Resources on turning cut-over woodlot into pasture?

[Mulegirl]

Anyone have any suggestions on this? We're in the process of buying (offer has been accepted, inspections and full location survey are being done) 15 acres, most of which is cut-over woodlot. The development company that renovated the house cleared about an acre around the house almost completely, but the rest of the property was logged a few years ago and has small scrubby pines, maples, oaks, sassafras, and LOTS of bleeding blackberries growing around slash piles of stuff too small to haul off. Once we're over there, DH is going to get a chainsaw and chipper and start turning the slash piles into wood chips and firewood, but our ultimate goal is to get all this turned into pasture or orchard. Do any of you know of books or anything that might help us figure out the most effective ways to do that? We do know it's going to take a while; we're not in any real hurry, as we have some more arable family land a county over that we're going to be using as well.

[jwal10]

Turn some goats out there to clean it up. You would need fence. If there are large stumps you will need some horsepower. After the goats, seed some grasses for cattle or sheep pasture. A good sized trackhoe is easiest to pop the stumps if you decide to clear it for hay field....James

[CesumPec]

Joel Salatin's rule is put up fence, put out animals. He advocates planting grasses only on rare occasion. There are natural grasses adapted for your area's soil, sun, and rain conditions, just waiting for a space of clear ground and sunshine to grow. Goats and cattle will fertilize and get the nutrient cycle working as well as keep the area mowed. But you will still have to mow some to encourage grasses and legumes to become the dominant plants.

Leave some of the regenerating trees for cover, shade, and wildlife, but cut down enough of them to make sure sun is getting to the ground over most of the pasture. Some people will tell you to burn the slash; I prefer to chip it to make mulch, bedding, and compost. You'll get a better long term benefit than from burning.

I started converting a longleaf pine plantation to silvipasture and an orchard last year. The parts I opened up in June had decent grass that needed to be mowed by fall. I don't have animals because I'm not living on the property yet. However, there are an abundance of deer, wild pig, and turkeys enjoying the new grasses and undergrowth.

[Mulegirl]

Thanks for the responses so far! You're both confirming what we were thinking of doing--putting up "goat-proof" fence (hahaha, as if anything is, I know), and turning meat goats loose on it once DH had gone through with the chainsaw and chipper. CesumPec, do you know if any of Salatin's books focus on this process much? I know that he rehabbed PolyFace using livestock, and as long as that technique works on cutover woodlot, his methods should work here, since we're about 4 hours northeast of where he is.

[Marcia in MT]

Originally Posted by Mulegirl

do you know if any of Salatin's books focus on this process much? I know that he rehabbed PolyFace using livestock, and as long as that technique works on cutover woodlot, his methods should work here, since we're about 4 hours northeast of where he is.

I've read about his method in his "You Can Farm" and "Folks, This Ain't Normal." There were bits but no whole chapters. No woodlots to rehab around here, but it was interesting reading and even the bits were educational.

[haypoint]

First you need to find out if it could be pasture if the woody plants were gone. Hate to clear the woods only to discover a soil type not suited to pasture. Is it well drained? Is it so sandy that nutrents quickly disappear. Is it solid clay?
When you chip some woody plants, you get a lot of seeds in there, too. Would need to compost and turn many times to get rid of weed seeds.

Goats will eat a lot of woody plants and new tree growth. What they do not eat you can spray Round up on or drag a propane tank out there and use a torch to burn/kill the plants.

Then you will either have to wait for the stumps and roots to rot or figure out how to pull the hundreds of stumps.

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by Mulegirl

Thanks for the responses so far! You're both confirming what we were thinking of doing--putting up "goat-proof" fence (hahaha, as if anything is, I know), and turning meat goats loose on it once DH had gone through with the chainsaw and chipper. CesumPec, do you know if any of Salatin's books focus on this process much? I know that he rehabbed PolyFace using livestock, and as long as that technique works on cutover woodlot, his methods should work here, since we're about 4 hours northeast of where he is.

what Marcia said in re Salatin.

I have a home in the northern most part of VA, at least as long as it takes to finish my Florida hut. And I drove 2 hours to visit Salatin's farm last July. So I think you are closer than 4 hours north east of him unless you want to change your location to Maryland.

[Mulegirl]

Originally Posted by CesumPec

what Marcia said in re Salatin.

I have a home in the northern most part of VA, at least as long as it takes to finish my Florida hut. And I drove 2 hours to visit Salatin's farm last July. So I think you are closer than 4 hours north east of him unless you want to change your location to Maryland.

You're right--I was trying to overestimate since my husband always gets annoyed if I underestimate! I'd never bothered to map Swoope . . . it's actually almost straight west of where we're buying, and southwest (and closer) to where we are now. Silly me, not actually looking into it. We can't afford to buy from Salatin, so we hadn't yet bothered to go out there!

Salatin is in a better area than we are in terms of farmland. The piece we're going to be working with is just west of the location of Civil War battle know as the Wilderness, and the area gained that name pretty early on because of how quickly tobacco farming stripped out the soil, forcing farmers and plantation owners to leave and allow the forest to reclaim the land. Nowadays, however, there is a decent amount of cattle farming all around us--any area not forested is pasture that looks nice at least from the road. So far, soil on the site seems to be decent in some spots (the well record records "red clay" as the dominant soil for 12 feet, which in this area means slightly lighter, loamier red clay than in other places), and rocky/sandy under forest duff in others, such as the main cut-over area. I'm not yet sure, though, how much of that is because the folks who cut it put in gravel roads to do so; DH only scuffed a couple of inches down in two spots when we were out there last week. There is some clear growth of the main native pasture-grass, broomsedge, coming up in the entire cut-over area, though, which gives me hope.

[Hexe]

I think the advice on fencing and turning appr. animal power loose is right on. Pasture is going to require secure fencing anyway, so you have nothing to loose and everything to gain by fencing now and making "them" work for you.
Goats certainly seem to be the most suitable for this, but don't forget about cattle and pigs. Cattle are a lot thriftier than people give them credit for and pigs will de-stump and clear even large lots.

Here's some thought on placement of fencing: It will be tempting to put the fence on the property line for a) getting your lands worth of grazing and b) maintaining your known, legal property line.
However, keep in mind that you want to physically maintain your fenceline and that's done easiest if there is a strip to drive a four-wheeler, tractor, etc. around your fence to mow, weed-eat and trim brush of your fence/electric wire (ask me how I know...) . In that case you would want to keep clear lines of sight between your LEGAL MARKERS (which would probably parallell your pasture fencing) so there can be no dispute later on, for example if the surrounding/adjacent property get's sold next week, next year or the next century (I know a century propably wouldn't affect you, but what about your kids?)


Good luck.

[texican]

Only way to do it easily is with a dozer....

Leaving a clearcut up to animals to clean up? right... sure it could be done... if you want to deal with a stump field, and all the resprouting hardwoods coming back each year, threatening calves with oak leaf poisoning.

My father and grandpa cleaned up most of 500 acres back before WWII, by axe (chainsaws cost big money back then, and who could afford fuel). They only cleaned off a few of the flat pastures completely clean of stumps, so they could grow crops. Later, they 'cleaned' some of the stump fields into hay meadows. About half of it, they never cleaned up, but kept the stumps cut close to the ground. Few years later, they noticed the hardwoods were all sprouting and growing... and thus began the yearly bushhogging.... to keep the 'pasture' from reverting to 'forest'. When I got my land, I let about 40 acres of those 'sprouts' live... now there's sawlogs there.

Don't deal with your stumps, and you'll have forest wanting to come back, each year.

I've heard of Mr. Salatin... I do wonder if he has any stump fields on his media marketing farm... you know, they're not really pretty.... goats love em though...

[CesumPec]

Originally Posted by texican

I've heard of Mr. Salatin... I do wonder if he has any stump fields on his media marketing farm... you know, they're not really pretty.... goats love em though...

Salatin has about 500 acres, 100+ of which are basically cleared and have lush grass. He does some logging, has a portable saw mill. He sells firewood and I think he sells some rough cut lumber. Where he logs, he puts out pigs for a few weeks to feed on the underbrush and stir up the soil to encourage new growth.

[Mulegirl]

Thanks, Texican--that's some good information to keep in mind. Happily, we're planning on using the animals mostly for the pooping they do, rather than for the real clearing action, though we're hoping goats will do a number on the blackberries and greenbriar that tend to pop up in any open space around here. Whatever major stump clearing is left will probably be done mechanically somehow since yes, these things are prone to re-sprouting! You've also made clear that I will absolutely have to make sure to read up on cattle more before we put any out there (I was raised with equines rather than bovines). . . I did not know they could poison themselves on oak leaves. Wilted cherry I was aware of, but not oak.

[lakeportfarms]

We have an old apple orchard that was abandoned for 20 years before we purchased it. I started trying to mow and clear it with the tractor but gave up after 30 hours and you couldn't even see any progress. We decided to try goats and cattle. Once we got it fenced (which was a major job) We turned out goats and Scottish Highlands. Today, what was formerly brush, multi-flora rose, blackberry, and other junk looks like a golf course with the biggest 4 leaf clovers you have ever seen. All our old apple trees are neatly trimmed at 6' high, (though we have to trim the majority of them). I did get out with the tractor and pallet forks on the front end loader to work on ripping out the multi flora vines, but the goats and cattle at least made it possible to get to it. People said our Highlands had the most beautiful hair. That's because it was constantly brushed by the thorns and vines in the trees as they barged through them.