getting started - without getting in too far over my head?

[LittleWacke]

I am finally in a position to make some real changes in my life. I now have a job that allows me to work from home - I can work anywhere with telephone lines and DSL. Of course, this gives me all kinds of options - it'll be a huge change, though, and I'm afraid of getting in over my head.

I was raised on dirt roads, but I'm *not* a homesteader. I've had gardens that have, some seasons, kept me from having to buy any vegetables from the market (and from wanting to eat any zucchini for a year, hehe) but I've never raised livestock of any sort. I have these big ideas in my head, but there's no way I could even try to get them in motion all at once, with no experience.

For less than the rent we pay here, we can rent a small home with an acre or two in north Florida, where my boyfriend will be returning to school. I want to use the next few years to learn and hone the skills I'll need to make it a reality.

So, down to the actual question: where do I start? I'm thinking I could handle a large garden (though larger than I've ever had) with a small flock of chickens and a pair of goats giving me produce, eggs, some small amount of meat, and dairy. Is that still going to be too much for a city girl? I wouldn't be starting with any machinery but a small tiller, so everything would be very labor intensive.

I have a long list of things I want to have eventually - vegetables, grains, berries, fruit trees, mushrooms, cattle, goats, chickens, ducks, rabbits, a well stocked pond, and likely a hundred things I haven't even considered, all with the aim of some measure of self sufficiency. What, of these, are feasible to start to learn with so little experience and land? I love this site, and am grateful for your help.

[goatlady]

Start SMALL in order to be able to refine your skills and NOT get discouraged. It will take more time than you figure to handle a smaller garden productively, especially in a new area with new soil to get in shape. As to animals, start with some laying hens, 6-8, and get skilled keeping them laying and healthy. As your skills increase and you have a handle on time management, then you consider expanding the garden and "possibly" getting a few goats. The biggest downfall for most potential homesteaders is trying to do too much all at once. The move itself and having a new job will be stressfull in themselves, so don't add to it by worrying about lots of animals, garden area, and your learning curve. Slow and steady gets everything done properly and lessens disasters. Don't forget learning how to put up/preserve yoou production from the garden for good winter meals. And all the equipment needed to do those things efficiently. REad books, ask questions, and make lists!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Getting your place ready to house those chickens and goats will take a couple of months if you do the work yourself in the time outside your day job. Fencing that will actually keep the critters in, chicken house, goat shed/milk house, milking stand.... it's more work than you know. BUT... do it before buying animals, even though you might be tempted to get them first and build later.

A half dozen chickens and two dairy goats is a good start. Best of the farm world, if you ask me.

Starting a small garden can come in spare moments.

Do you have Carla Emery's book?
http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-C.../dp/1570615535

[geo in mi]

The biggest thing you'll have to do is get permission from the landlord to make a garden and do any building or fencing. You'll have to make some provision for the extra water you will be using, and restoration of the property to the landlord's satisfaction if/when you leave.

You will also need to discover if you can kill the animals you have raised. Some people find out they can't. You will need to know if raising animals in your area is prohibited or limited by local laws or ordinances. You will also need to know of outlets for the animals that result from breeding for milking(this may stretch the obvious, but you can't have milk without having baby animals coming along once a year). And you should find out if you like drinking goat milk before you start--I am one of the rare ones who doesn't--cow's milk for me, please.....

You should get a soil test beforehand. See if your gardening efforts will produce anything. Talk to the local county extension agent for advice on planting season, local conditions, etc...

Good luck, and welcome to the forum,

geo

[the mama]

Where at in North Florida? That's where I'm at and also a couple more on this board.

[FrogTacos]

I dove right in deep with both feet and haven't looked back. We moved into our house last November. By March I had bought 5 pygmy goats, a tiller, and a bunch of seeds. One year later, I have 12 goats (11 Boer, one LaMancha) and am buying more seeds.

One recommendation I will make to you - if/when you are at a stage of breeding your animals, take your labor intensive garden into consideration. I don't want to have to turn my back on my pressure canner to assist a goat in the throws of a difficult labor.


(COMMENTS BELOW ARE BASED SOLELY ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE AND WILL VARY FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL)
Another consideration is feeding your livestock. With goats, you will spend far more for feed and medication than what you will get out of meat for one or two babies per year. During the 'lush' months, (which you would probably have more of in Florida than I do in Arkansas) they can do a lot of grazing, but with a small parcel of land you will have to supplement - feed and hay. My general feed costs (averaged out over the year, including medications) are $1 per goat, per day. 2 goats you are looking at the potential of over $700 a year to feed and keep healthy - that isn't counting any emergency vet trips you might have to make. Of course, this will vary greatly for each individual goat owner and how they handle their stock. -In other words, it would be way cheaper to buy a meat goat from someone else that is ready for slaughter vs raising your own for the same purpose. (You can generally find them for $75 to $150 each)

[Hollowdweller]

I've had goats for 23 years but I'd highly reccomend starting with chickens or something first.

Also your garden is probably the best and most cost effective thing you can do.

[OkieDavid]

I second starting with a garden and a few chickens PROVIDED you have landowner permissions. I started with chickens and two goats. Those two goats ALMOST discouraged me to the point of wanting to give it all up. Built them a nice shelter and within a week they had torn it to shreds and ruined the metal. I learned that ANY fence you can see through, a goat can get through. Anything you can build, a goat can destroy. They were just babies and doing what goats do. The learning curve was pretty steep for someone who had never dealt with goats before. Once I "cut their wheels off", things settled down nicely but until then I was really discouraged. I will NEVER keep the horns on another goat LOL.

[pheasantplucker]

I agree...start small. Take on fewer skills and try to "master" those before moving on and becoming overwhelmed and not doing any well. A small garden will be much more work than you may expect, but on the other hand, a small garden will yield more produce than you might anticipate, as well. Rabbits and chickens are a good suggestion. I started bees about three years ago, and I enjoy working with them. Easy...but join a local bee club so you can share in an extractor...compare notes, etc. Practice conservation in everything you do. Build rain barrels, start a compost heap, go to flea markets to get stuff you need, rather than go buying new. Barter when possible. Read a lot of back issues of magazines that deal with back to the land movement. Good luck.

[LittleWacke]

You guys are awesome. I will be to the SW of Jacksonville. I've lived in Volusia (and Alachua for college) my whole life, and know it takes a lot of inputs to get the sandy soil we have here worked into something fertile. Like I said, I've done that pretty successfully - enough to feed two people in spring and fall (everyone else calls those temps summer) if we didn't mind a *lot* of repetition - but the local extension agents were lifesavers on occasion. The scale worries me, but not half as much as the livestock. Canning will be an almost new experience for me, as well.

Given what I've read here, I will likely not try to get goats immediately, mostly because the fencing will be a little more expensive than I think I can swing initially. As for the taste, I like cows milk more, but I like goat cheese as well as I like cheese made from cow milk. that could be because I've made cheese from raw goat milk, but always used store bought cows milk for cheese making. I'd *love* to have a dairy cow instead, but a little of my reasoning for wanting goats is lawn maintenance.

Slaughter isn't something I've done myself, but I've helped my grandparents with chickens before - I was chief feather plucker when I was very young, hehe. My BF hunts, so I'm hopeful he'll be able to handle it if I can't.

I had not considered the water issues (argh) and may have to be choosier in where we decide to live because of that. Several of the homes we're looking at are on wells, and I've never been on anything but city water. I am looking forward to having rain barrels again - my mother has always had chains and barrels - and I've never lived far enough from neighbors to dare to try a compost heap. So many new things for me to learn in the coming years...

I am a reader, both online and in books. I have stacks of old photocopies and designs (I went through a hydroponic stage for awhile) and have found myself going through them like crazy lately. I found my old records for my gardens - I analyze things to an annoying degree - and am looking at what worked about 100 miles south of where we'll be.

Oh, as for bees, I left those off the list, though it's something I really want to do someday. I'd also like to barrel right into mushrooms, as one of my friends swears that after initial costs, they're almost easy. Bees scare me all to bits, though, so I think they're later on my list.

thanks again, any and all advice is appreciated.



***so I was looking at that little avatar thinking, "what are those? they look like underwear" - then I moused over, and darned if they weren't flame proof underwear, hehe

[emdeengee]

Whenever I read of people making big changes - new job, moving, one partner no longer contributing as much to the family income - I pray that they will make or have made a proper budget before committing. Only when you know all your expenses, income and liabilities can you really determine what you can afford to do.

One other thing about working at home. I have run my business from home since 1995 and the hardest thing to get used to in the beginning was really committing the proper time to the job. You need to set a proper schedule of your time including office hours. It is so tempting to put your job aside when the sun is shining and the garden and animals are calling. I could always find an excuse to go outside "just for a minute" that stretched into a couple of hours.

My experience of living on this 5 acres since last spring has shown that you have to start slowly.

I started the orchard 4 years ago when this was my hunting shack. This spring I put in a few more fruit trees. You should put the orchard in first if you are able to have the place long term. It takes a while to produce. I am getting cherries and a few apples and plums. Nothing from the pears yet. Next spring I will have some chicken manuer to put on the trees so maybe they will do better.

I had to build a fenced area for a garden. I buried the fence a foot deep to stop tunneling critters. Unfortunantly, between fencing the garden and building a chicken coop, the garden got put in late and the first frost was early so I didn't get much produce.

I decided my first critters should be chickens. The first thing I did was to build a chicken coop. This was delayed by a rainy spring so the chickens came before the coop was done. They spent the first two weeks in the spare bedroom. LOL You don't want them in the house because they smell and they make a lot of dust. Have the coop done before you order chickens. I have been composting the chicken poop and the wood fire ashes so next spring I will have a good supply for the garden and the orchard.

Up here I had to acquire and cut enough firewood to last the winter. The heat the wood stove throws off feels really good right now. It warmes you right down to your bones.

Next spring I am going to till up another garden without fencing and put root veges in there. I think I will try some bees. I may try raising a pig. If I had more land I might try a steer. Building a root cellar is on the agenda. I hope to develope the skills to feed myself. I expect to add a few things every year until I am self sufficient in food.

If you don't try to do too much at once you will be just fine. Good luck and Merry Christmas.

[chewie]

goats were harder to learn than chickens. so, go with some hens first, or get a straight run from a farm store and butcher your roos. this way, you can get maybe a dozen and see how livestock works for you.

i've had horses and cattle for most my life and goats took some learning and I'm still not what i'd consider experienced. i've just past the not-so-dumb stage after 7 years.

one year not long ago I killed 3 out of 4 of my does. that was horrible, and just out of lack of knowledge. i thought after raising horses and cattle I wouldn't have to learn goats, haha, boy was I wrong!!! epic fail!

[goatlady]

LOL! If you want "lawn maintenance" get sheep NOT goats! Grass is the last on the list of goat preferred food, gal. They are browsers like deer, they prefer bushes, weeds, flowers, trees! If you turn a goat onto your lawn you will have no flowers, hedges, etc. left in a week or less! Sheep are strictly grass eaters and sheep do not have to be milked once or twice a day as lactating goats do. Being tied to a milking schedule flat out ties you to home - no weekends away with BF, no vacations hardly cause it's impossible to find reliable helpers to even feed and water homestead animals these days. Focus on your gardening and preserving skills and chickens for a few years and you will then have a clear understanding of where you want to be thereafter. I would not suggest planting fruit trees or fruits bushes on rental property - costs $$ and then you have to leave them when you move and it takes several years for them to start producing anyway.

[Ann-NWIowa]

When building housing and fencing, remember you need to both keep your animals in and predators out.

I would not get goats until everything else you plan is in place. They are fun but they are not easy.

The winter before I planted my first garden I read and re-read over and over my 'how to can' booklet so that when I went to do canning I had it pretty well fixed in my mind. I also started collecting canning jars everywhere I could find them. I'm still using some jars my grandmothers gave me when they quit canning 50 years ago.

I've also been able thru the years to buy most of the equipment including canners and large stock pots for very little at auctions and garage sales. Study up on what you want so you will know it when you see it and snatch it up. My two canners cost $5 and $10, stock pots $1 and I once filled a stationwagon with boxes of canning jars for $1. If you have friends or family that used to can, ask for their stuff. Also, if you know someone who goes to a lot of auctions and garage stales, give them a shopping list.

[CountryWannabe]

I am with those that say "start small". You have gardening experience, so as long as your landlord is fine with it, I would get a good sized garden going (though do not overdo even this - a moderate garden that is producing well is a lot better than a huge garden that you didn't have the time to tend). I tend to go overboard with what I plant, but I have animals to feed excess to. I also can and freeze a lot of stuff. Plant what you enjoy eating. A bumper crop of beets is lovely if you like them or can sell them, and a waste of time if you are going to let most of them go to waste.

I would also echo the chicken thing. They are really the easiest of livestock to care for. Some breeds are friendlier than others, I find Marans and Orpingtons to be nice, calm birds. I have always found the Leghorns to be very flighty, so decide if temperament matters to you.

I found goats very, very hard to get a handle on. I think I made more mistakes with them than with any other animal. I would still consider myself "just getting by" after several years of them.

I find sheep very easy to raise - they live on pasture very well, with very little supplementary feeding - as long as you have sufficient pasture, of course. I agree with goatlady - if you want a lawnmower service, then get sheep not goats.

Mary

[speedfunk]

most important...


do it

[LittleWacke]

Originally Posted by speedfunk

most important...


do it

I have more to respond to others - come morning light - but I had to respond because A) you are right, the biggest obstacle will always be me, I have to make the changes for dreams to become reality and B) I suspect from your domain name that we share a favorite childhood book - the same book was tattered and torn and much loved on my bookshelf.

[Raven12]

Originally Posted by LittleWacke

I was raised on dirt roads, but I'm *not* a homesteader.

I am in the same position. Grew up in the boonies then moved to the big city when I was 17. I'm taking baby steps. There is so much to learn that it can be overwhelming at times.

[misterB]

I agree 100% with speedfunk, do it, somethings can only be learned from experience, its not in a book, and until you start you're not doing it.