Where to start

honeyrobber · #1 02/17/12, 02:22 PM

I have been searching the web for weeks with little to no luck. I was raised growing a big garden and hunting on the farm. The farm was for nursery stock. Dad's farm is now mostly a berry farm consisting of blackberries, blueberries, blackberry/raspberry hybrids, and raspbarries in order of what he has the most of. I am same as homeless after a nasty divorce and having to pay child support with my health issues keeping me from having a job and yet can not get disability(broke back 10 years ago on the job). I do the farmers markets locally and now have use of some farms that were purchased as investment properties. I do remodeling type work when I can get jobs I can handle by myself and have the tools.

I see some things about being frugal and getting things done cheap. After paying childsupport auto insurence and other neccessities last year I had about $4,000 to feed, cloth and house myself. I plan on living on one of these farms but it has no clean water source(I can shower and such at Dad's place as I am there during growing months 3 times or more a week). I plan to use a pond that is way up the hillside to irrigate crops. I need this ground turned and have no money to pay for it to be done. I have a good rototiller to use once the ground is broke. The price given to me by the people I have called for this 5-7 acres tillable spot is $300 to turn then disc. I have some seeds saved and will need to purchase more as the season goes but that is normal.

So with no spare cash how can you get started even with free use of land?

Plan is to sleep in the back of my truck(camper top) so no structure is on the property how to I go about getting clean water without hauling it from a spring 11 miles away?

What is a good source of meat when living off the land like this? Would like to raise goats in the woods but no start up funds(fencing). I have a few fantail pigeons and a few homing type pigeons at dad's that I thought about moving and trying squab raised from these but lack funds for a loft. Rabbits are a good option as well but no funds for hutches.

Just please point me in a direction that can give me hope to increase my income so I can truely live again. Surviving is not living. I wish your frugal page was set up where each idea was listed seperately as I do not have hours and hours to read all of them. I have made lye soap before it got impossible to get lye localy. I have raised and killed rabbits, chickens and quail for food. I was hoping it was God will that I found an article in a mag left on the side walk at the farmers market last fall as my way to a better life. But there is nothing on the web about starting with nothing/ near nothing and making something from it.

Thanks, John

**Terri** · #2 02/17/12, 04:28 PM

Honeyrobber, can you make a dove cote with scavanged lumber? Some people will ask businesses for used pallets and then take them apart for lumber: some businesses re-use palets and some do not.

Can you learn to set up snares for rabbits? Do you have a gun you can borrow to hunt with? Rabbits adore beets, and beet seeds at the Dollar General cost 35 cents a package. If the rabbits eat the beets you have a chance to snare them: if the rabbits leave the beets alone you can either eat the beets or sell them at the farmers market.

As for breaking the ground before you till, how rough is it? You might TRY the tiller on it, without breaking it first!

You might also try a pick your own method to market some of those berries.

OH! For right now you might post cards "Have tiller will travel" at the local grocery stores. Folks in Tn should be starting their gardens now??? I think.

hannahbluehorse · #3 02/17/12, 04:32 PM

Look at places as you drive around the neighborhood. Maybe someone has an old camper you can buy for a hundred bucks or can have if you haul it away. Way better than living in the back of your truck.

Chickens don't need much. They can free range which helps with the feed costs. They do need a secure place to roost. I would make a coop from free pallets and a $10 tarp. You could raise meat birds and egg layers and sell them at the farmers market. Maybe a neighbor would sell you a few including a rooster cheap to start your flock.

Water is tougher. The sand point, casing, pump, and other elements of a driven well will cost about $600. Driving a well only works if you have water within 25 feet of the surface and no rocks in the way but you could end up with drinkable water. Have it tested first. Get permission from the landowner before you put in anything permenant since it may raise the taxes. How far away is the pond? I think the last time I bought a coil of black plastic water pipe it was about $15 for 100 feet of 3/4 inch. If the pond is higher than where you are living, you could weight one end of the pipe, put it in the pond, put the other end where you are living with a valve on it, and start a siphon. You have to fill the whole pipe up with water and submerge the pond end to start a siphon. As long as the pipe and valve don't have any leaks you can turn on the valve and the siphon will start the water flowing. Turn off the valve and the siphon stops flowing. If you have to go farther than 100feet check into buying a longer piece of pipe or joining some together. The flow will slow down with the longer piece of pipe but will still flow. I wouldn't drink this water but you can use it for the chickens, irrigation, showers, and boiled for washing dishes. Get a 5 gallon camping water container and fill it up at dads, when you are there, for drinking water.

Grow a big garden. You will have chicken poop to put on it for fertilizer. Check out what it takes to call your produce organic. Folks will pay more for organic veges. You can take the produce, eggs, and chickens to the farmers market to earn money. Sometimes local restaurants will buy your produce to get the freshest.

Good Luck

chewie · #4 02/17/12, 04:50 PM

first, welcome. second, sorry for your streak of hard luck. it happens to all of us, and this too shall pass. remember that! easier said than done, I know.

now--if you truly have nothing...I know you want to live on this place but what about being a live-in care taker for an elderly? you get room/board and a small pay usually. after some time you could then go back to the farm. might be possible to live in town this way, get a bike and save vehicle costs.

let everybody know you are available for odd jobs too. I am a SAHM, and I cant count how many weird offers i've gotten! rake hay for 2 days; a secratary for a traveling photographer for another 2 days; go to a city 3 hours away for a part, using their pickup; work in the office of the sale barn. lots of oddball jobs, and often they pay pretty good cuz nobody else has the time! try to get work in a cafe, and you'll get free food.

for good meat, deer. pheasant isn't too bad, and as you said, rabbit. and you can let the local police know you'd come for a hit deer too, if they aren't too messed up.

and in your situation, please do visit a food pantry, or get food stamps, that's what they are for. it doesn't sound like you are a system user, so please, do not feel bad at using what you need!!

I highly suggest not getting livestock til you are a bit more on your feet. the initial cost of them is nothing compared to the ongoing upkeep. that's what really adds up for me--feed, meds., and worst of all, the emergencies that WILL pop up. i love my own hens eggs, but store bought eggs are way cheaper. at this point you are goign to need to just do what you have to get by and get going upwards.

there are lots of ideas for feeding yourself pretty cheap here. ramen noodles, drop in an egg and its a meal. beans, tons of beans. oatmeal. none of this is hard to fix over a camper stove.

I wish you all the best, it does sound like you have a pretty rough time right now, but it'll make you stronger in the long run.

nostawmama · #5 02/17/12, 05:37 PM

Don't forget to take advantage of the "free" and "barter" sections of craigslist if that is something that is big in your area. I have not been in such a situation before but I am notorious for being stingy and this is a resource that should not be overlooked. Some times all it takes is asking for things that you need whether it be building materials, livestock, etc. and if you could barter your skills so much the better. Good luck in your ventures.

ronbre · #6 02/17/12, 05:47 PM

John I have a friend near Bee Springs KY, they can never find good help down in their area..maybe you could do odd jobs for people for money??

honeyrobber · #7 02/18/12, 04:20 AM

I do odd jobs when I run across them. I am currently parked behind a Mcdonalds using the wifi. I regularly sleep in this cold in the front seat of my truck at a few different places. The problem for me is that until I can get enough money for a lawyer and get the child support down I can not live. I had a factory job when the child support was set. That shop closed up 3 years ago. I do not qualify for food stamps due to the fact I make money and I am single. My choices are live like I am or go to jail for not paying child support.
Never learned how to make snares but I got 8 hav-a-heart traps mostly used to keep the coon out of the sweet corn. I put a deer in the freezer at dads this fall. I have a 22 rifle but no other gun of my own. Dad has over planted berries. He has a habit of taking a good thing and over doing it. Just me and him picking we picked upto 90 gallon a week of blackberries and 10 of blueberries. That season is when I catch my child support back up for the last 3 years. I have to expand to make enough money to keep myself up. The pond is near the back property line and has a good long drop. I was planning on it being gravity fed for watering the plants. Plan was to use a pump on my battery drill to get the pipe full to start syphon. this water would not work to bath or do dishes as the run off it collects is off a cow pasture and the water stays green all summer. And no way you can use a hand drive well system around here to much limestone bedrock. On this farm there are even a few rock outcrops to go around with a tractor. I rented a tractor 2 seasons ago and planted pumpkins there. If I could wait til my season got started it would work again but I need a larger early crop. I feel this is what is holding me back. I start every year behind in child support so it takes me to mid season to get going good. Then I finish the season and order seeds for next year while I have the cash. The odd jobs keep me alive but not much more during winter. This farm is 30 acres but has about 6 acres in front then woods through the steeper grade(not steep but not farmable due to rock anyway) then about 10-12 in back but this feild is full of wild blckberries to the point you can not push through them. With me doing some carpentry type odd jobs I do get some used and scrap lumber. Caging small animals and birds though you need a good wire and it not cheap. I got another descent job next week laying ceramic tile and plan to use that money for gladolia bulbs as fresh cut flower sales have helped me improve sales. Any ideas to get cheaper seeds and things along these lines welcome. I also got to pay for my permanent spot at the market in a couple weeks($250) which I got $200 set back for. But this farm is to rocky for my small tiller to go over while covered in grass.

Danaus29 · #8 02/18/12, 04:47 PM

I've seen heavy chain link fencing available for free if the person removes it. Lots of places here advertise free pallets if you pick up. Some people I know cruise through neighborhoods and pick up scrap setting out at the curb before the trash gets to it.

Do they have a legal aid office where you can get help? While it is important to provide for your children, you should not have to be homeless and starving because the payments are more than you make.

Are the rocks large enough for you to use them as sides for raised beds? You might be able to get free dirt, sand or manure just for the hauling.

Kaitlin · #9 02/18/12, 05:01 PM

Supermarkets like Lidl and Aldi have very cheap veg seeds. I buy them myself for our farm!

whiterock · #10 02/18/12, 05:22 PM

crates and cages used to be made of limb prunings, tie em together with wire. Seeds are cheap in small amts at dollar store, i got some seed at wal mart last year at .50 a pkt with far more seed than the $1 or $2 pkts. Off brand, but they germinated well.

Pallet lumber has been used to build some nice looking chickencoops, tied side to side will make a passable fence, compost bin, shelter for small livestock. Walls made of pallets, floor of pallets, a few poles ropes and a tarp will make a sizeable tent.

Ask folks to save plastic jugs for water. Old GF of mine kept buying tea, 5 gallons or so a week, I saved the jugs for many uses. Heavier than milk/bought water gal jugs.

Any fish in that pond?

How old are you? How much longer will the child support last? If the kids are young, and you got years to go, borrow the money to go back to court. Kids need support, to be sure, but you got to have some relief or you won't be able to support them long.

Craigslist, freecycle, penny papers.

Capt Quirk · #11 02/18/12, 05:29 PM

We lived in tents, with no clean water on property for almost a year. At first, we were going into town with gallon jugs, but Wal Mart was charging like .79 a gallon at the refill machine. We found a road side ice house, where you fill a bag out of the chute for a buck and change. They had a faucet and hose on the side for rinsing coolers, cost of water went down immensely

From there, we went to filling a 55 gallon food grade barrel, and eventually got a 12v water pump. If Dad lives close by, you should be able to fill it there.

Housing is your next issue. The back of a truck will work only for so long. A larger tent would give you more comfort.

Food... depends on how picky you are. Squirrels and rabbits aren't bad, and will likely be fairly plentiful. Snakes, turtles, armadillos, and possums are all edible too, and easy to hunt.

If you have the will, you can find a way. Good luck to you.

Big Dave · #12 02/18/12, 06:52 PM

You are so blessed and don't see it. I reared my daughter as a single dad.We were homeless twice. Yep we lived in our car once. I repoed cars in Chattanooga and lived at the office I worked out of. You say you have land. Man if only we had that it would have been great. You are not neglecting your children and if you keep it up it will turn around for you, Keep in mind to also visit with them to let them see who you are and how you live. Why will you not stay with your dad? I have given blood plasma and that gave us money. Start picking up cans. Find scrap metal and take it to your place. When you have enough sell it to the scrap yard. Starting from nothing Bud I have been there. You want to talk PM me. I now have two small business's and am starting to work on another project this spring. You may understand this. NO ONE, EVEN YOUR GOVERNMENT WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU. Live by your wits and if you do not have any, you are pooched.

honeyrobber · #13 02/18/12, 11:27 PM

I am in a warm bed tonight at a friends house. When your world gets as bad as mine you find out who your true friends are. Going to church in morning. I have not lost hope. God has us endure things to make us better people. Dad is a horder and there is no room in the house. You can not even get to but one chair in the livingroom where he sits. His farm is paid for but is to close to town to live there in a tent camper without someone saying you dumping sewage ect as my sister parked her motor home there for a few weeks and someone turned it is as dumping waste and no one was using it, lol.

The property I have use of has rock fences. Thin layers of limestone . Raised beds are nice for small scale and I have a couple at dad's for garlic. they have their good and bad points. I do have a few rolls of used drip line. He used it 2 years and quit growing nurserystock.

Isn't chainlink to big of holes for rabbits and pigeons? I have always used 1/2 or 1/4 hardware cloth for bottoms of cages. I guess I could make solid bottoms and scrape them out. do not know why that had not came to me until a few minutes ago. Please keep the ideas coming.

lmrose · #14 02/19/12, 01:38 PM

This won't help you this growing season; but in the fall if you might could find someone with free old bales of hay or haylage. You spread it thickly over sod ground and leave it all winter until Spring planting time. Then roll back the hay or haylage and be surprised to find the sod ground all rotted up! Use a five tined dung fork to level the earth. Add what compost or manure you have. That also can sometimes be found for free in exchange for cleaning out an old barn. Use a hoe to make rows and plant the seeds.

We have a small ten acre farm and experimented with a half acre sod plot. My husband said it was the easiest sod ground he has ever broke up!

lmrose · #15 02/19/12, 02:27 PM

We started this little farm with no modern equipment, no extra money and two children to feed and ourselves. My husband grew up on a dairy farm and worked with horses so he had a good idea of how to get a farm started.

In our case we had a 700 lb work pony and rebuilt old thrown away farm machienery, recycled and remade old harnesses and took advantage of free seaweeed near the ocean shore for fertilizer.

We have a bank payment and no extra money for anything.All we had was hand-me-downs from clothes, to furniture and old farmers castoffs like forks, shovels and broken hay mowers and cultivators. Our $5,000 a year income went for bank payment on the farm, electricity and needs of our children.We scavanged wood from the seashore and cut on shares with people who had woodlots to keep us warm through the winter.

Looking back we even wonder how we survived the hard work as we were 39 and 40 years old when we started.

In your situation I would make a raised bed about 4ft wide and as long as you wish to grow food in the Spring. A lot can be grown in small spaces like 4x4 or 4x 20 ft.Then in the fall break up ground with bales of old hay.

Our ground is sloping so we put planks on the downward side only and leave 3 ft. between beds if having more than one bed. We use old hay or eel grass between beds to walk on and keep it from being muddy. Eel grass grows by the sea so you would need hay or straw or shavings from a mill as long as it is free.

Our planking was free also. They were discarded railway ties and other lumber that washed up from the ocean with high tides. With no ocean to help I would seek out anyone who was tearing down an old building that might have old lumber . Maybe you could tear down something in exchange for the usable lumber. You might get enough for garden beds as well as a hen coop.

I also pick wild blue berries ; black and red raspberries , currants and wild greens. There is a green here that grows on the rocky shore that we make salads with. We pick wild mushrooms; but be sure you know which are good to eat. Ours have skins which peel off and the ones that don't peel we don't eat. We also found old apple trees and pruned the part that overhung our fence. We asked permission to pick apples from abandoned trees on other folks land also.

Rabbits make stew if you eat meat and a few chickens would give you eggs. Other animals need more care and shelter. A goat possibly but they only give milk when bred and then you end up with several goats and expense you can not afford right now.

Living in a truck is rough. A tent may work better unless there is horrible rain storms. Our niece and husband put a tent on a wooden platform and lived in it while they built their house one summer. An old discarded camper could be fixed up as long as it is free.

Free pallets can be used for many things. You could build fences, a table and seat to sit on or a platform for a tent to rest on.. Washed out tin cans can be got for free from people as well as plastic containers. Tin cans for cups and palstic containers to hold soup. Pick up a few forks, knives and spoons and a pot and fry pan to cook in off free cycle or ask Dad to donate those. All can be had for free.We had an aunt who was a missionary in Haiti years ago and every tin can or cardboard box was used for something. Years later she couldn't bear to throw things away. We have the same problem after living scrimping for many years.

These are some ideas most of which we have used at some time in our life. I think I will start writing some articles on my blog soon on how to start with nothing and survive frugally.You can find it at http://lindarose-afrugalabundantlife.blogspot.com. Don't think you reached the wrong blog since I have an article about religion on the front page right now that my husband wrote. Look in the side bar for other information about farming and gardening.

We are still frugal but after 33 years together we are doing much better. The worse is over for us. Farming, homesteading, gardening are accumalative which each succeeding year. The ground improves but if you move you will always be starting over. A rolling stone gathers no moss the saying goes. In your case your immediate needs are priority number one before you find a permanent place to settle. Good luck!

geo in mi · #16 02/19/12, 03:41 PM

Hopefully, you have gotten your information directly from the Tennessee DHS regarding food stamp elgibility and getting a modification order on your child support. Unless you have something to hide, the DHS should have been your best source during these three years you have been unemployed--in fact, you could have been eligible for unemployment compensation in this period, as well. The way it sounds your former employer did you no favors if it didn't offer post employment counselling, job interview training, and the address of the local unemployment office . Of course, all support thru a DHS office requires you disclose your pay stubs, your yearly tax records, and they require you to sign up for work availabiliy....

So, if you haven't done that, here's the DHS website for Child Support, etc. You can access all the other services thru the tabs on the left of the page http://www.tn.gov/humanserv/cs/cs_forms.html

Lucky you still have your computer--it doesn't look like you would need a lawyer, as all the forms, rules, and work sheets are online.......

Actually, unless you really have a lot of seeds, three to five acres is way more than you would need for a basic garden--so your rototiler should do you for now without plowing up all that space.. I would go to the grocery store and buy some potatoes--that are beginning to sprout--and just use them to plant this year. Also I would get a few pkts of green beans, some kale, lettuce, and some soup beans. In fact, you can plant grocery store beans and get a crop to store. Don't count on your garden to supply you with all your food, but having some would take a part of the load off.

As summer gets closer, your shelter shouldn't be the same cold hassle as in the wintertime. I would invest in a couple of tarps--teepee style, etc, but behind shrubs or fences so as not to get complaints. You need the ability to get around--so you need to keep your car in shape--and one expense is gas money, of course. As for water, I think I would go the store route and simply buy drinking water--or find a friendly neighbor/church--somewhere that has an outside water spigot to fill up some gallon plastic bottles.

You might find a few basic tools you can borrow from your father--hoes, rakes, shovels, etc. With a smaller area, you should do fine in getting it ready, and keeping the weeds under control. With the others, it looks like siphoning would do the watering job to keep things alive and growing.

Shave and bathe every day........and keep your clothes clean and tidy. That way you won't be stopped for vagrancy. Try to always look like you are going somewhere for a purpose.

Best of luck, and I hope this helps,

geo

Blackbear · #17 02/19/12, 04:24 PM

Wow brother I feel for you, I would go around and ask some farmers if they will trade service for service, turn and disc for a service you can provide them, if you are handy.In these hard times someone may need some work done they can not afford.It is worth a shot.5 + acres maybe be alot so you may have to work a deal. Small game and deer will be good protein if your state law allows.Fish fish fish. turtles are good eating as well as frogs. Get scrap wood and making a chicken coop and rabbit hutch. Gotta get creative in the hard times. If I hit lotto I will send you a fat check to get you started.

honeyrobber · #18 02/19/12, 04:31 PM

Been farming all my life in some shape or form. It was either side income or just for family. I got another 10 year of child support. I need acrage to increase income. Last year dad's farm made more money than is had in years due to a good blackberry crop. But now there is not enough room for the staple crops(tomatoes, squash, pumpkins). I am getting ready to make a tunnel house for lettuce this week when it gets drier. My plastic has been used many years and has a few holes but will get started on my season real soon. I pretty much have lived out of my truck the last 3 years. I have had enough the past winters to actually rent something for 3-4 monthsbut not this year. In the growing season I am gone most of the time to a market or busy on the farm and just have no need of a home. I get to the markets the night before and sleep in the truck 3 out of 7 nights a week all season. I just have to change my life style. McDonalds $1 menu and other such places are where I eat most of the time when doing markets as I am on the road to much. I eat alot of raw veggies(cukes, zepher squash, salad mixes). I am thinking about selling some of my tools to get the cash to get the farm turned and disced but then I would have to rebuy them at a later time. My tile saw is something that is hard to find used worth anything and would be kept but my nail gun and a few other things are should be easy to find used for atleast near what I would get out of them. Just worry I would not have the money to replace them later. Just got to rack my brain and yours for ideas. $300 extra cash right now would change my outlook for the year. BTW we used to raise quail and I have a sportsman incubator. I can get eggs from my uncle(white leghorn) which I can incubate at my dads place. I am trying to find everything I can use for free or near free. I have about 50 pallets but I hate to use them for building as I run out during the season alot of times. Watermelon season is when I use most of the pallets. I still got to buy the $10 box that goes on them(got a few left overs). I try to get used ones at the produce auction for less. Like I said I need acreage not raised beds. I already grow more than enough to feed me on veggies.

honeyrobber · #19 02/19/12, 04:48 PM

I am already farming 13 acres at my dad's. So I know whats up. The massy 135 is no more or I would haul it and use it(dad sold it for scrap). A mower is what we use between the berries. Got a large old cub cadet that has seen better days we use between them. Just not enough income to replace it.

DHS is nothing but trouble. And beleave me they are no hope in reducing child support as they helped my ex get it raised. I have not had any luck with probono lawyers either believe me I want relieve.

Tirzah · #20 02/19/12, 06:31 PM

honeyrobber,

I'm sorry to hear of your situation and am praying for the Lord to give you wisdom and to provide for your needs.

Check out this link: http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/...09/12/0617.xml

I don't know if you would qualify for a grant for this but it may be worth looking into.

Place ads on Craigslist or Freecycle for whatever supplies or materials you may need. You never know unless you try. Put the word out, people will remember when they come across that item/s.

Could you barter someone tilling the land in exchange for harvested produce? That might be worth looking into.

I wish I could offer you more advice. Best of luck!