blood-thirsty thoughts. It's really not so bad. If I start feeling squeamish, I remind myself how miserable a life the animals in CAFOs have, and how nice a life mine have, and how much better me killing them is than some predator. It doesn't make it more fun, but guilts me into getting the job done

[dlskidmore]

Went and toured the property yesterday, they did a disappointing job of the forest management, pretty much clear cut it where I would have done a worst-first thinning job. (They left this little screen of trees across the front so it looks like the forest is still there from the house.) We put in an offer anyway, the rest of the deal still looks good, the house and barn are in good shape. We're just a lot less flexible about price with an acre of recent clear cut. We bid low, but we're hoping they will ask some concessions in place of more cash. They probably need a lot of time to clear out the rest of the animals and we're in no hurry.

[dlskidmore]

I don't have the signed offer yet, but I'm picking out all my suppliers for later in the process. I've got my inspector (who does barn and septic work) and my lawyer lined up (who has worked with farms and small businesses as well as standard real estate.)

There may be some complications with dispersion of the herd on the land and with jointly owned fencing. I think these are all obstacles we can overcome if we don't contract ourselves into a corner. Should I get the free consult with the lawyer before I have a signed offer? I think it can wait, there's a standard clause in the offer about giving the lawyer 7 days to review the contract anyway.

[dlskidmore]

We have a counteroffer. It makes the budget squeak, but we can make it work if they throw in their old equipment, so we'll be drawing up another counteroffer tonight or tomorrow.

[TheMartianChick]

Best of luck to you!