Goat vs cow, the age old question..

[unregistered168043]

OK so I've been homesteading for a few years now. I have chickens, raise most of their feed, grow enough veggies to eat year round, and heat completely with wood now. Its time to 'up my game' and I'm considering a couple cows or goats. My goal is, as always, self reliance. So which would help me achieve this better? The one thing that bothered the heck out of me about chickens is the reliance on buying feed..you're not really self reliant if you need to rely on store bought feed and at the end of the year you might have spent as much on feed as you would have spent on eggs and chicken at the super market!

This was unacceptable to me and I made it my ambition to grow all my own chicken feed and allow them to free forage during the warm months. I had really good luck with it and now I only buy feed as an occasional addition to their diet during winter. So now my thoughts have turned to milk, manure, and meat.

I know that many types of cattle are good rangers and can survive on grass only ( highlands, jerseys). I have about 5 good acres of pasture and two more 'marginal' acres, the rest is all woods, brush and vegetable space. It seems like everything I read suggests that goats cannot forage all their food and must be supplemented with grain(?).

At first glance a goat just seems easier. Smaller, easier to handle, requiring less space, less food, etc. The cow, being able to live on grass and hay is a huge advantage to someone with good pasture and the desire for self reliance. I'm going to have to build a structure for whatever I get so smaller would be so much easier, though. IDK.

What are your thoughts? Do you agree that goats need supplemental grain? My neighbor has cows and feeds them only grass and hay from his own field ( same native grass as me ) and they seem to be doing fine.

[wolffeathers]

I think almost any dairy animal will need grain(or alfalfa) supplement for optimal production. Cows will make more use of grass pasture, as goats prefer to browse.

We have 5 acres of pasture and still had to supplement our cow to keep her in condition and for her production. It will depend on the individual cow, you're pasture quality and your expectations for production.

We decided to sell our cow and buy goats for dairy. We figured we were having to buy alfalfa and grain anyway for a cow, might as well just switch to goats and feed less and be able to have more per acre and be able to alternate their production. I always felt bad that we had a lone cow, when she came into heat the neighbor's bull would take down the fence to get to her. Luckily he was an angus and not a larger breed.

So goats work better for us. Once we move to larger place and have more than 5 acres we may try a cow again, but we will always have goats.

[Bearfootfarm]

Do you agree that goats need supplemental grain?

It depends on what you expect from the goats.

If you have dairy goats, and want good milk production, you will need to feed them grain

If you have meat goats and want them to grow as fast as possible to reach market size, you will have to feed them grain

If you are raising them for your own consumption, and can wait longer, grains aren't needed.

Pet goats and ones kept for clearing brush don't need extra feed

[unregistered168043]

I only need enough for my own use, a little milk and cheese, I'll eat the kids even if they are scrawny. I'm not selling any and I don't need to maximize production. Same with my chickens, I get more than enough eggs and chicken to feed myself but I know I'd get many more if I used commercial feed and artificial lighting.

My needs are strictly for self use. And my goal is to minimize outside inputs ($). Another advantage that might be for goats is I can let that pasture grow up, since they are browsers, and use less fuel mowing it ($). For optimal grass I would have to mow to crowd out all the crazy weeds and such that pop up so fast.

[Lizza]

It all depends on what you want and what your goals are. My short answer is goats are easier all around, on feed, housing, handling, and easier keepers. That said I loved my cows, if it were completely up to me, I would have a milk cow and just a few pet goats but right now we only have a herd of dairy goats (mostly show and a couple of grades). We are moving but once we move I am going to replace my milk cow that I lost last fall (poisoning).

Any dairy animal should have some grain, you ask a lot out of a milk animal, and it is only fair to help with extra calories, can it be done without grain, sure, but it is harder on the animal and your milk production won't be very high.

[Lizza]

Originally Posted by Darntootin

I only need enough for my own use, a little milk and cheese, I'll eat the kids even if they are scrawny. I'm not selling any and I don't need to maximize production. Same with my chickens, I get more than enough eggs and chicken to feed myself but I know I'd get many more if I used commercial feed and artificial lighting.

My needs are strictly for self use. And my goal is to minimize outside inputs ($). Another advantage that might be for goats is I can let that pasture grow up, since they are browsers, and use less fuel mowing it ($). For optimal grass I would have to mow to crowd out all the crazy weeds and such that pop up so fast.

Goats are browsers, they won't like your grass only pasture, browsers want things like bushes, brambles, and they'll love to kill your trees ripping off the bark. If you are thinking to toss some dairy animals on some grass pasture and calling it good, please don't. You will need to supplement with alfalfa or alfalfa pellets and grain.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by morningstar

Goats are browsers, they won't like your grass only pasture, browsers want things like bushes, brambles, and they'll love to kill your trees ripping off the bark. If you are thinking to toss some dairy animals on some grass pasture and calling it good, please don't. You will need to supplement with alfalfa or alfalfa pellets and grain.

Maybe cattle then? My neighbor does well with his cows on pasture/hay. I've heard that Highlands are breed that can thrive even on fair pasture and they even browse like goats sometimes too.
Ultimately I'm looking for an animal to provide me with a little bit of milk, a bit of meat, and manure. That stuff is expensive around here, I call it 'brown gold'. My chickens just don't produce enough.

[Lizza]

Originally Posted by Darntootin

Maybe cattle then? My neighbor does well with his cows on pasture/hay. I've heard that Highlands are breed that can thrive even on fair pasture and they even browse like goats sometimes too.
Ultimately I'm looking for an animal to provide me with a little bit of milk, a bit of meat, and manure. That stuff is expensive around here, I call it 'brown gold'. My chickens just don't produce enough.

I haven't heard great things about milking highlands but have no experience.

If I were you I would look into a dual purpose meat/milk breed, don't go with a strictly dairy breed, my feeling is that would have too high of needs for you. Something like a Jersey/Beef cross might do well for you or maybe Dexter's. I don't know a lot about Dexter's but being dual purpose I would think they would do better on grass alone then something like a Jersey.

[pancho]

Goats would probably be the best for you. You may have to milk several depending on the amount of milk you want.
For manure, goats would be better but they will scatter it all over the place unless you have a place they spend the night in. Rabbits would be better for manure and you get to eat then also.

[ajaxlucy]

I've never kept any dairy animals, so my advice isn't worth much, but a friend who was a vet in Sudan said that the people there didn't grain feed their cows. They shared milk with the calf and took enough for their own uses. Production was a lot lower than here, especially when water was limited, but they'd done it that way for a long time.

If you just wanted some milk for personal use, it might be possible in this country, too.

[Lizza]

Originally Posted by ajaxlucy

I've never kept any dairy animals, so my advice isn't worth much, but a friend who was a vet in Sudan said that the people there didn't grain feed their cows. They shared milk with the calf and took enough for their own uses. Production was a lot lower than here, especially when water was limited, but they'd done it that way for a long time.

If you just wanted some milk for personal use, it might be possible in this country, too.

Keep in mind, our animals here in the United States, especially commercial dairy breeds (this includes Jersey's to some extent) have been bred for high production for a very long time. Taking a high production animal and then just cutting grain out for her is not going to go well. If people want a grass only herd, they need to make sure they select a line of animals that have been bred for that. Animals in the Sudan will have been bred for different qualities. Just my .02.

[FarmboyBill]

U say you have 5 acres good pasture land. What are you going to use for hay land?? U may want to have goats, (Tho ill be rid of mine HOPEFULLY Tues, and get a couple cows. BUT, If your going to buy MILK goats. MAKE SURE you get great producers. The kind most people get will give around 1.2 gal a day. The best will give near to 1 gal a milking., The wowrst eat near as much as the best THEY WILL need grain to make babies and milk also. Without it they take calcium fromm their own bodies, and pretty soon your animal goes down in the back. DONT ask me how I know. Thank the X for me loseing 2 jerseys. Your goats can browse the woods. They wont hurt them as bad as some say. Im not sure mine ever went into my woods. Never saw them there. Usually I saw them in my pasture ground.

[CIW]

Have you thought about a Brown Swiss cow? They originated on marginal pastures of the swiss alps. They have a really good butterfat content if you are interested in cheese making. The breed is very docile. They have a more substantial structure giving them the ability to cross well with most beef breeds.
There are ways to make the cow more than pay for any financial input (ie. grain, vet bills, artificial insemination, and housing) that you would put out. I don't think it could be done with goats.
That cow has the potential to raise between 5 and 8 calves to weaning annually. If you sell them as grass calves you would only have the initial cost of purchasing the additional calves and the added feed it takes to keep the cow.
Another option is to purchase some weaner pigs and raise them on corn soaked in milk. It makes for some good meat. Sell the pigs off and it pays you for your inputs.
These processes aren't something new. They have been used sucessfully for many decades.
If I might suggest. Self reliance doesn't always lead in a straight line. Sometimes you may have to produce excess of one item in order to trade or purchase your way back to what you need but can't produce.

[Sonshine]

Since you're growing grain for your chickens, could you enlarge the crop to cover a dairy animal? We'll be planting a critter garden this year with corn, sunflower and peanuts. (the peanuts we'll eat, but the peanut hay will be fed to the animals. Also, why not plant some alfalfa?

[shdybrady]

what I would suggest is stick to some heritage breeds. Its the same comparison as a rhode island red compared to a cornish cross chicken. It doesnt produce or reach maturity as well as a high production animal. But they tend to be much more hardy. In you situation I was suggest a kiko goat. You can milk them but they wont produce much. But if its for individual use then it will be plenty. The way the kiko goat came about was farmers in new zealand this breed and decided to make the strong survive and we weak parish. They didnt use any medicine or intervened really in any way. The end result was a hardy goat that could survive on its own

[Old Vet]

Originally Posted by morningstar

Goats are browsers, they won't like your grass only pasture, browsers want things like bushes, brambles, and they'll love to kill your trees ripping off the bark. If you are thinking to toss some dairy animals on some grass pasture and calling it good, please don't. You will need to supplement with or alfalfa pellets and grain.

Try to tell that to the 12 that are now eating my grass back. They sometimes browse but are doing fine on grass which they prefer along with grain and alfalfa You cant run them into the woods here.

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by shdybrady

what I would suggest is stick to some heritage breeds.

Admittedly I am without significant experience to back up this position, I really like the idea of heritage breeds and want to go that route eventually, but to start wouldn't an el-cheapo mixed breed be a better idea? That way errors cost less and if these animals are bound for home use slaughter rather than breeding stock, why double or triple your upfront investment?

[geo in mi]

It's been many years since I milked cows, but I still have a few opinions to throw into the mix. One: have you tasted goat's milk and do you like it? (I don't.) Two. Cows are also browsers--they will mow down your saplings, your understory growth, and then they will strip leaves off trees as high as they can reach. If you plan to use your woods for sustainable woodlot cutting, goats or cows will eventually put an end to that. Three. Small, but important point, cows are social animals, you really should have two.... Four. You have to keep breeding dairy animals--what will you do for a bull or billy, and what will you do with any bull calves? What will you do with any heifer calves, for that matter? Five. An obvious one, what about fencing? Six. Do you plan to take any days off, or go anywhere overnight? Seven. The rations a dairy animal will need--grain and supplements--will also depend on the time they come fresh. In wintertime, they will need more than during the summer, but I have always believed in treating and feeding an animal like I would treat myself is the best policy.

Just because I like cows --and cow's milk better, that's where my inclination would be.

Again, my opinions.

geo

[jwal10]

I have 3 pygora goats that I rotate and milk. They give me meat, milk and fiber. Gives me enough milk without much grain. I feed some oats, heavy screenings and a little hand made loose hay. Cattle, I would have a 1/2 jersey, 1/2 angus cow and not feed much grain. Breed it angus for the calf to butcher. They are smaller and the cross makes a hardy animal. Next would be 1/2 angus, 1/2 dexter....James

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

It's been many years since I milked cows, but I still have a few opinions to throw into the mix. One: have you tasted goat's milk and do you like it? (I don't.) Two. Cows are also browsers--they will mow down your saplings, your understory growth, and then they will strip leaves off trees as high as they can reach. If you plan to use your woods for sustainable woodlot cutting, goats or cows will eventually put an end to that. Three. Small, but important point, cows are social animals, you really should have two.... Four. You have to keep breeding dairy animals--what will you do for a bull or billy, and what will you do with any bull calves? What will you do with any heifer calves, for that matter? Five. An obvious one, what about fencing? Six. Do you plan to take any days off, or go anywhere overnight? Seven. The rations a dairy animal will need--grain and supplements--will also depend on the time they come fresh. In wintertime, they will need more than during the summer, but I have always believed in treating and feeding an animal like I would treat myself is the best policy.

Just because I like cows --and cow's milk better, that's where my inclination would be.

Again, my opinions.

geo

1. Yes I have tries goats milk and like it

2. I would fence off the 5 or so acres

3. Planning on 2

4. For cattle i would go AI. For goats I might get a billy and just run him with the herd full time. Bull calves would be sold or slaughtered. Heifer/does might be kept or sold/slaughtered

5. I need fencing

6. I have a girl here who house sits for $. She knows animals and works here on other farms.

7. Thats the issue, I don't want to buy any grain...maybe I could grow some.