Factory Chicken About to get Even Worse?

[buffalocreek]

Ugh, you say...


Industrial poultry about to get even crappier — literally | Grist

[haypoint]

At last. Finally getting the government fools out of our business. Everything the government does is messed up, so this will be lots better.

[chickenista]

I am so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so glad that I raise my own.
I can guarantee that I have no visible fecal matter on my birds when they go into the freezer. gack

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by haypoint

At last. Finally getting the government fools out of our business. Everything the government does is messed up, so this will be lots better.

Bought time the government steps back on a few things. I agree this will be better all the way around.

[Ozarks Tom]

The processing plants will most likely do a better job that the government. The plants can be sued, the govt can't.

The article in the OP had a definite slant to it. Quoting a "food and water" advocacy group isn't what I'd call impartial reporting. I noticed an absence of comment from the processors.

[DavidUnderwood]

There are those who will not rest untill there
is no meat in the supermarket. No eggs or milk,
either. That won't effect me much. BUT, they will
be just as diligent in stopping us all from producing
our own. Article is biased. I'm not buying.

[catknit]

This is actually quite interesting for me as I was a manager in one of the larger chicken producers kill plants.

From my experience - somewhat limited I will admit, I lasted only a year before I left due to burnout - I would not in any way, shape, or form allow a business to self regulate this. The stories I could tell .

Now, if this were a privatized 3rd party company [or companies] that would come in with some sort of skin in the game, I'd be all for it. But, the internal office politics and loose cannons that run a lot of the processing floors I've been on? Heck no.

I foresee a LOT of sick or dead people as well as future bankruptcies if this plan went into effect.

The managers on the floors care about productivity numbers only - meeting truck schedule - being just clean enough for the vet to not shut them down. It would get profoundly worse internally managed.

[big rockpile]

Ok the Birds are Gutted (yes every once in awhile someone S--ts a Bird but they are washed)USDA standing there with another person to pull the Bird USDA points to, Then a Vacuum is used to suck Lungs and such out,Then Crop is pulled,then they are washed,then Neck is cut off,then to Chiller.

Worst I ever seen was a Guy needed to go to the Restroom,they wouldn't let him go so he just hung it out and went in the trough where Guts go with Birds swinging by.

They Fired him but had to bring him back or lose a whole Days Kill.

big rockpile

[Steph in MT]

Originally Posted by catknit

This is actually quite interesting for me as I was a manager in one of the larger chicken producers kill plants.

From my experience - somewhat limited I will admit, I lasted only a year before I left due to burnout - I would not in any way, shape, or form allow a business to self regulate this. The stories I could tell .

Now, if this were a privatized 3rd party company [or companies] that would come in with some sort of skin in the game, I'd be all for it. But, the internal office politics and loose cannons that run a lot of the processing floors I've been on? Heck no.

I foresee a LOT of sick or dead people as well as future bankruptcies if this plan went into effect.

The managers on the floors care about productivity numbers only - meeting truck schedule - being just clean enough for the vet to not shut them down. It would get profoundly worse internally managed.

Yep..... Agree 100% The big companies are only concerned with profit. Husband was an inspector in a big chicken plant and the stories he tells are not pretty.

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

Why is it that the things we would like to see the Gov't do a better job at, they CUT, and the things where they get in the way, they EXPAND. Never makes a lick of sense to me.

[Home Harvest]

Corporations exist to create profits, but profits require customers. If the food is unsafe, they lose.

We have seen many recalls over the past several years. Aren't these recalls coming from government inspected plants? We've seen hamburger, peanut butter, salads, eggs...

My concern is that the inspector begins to side with the industry. He or she gets used to the process, and thinks nothing of what is on or in the poultry. Why trust the government to protect your family?

Maybe if things get bad enough people will say enough, and look for a better source. Chickens just aren't that hard to raise. I haven't had to eat store bought chicken in over 8 years.

[Harry Chickpea]

meh. If people would properly prep their store-bought birds at home this wouldn't be much of a problem. I always re-clean the cavity, and most times I'll then cut the bird into parts, inspect and wash them. The sanitary issues generally aren't in what you eat anyway, if it is cooked properly. The issues are in people not cleaning down counters, knives and hands after processing.

I'd like to continue the govt inspection, but I've seen enough damaged birds to know it isn't perfect either.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

meh. If people would properly prep their store-bought birds at home this wouldn't be much of a problem. I always re-clean the cavity, and most times I'll then cut the bird into parts, inspect and wash them. The sanitary issues generally aren't in what you eat anyway, if it is cooked properly. The issues are in people not cleaning down counters, knives and hands after processing.

I'd like to continue the govt inspection, but I've seen enough damaged birds to know it isn't perfect either.

Well, like some one said in one of the raw milk threads, "if you're gonna eat ----, cook it really well first."

This is why I'm starting to produce my own. Years as an army cook educated me on food born illness - if I get sick from my own supply, I got no one to blame but myself.

[big rockpile]

Talked with my Wife at Tysons in Rogers,Ark. she said they never seen USDA.

big rockpile

[arabian knight]

When I worked in a chicken wholesale distributor. The area USDA Inspector was there everyday. And every fees months maybe up to 6 months the State USDA inspector showed up. Then once a year the Federal USDA Inspector.
Just a few miles from me there is a Golden Plump Processing factory.
And I had a tour of the place when I was thinking of working there, and the inspectors were stood behind the workers that were on the line watching them from inside another room that looked out on the floor.
ALL USDA Inspectors IMO are Veterinarians that could not either make the cut to become a vet, or didn't have what it takes to work with the public.
But everyone I have met ALL had DVM before their name.

My close friend also took a job at a factory in Madison WI. at milk plant as a USDA Inspector but didn't want to move to that city. ( And I don't blame for that either.) LOL
But all in all the chicken industry is watched closely, and is full of inspectors, as I have first hand knowledge, and my dad also was a health inspector for a large city in WI and also made health inspections.
We DO need USDA Inspectors, at all phases of the food process.
Just like now when the Processing plants for horses get up and running in a few states they for sure need to be USDA Inspected.

[texican]

Who? Who, when they buy chicken at the market, blindly puts it in a pot and cooks it and eats it? Don't know about ya'll, but anytime I buy meat, I look at it closely at the market first, then when it gets home, it gets an even better looking over, and then a good scrubbing. Anything I don't wanna eat gets cut off and fed to the dogs. Then, if chicken, I cook it thoroughly (pull out the meat thermometer and check)... no exceptions.

We rarely eat chicken... and we're literally surrounded by them (free range birds). The dogs eat chicken several times a week.

[salmonslayer]

In reading the article and some of the links it looks like this is just an expansion of a program that has been around since the 1990s. I dont know if this is such a great idea but I am kind of with Texican on this one, who just pops their meat in the pot without cleaning it up?

I must confess that until we embarked on our homesteading/farming journey a few years ago I never gave it much thought and to be honest I never really liked chicken unless it was fried or orginated from pink slime (love them chicken nuggets). We now get our free range freshly slaughtered and never frozen chickens from a local farmer and the difference in taste is as big as the difference between a store bought tomato and an heirloom tomato just picked from the garden.

For the people who have or still work in a chicken processing plant, it sounds like the USDA doesnt inspect all that well now; will this change much and is there an adequate way to trace outbreak sources?

[big rockpile]

Turkey Plant I worked had maybe dozen USDA.I worked one Plant Deboning they had one.

USDA being mostly Veterans!

big rockpile

[catknit]

USDA at a kill plant is different from USDA at a cook plant. Big Rockpile - is your wife's plant a cook plant? Maybe where they make breaded tenders or nuggets? Also, certain departments are very rarely visited by USDA people because those areas are lower risk [for example, the office supply stock room -stored ball point pens probably won't cause foodborne illness].

In a kill plant there are 3 levels on inspectors: line inspectors who are to check EVERY chicken for wholesomeness [at the plant where I worked - there were 12 inspectors working 3 lines in the evis department and every, single bird went through their station, the line was color coded with color coded viscera trays - you'd need to be legally blind not to see the bird in front of you], floor inspectors who may walk ANYWHERE in the plant and can tag and shut down anything, and the vets who may also walk anywhere, request any written reports and can shut down the whole plant. The vet may not re-open the whole plant, they can only request the next level up [which is typically a regional level management person] to reopen a plant. The vet may re-open parts of the plant that the floor inspector shut down.

Additionally, many producers have state graders through, I think, AMS, who come in and check grading at least daily. You may not use the USDA grade sheild on packaging with out having paid for this service.

I met about 5 different vets in the year I was there. The two vets assigned to that plant were right out of vet school and one went into FSIS because it helped pay down her student debt faster or gave her a better interest rate or something...it wasn't her first choice per say, but financially she knew she would have a big leg up. Also, all the major producers have R&D facilities that would pay very, very nicely for a former USDA vet. Not everyone wants to be a pet or farm vet. Some do want a 40 hour work week with a big corporation.

The USDA pulls random birds every day for salmonella testing and I think the current standard is only one in 52 birds can test positive after entering 2nd processing. 1st processing is hang/stun/kill/dress - 2nd processing is post-chiller [which is a cold chlorine-spiked bath]. In second processing a variety of things can happen, whole birds are packaged, some are sent to "deli" where they are injected with marinades and are packaged for grocery stores to be cooked on site, some birds are cut up into parts.

USDA floor inspectors check packaging, check in-process meat temps, check belts and machinery for stuck product, check the live bird conditions, and general housekeeping.

A general rule was that in no individual department could more than 10 pieces of meat be on the floor at a time. That may seem pretty reasonable and simple however when you have a line that has 800 chicken wings a minute passing by and the line workers are supposed to pack out 40 wings a minute - and there are only 14 people working that line. Well, math proves to be the devil in the detail. The wings didn't "circulate" on that line and return back, they literally hit a stopper, piled up, and on occasion fell on the floor. Think I Love Lucy and the candy conveyer. So, in my case, the vet LOVED to visit my department and see the wing situation. My department sucessfully shut down the lines anywhere from 10 minutes to 45 minutes a night [just in 2nd processing - 1st processing always ran 2 hours ahead because the chiller took 2 hours to complete its process].

For me, in my former position, I was always being hounded by USDA - and rightfully so. Time and temperature abused food can kill. Simple as that.

The management above me wanted to scam anything and everything they could to keep their numbers up. My boss would change labels on bulk work-in-progress product - so it would still be sellable - to not loose yield. Quality and safety didn't matter to him. Meeting trucks and high yields were paramount. And, I do get it, it's a business, they need to make money. But, at what cost? A couple of grandmothers? Maybe a toddler? Higher up management found out what was going on and showed him the door - but he was able to reak havoc for 6 months before they felt they had enough solid information to fire him.

In a 50,000+ sqft building with 1000 employees/shift and only 15-16 USDA people on site, stuff can EASILY be missed - and idiots like the guy I used to work for know this and try to exploit this to seem like a much more "successful" manager.

Which sort of hints on one of the things that I noticed with respect to the poultry industry here [and there are many producers where I live]. They are SO afraid of wrongful termination lawsuits and getting back onto the Department of Labor's radar screen that human resource departments will allow a LOT to happen prior to a termination. Doesn't matter if the person is general labor/line worker or salaried manager - the benefit of doubt was granted time and again. Personel files would be bursting with issues and maybe someone would be terminated - it was maddening for me.

[fishhead]

Earlier this week I watched a political party "get government out of the way" by preventing an increase in the fine for DELIBERATELY spreading invasive species like zebra mussels and dramatically decreasing the property values of lake home owners. I'll bet they would be screaming like crazy if THEIR lake became infested with zebra mussels and would be the first to raise the penalty to fit the crime.

Then they went on to divert money from insuring that donated venison is free from lead contamination. As part of their argument they claimed that 'a little lead never hurt anyone not even children' and they asked members of the other party 'have any of your constituents ever gotten lead poisoning?

It was a real eyeopener at how far the crazies have gotten into our legislature and probably congress.