question re: purchasing/requesting an easement

CountryGoalie · #1 12/14/11, 02:04 PM

Okay. Dh and I are looking at an 18-acre parcel at the edge of the local village - and it has a creek that runs through it. A sizable creek. That floods in the spring. The topography is such that building on the front or back of the property wouldn't be an issue - my dad says it's called a glacial morrain? Anyway. It's really low floodplain in the middle and high, well-draining sandy-ish hills on front and back.

Along the one side of the property is an old raised railway bed - it is now "road". County owns most of it, used to be a snowmobile trail, county didn't want to pay insurance, etc. The parcel next to us, though, was purchased by a fellow who wanted access to a sand pit off of it, so that portion is not county land. It's his. It' not an active pit. The guy lives in like... NC now.

Here's the thing. To get to the back of the property, we either need to:
A) build a bridge over the creek (but even then we will be limited during "wet season" due to floodplain),
B) purchase a one-acre lot that abuts the backside of the property via a subdivision, and that one acre is $10k, whereas the 18-acre we are looking at is only $22.9k, and doing this would take it out of our range.
C) acquire a right-of-way/easement along his road to access the backside of our property.

How simple is it to request an easement on private property? Is there usually a high cost, or is it mainly just the legal fees to get it done? Have any of you done this?

The property is otherwise something I am in love with... buildable in parts... scrubby graze in parts... a creek... walking distance to p.o., library, bank, etc...

So I a thinking if we could get an easementq. It would be worth it... but wasn't sure how complicated that is.

bruce2288 · #2 12/14/11, 02:30 PM

Not complicated at all if the owner is agreeable. A simple easement agreement is drawn up, I used a lawyer, a consideration is recieved(I got one dollar), any restrictions are noted and it was filed at the courthouse.

cfabe · #3 12/14/11, 02:51 PM

Are the lots in the subdivision at the minimum allowed size? You don't need an acre to run a driveway, could you buy one, split off 50 or 66ft from one side, then resell the remainder?

Could you get an easement over one of the subdivision lots for a driveway?

Could owning the subdivision property be advantageous in another way? Would it get you better access to services like snow plowing, trash pickup etc? Are water/power/cable/internet utilities closer or more available on that parcel than on the creek parcel and it's road frontage?

You could conisider building on the front of the creek property. Maybe being close to the subdivision would have negative impacts as well? Noise/neighbors/etc.

Just some thoughts...

Alice In TX/MO · #4 12/14/11, 02:55 PM

Don't buy a piece of property with that many problems.

wwubben · #5 12/14/11, 03:01 PM

The landowner has to be willing to give you an easement.Get it on paper before you write any checks.You need an attorney for this.

TnAndy · #6 12/14/11, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwubben

The landowner has to be willing to give you an easement.

And "willing" is the key word there. Personally, I wouldn't give one unless it was WELL worth my while. Lowers the value of my property, and lessens my control.

Alice is giving you good advice. Look elsewhere for property.

pancho · #7 12/14/11, 04:07 PM

Another vote for looking for some other property.
Easements will usually end up in trouble if either party gets mad at the other.

Darren · #8 12/14/11, 05:22 PM

I'd check the flood plain maps first to get an idea of how much of the parcel is useless for building. Around here it's not unusual to see a 500 year flood. The current flood of record was calculated to be a 2250 year flood.

In short, flood plain maps are developed with statistics. I wouldn't want to trust the math behind the maps if it was my money. Almost every year you read about people getting flooded on property that never flooded before.

bruce2288 · #9 12/14/11, 05:59 PM

Countrygoalie, Contrary to much of the advice given here not everyone is a horses-butt some people are accomdating neighbors. Contact the owner, you basically want an easement on his existing road right, not much of a hardship to him. Offer to do the road maintainence, but again get in drawn up legal and file the document at the courthouse.

**highlands** · #10 12/14/11, 06:09 PM

Just ask. I have sold property putting easements on them as I did so and then later sold easements when asked. Price is right and it will sell. It's a thing of value. Make an offer.

agmantoo · #11 12/14/11, 09:36 PM

Regarding the lot in the subdivision. $10000 is cheap for a lot IMO. Possibly the neighbors on each side of the lot may want more yard. Approach them and see if they are interested in buying a portion of the lot. If so, then get the lot and sell the neighbors a portion. I think this will be the cheapest route. If you do this get a legally prepared option on both parcels before making the proposal.

Acer Rubrum · #12 12/14/11, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Regarding the lot in the subdivision. $10000 is cheap for a lot IMO. Possibly the neighbors on each side of the lot may want more yard. Approach them and see if they are interested in buying a portion of the lot. If so, then get the lot and sell the neighbors a portion. I think this will be the cheapest route. If you do this get a legally prepared option on both parcels before making the proposal.

This is what I would try first- it's a win/win for you and the subdivision neighbor.

Neighbor gets an extra half-lot (full of peace and quiet) for $5000... and you get a driveway plus a half-lot for $5000.

(You might even get to sell your half-lot later, if zoning allows. And the future buyer would purchase it with your easement written in.)

rambler · #13 12/15/11, 01:36 AM

Some good ideas in here so far.

An 'easement' is an access given to get to a property with no other public access to it....

You have access through your own property, so you really don't need a full 'easement' maybe?

Clearly you will build where you have access to the public road on your own, not depend upon an easement - so you will build on the front part, not the back part. If you are buying a property split by water, and you plan to build on the back side and need to use someone else's property for a driveway - then I'm with the others who say look for something else - that would just be silly!

But if you just want access to your back property now & then, to get firewood hauled out, or during times of flooding to get to a pasture or whatever, perhaps you could come to a simpler agreement - you grade the road once or twice a year in exchange for using it without messing it up for the other fella. Something a little simpler than a full blown easement. Would want your arrangement in writing, but for occational access might not have ot get so technical. After all, you have access most of the time from your own property, which is how it should be.

You won't know until you ask. If it were me, I'd be suspicious as to why you need a full blown easement when you own the property with an access point already, I'd not want to encumber my property that close to a hot development area with an easement that decreases my lands value. On trhe other hand, as long as the road remains there, go ahead and use it toget to your back 5 acres now & then, no problem.

--->Paul

DryHeat · #14 12/15/11, 08:52 AM

You don't mention the present status of the sand pit. Has it been depleted for commercial usefulness so the present owner would figure he no longer even needs the access for himself? Is it possible that absent landowner would sell you a couple acres outright or is there far too much acreage involved, too expensive, or no interest in selling? Since he's used the access for commercial purposes himself, he might be a bit concerned that your access would involve heavy traffic, or might eventually if limitations weren't spelled out. I don't think the easement itself is especially expensive or difficult, but of course both parties really should have an attorney to be safe. No harm *asking* I suppose, perhaps the property owner would actually agree to something not at all in his own best interests for a modest payment.

Another route might be to buy the development lot, attach the easement to it with your terms, then put the entire acre back for sale at a discount, perhaps $8000, in effect paying $2000 plus other fees for the easement. Sounds like the budgeting, delay, and risk doing that would make it not possible even if the development terms allowed such a manipulation, just throwing the idea out there.

mary,tx · #15 12/15/11, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Don't buy a piece of property with that many problems.

This would be my advice. Certainly if you expect the owner of the neighboring property to accomadate you in any way, find out FIRST whether he would. We had someone try to buy the house on five acres next to us once with the assumption that we would sell him a few acres behind it. Even if he hadn't tried to insult us into a deal, we never would have been willing to do it. We have other plans for that property.

My guess would be that if the adjacent owner wants to sell, he'd want to sell the whole piece and not an easement that will compromise future use of his place.

fols · #16 12/15/11, 10:52 AM

We had a very similar situation (creek that splits property) when we bought ours except the parcel we needed the easement on was owned by the person we bought our land from. She had that other section up for sale also. From what we ran into, here is my advice:
Pay some consideration (even if it is 1 dollar) to the other owner. Without this, the easement 'contract' would be considered legally invalid. Our lady tried to unwrap the easement when someone wanted to buy property#2 but did not want the easement already created. Our lawyer said we technically paid nothing for the easement, although we did buy property #1 understanding that the easement was a part of the purchase. She ended up dropping the case and selling to someone else, or else this could have gotten messier.

Draw the easement up with a lawyer. Don't write in there that you will split maintenance cost of the easement road if you plan to just use infrequently.

File the signed, notorized easement with your county recorder the second you get it back from the other owner.

Ours eventually turned out ok. Our creek has continued to erode and get deeper, so we definitely needed the easement!

Shadow · #17 12/15/11, 06:45 PM

When having my attorney checking out a piece of property I am thinking of purchasing one thing that raises concern is any existing easements. Having easments on my property means I am limited as to what I can do with that part of the property, Also if the property needs a easment to get to part of it it is time to run not walk away. The ladies from TX are correct you are looking at problems you have not even dreamed of. Second the price of the acerage is much less than a building lot proportionaly Are you sure you are not thinking of buying a swamp. Don't

CountryGoalie · #18 12/15/11, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

When having my attorney checking out a piece of property I am thinking of purchasing one thing that raises concern is any existing easements. Having easments on my property means I am limited as to what I can do with that part of the property, Also if the property needs a easment to get to part of it it is time to run not walk away. The ladies from TX are correct you are looking at problems you have not even dreamed of. Second the price of the acerage is much less than a building lot proportionaly Are you sure you are not thinking of buying a swamp. Don't

Yes, the price of the acreage is a lot lower than a building lot, but she is asking on the high end of what acreage around here averages ($800-$1200/acre). The subdivision lot for 10k behind it is what is out of the norm for our area - and it is really the only "development" in the area - a subdivision of approx. 10 or 11 lots (I believe there are currently 7or 8 homes built, 1 lot with an abandoned start to construction which just resold, and 2 empty lots).

It is not swamp. Yes, part of it floods for part of the year. Even w/ the high rains we had in NY with the remnants of two hurricanes this year, these homes along the creek remained safe. That is not to say we would not purchase flood insurance, I'm just saying. I have lived less than three miles from thi slot my entire life - I am not going into this blind.

I appreciate the warnings I have been given, and will take them into consideration - but we are not looking to build on the back portion - I was just interested in an easement, as a previous poster said - for access to pasture or firewood during the part of the year that would be too difficult to access from our front side. YOU try convincing a goat that outweighs you and doesn't like water, to cross a flooded area. It's more of an "in case of emergency, we need reliable access to this part of the property"...

But I diigress. Thank you, veryone, for your input on the legalities and specifics of easements! :mrgreen:

Pardon the typos - this was sent via Tapatalk on my cell phone!

Pony · #19 12/15/11, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Don't buy a piece of property with that many problems.

Yeah. I totally agree with Alice.

Too many problems, and I am sure you can find something you like in your price range. Just wait for it - it will come.

Easements are a major bone of contention. Made that mistake once - once - and will not make it again.

Michael W. Smith · #20 12/16/11, 11:49 AM

Most of the time, when people are talking easements on here, it is about someone else wanting to get an easement across their property. The majority of the time, people say NEVER give an easement.

The problem with an easement is it's forever. And while the owner still owns the property the easement is on - they are limited with what they can do on that easement - FOREVER!

Also, while the "neighbor" may be willing to grant you an easement and this person is easy to get along with, what happens down the road when he sells to the meanest person in the world who starts giving you trouble? Yes, legally you don't have a problem, but that person can make your life not so pleasant. Property does change hands. Just something to think about.

If I were you, I would contact the NC person to see if they are willing to do an easement. If they are willing, comment that if the property comes up for sale in the future, you would like first choice at it. (This prevents problems with new owners.)

If they aren't willing to do an easement, perhaps they are willing to sell it to you?