Flood Irrigating

[PD-Riverman]

This coming garden season I am planning to set up my gas farm pump next to a non running creek so I can flood the walk paths in the garden about once a week if needed. I am going to run my rows where there will be a drop from one end of the row to the other end so the water will flow to the low end. Its about 200 ft from my pump to the top of the hill which will is about 12ft higher than the pump, Then the land has a slight drop per foot for about 500 ft. I will be using 2" pipe free flowing, no pressure.

My question is----have any of you experimented with which of these two ways will be easier on the pump---

1. If I just run the pipe with the ground or

2. Put a barrel up about 15ft in the air above the pump then pump the water straight up into the barrel then let the water free flow the 2" line up and over the hill.

I was thinking that with the barrel I could use a smaller line up to the barrel with the pump motor running less rpm's and get about the same amount of water as trying to push the water 200 ft uphill------even if its not about the same amount of water I can run the pump a lot longer with the same amount of gas at a lower rpm------thinking I can get more water over the hill with less gas in the long run. Your thoughts or facts? Thanks

[Bearfootfarm]

I'd try it with the barrel first to make sure the pump will lift that high.
There will be less strain on it that way rather than trying fight both gravity and the friction of a 200 ft run of pipe.

You'll probably need a foot valve on the intake if you don't have one already

The hardest part about doing it that way though is you will have to support the pipe over that 200 ft to keep it from sagging.

Also, I'd make the garden as LEVEL as possible rather than having it slope, because if it slopes too much, the low end will be overwatered before the high end gets enough

If your soil is sandy, it's probably not going to work at all because the water will soak in before it runs very far.
Soaker hose or PVC with holes drilled along the length may be a better option

It will be an interesting experiment at least

[PD-Riverman]

My Plan if I used the barrel was to let the pipe lay on the dirt, not support it in the air. I tried the soaker hose---I bought 2000ft and with this pump set-up pulling water out the creek clogged the soaker hose. I was using a pump screen but it clogged. Guess I needed a better filter, but the soaker hose was already clogged so I put it under the shed---still under the shed 10 years later. I understand what you mean about the slope but no more than I will have I think that part will work.

.

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

I'd try it with the barrel first to make sure the pump will lift that high.
There will be less strain on it that way rather than trying fight both gravity and the friction of a 200 ft run of pipe.

You'll probably need a foot valve on the intake if you don't have one already

The hardest part about doing it that way though is you will have to support the pipe over that 200 ft to keep it from sagging.

Also, I'd make the garden as LEVEL as possible rather than having it slope, because if it slopes too much, the low end will be overwatered before the high end gets enough

If your soil is sandy, it's probably not going to work at all because the water will soak in before it runs very far.
Soaker hose or PVC with holes drilled along the length may be a better option

It will be an interesting experiment at least

[jwal10]

You may need a bigger pipe to get enough gravity flow with only 3' of drop (12' of hill and only 15' up to tank). What ever you use to distribute the water at the head end needs to be natural flow or you will have a lot of erosion. Drill holes in the top of your distribution pipe, keep it level, it will fill, then bubble up and out. More head to get 15' into tank than 12' if you do it this way with little head pressure at top....James

[mtman]

make it level not on a slant fill it up evenly or the water will run out the lown side thats the way you flood a garden

[PD-Riverman]

I know everyones garden is different. In order to make my garden "Level" I would have to get some bulldozers, earth movers etc. My garden this coming season will be 2+ acres on the side of a 12 acre field that I used 1 acre of this year. Kinda got to go with the land on this one. I was just trying to figure the best/cheapest way to give it some water if it is needed. Also the other side of this field I am going to plant 2 acres of field corn. I already got a pump by the creek with 2" pipe running to the edge of the field for sprinklers in the yard, will have to extend the pipe to flood the corn rows. The 2 pumps will be about 150 yards apart. My garden suffered because of needing water this year even though I hauled a 250 gal barrel to the garden many of times to give the plants a drink. Trying to come up with a better way for this coming year. Thanks

Originally Posted by mtman

make it level not on a slant fill it up evenly or the water will run out the lown side thats the way you flood a garden

[OkieDavid]

Based on the updated site conditions, sounds like some terracing would solve the problem of level. Take a look at some of the hillside gardening in Asia, those folks have farmed the same ground for centuries and I doubt there are many unsolved kinks in their system of flood irrigation.

[SFM in KY]

My grandparents and parents used to flood irrigate the big garden and potato patch from the creek in MT (you have to irrigate there). As I remember, there was a small drop from top to bottom and they would start with the pipe at the top. They had the garden 'terraced' with dirt barriers and a ditch they shoveled across the garden. They would fill the ditch, then break through the dirt barrier so the water would run down each section to flood irrigate, starting at the top. As each higher section would be irrigated, they would then move the pipe to the next ditch down.

I don't remember it very well and by the time I was raising my own garden, had a much smaller garden and a well/soaker hose system but I do remember the ditch/berm system we used then, just not sure exactly how it worked.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by PD-Riverman

This coming garden season I am planning to set up my gas farm pump next to a non running creek so I can flood the walk paths in the garden about once a week if needed. I am going to run my rows where there will be a drop from one end of the row to the other end so the water will flow to the low end. Its about 200 ft from my pump to the top of the hill which will is about 12ft higher than the pump, Then the land has a slight drop per foot for about 500 ft. I will be using 2" pipe free flowing, no pressure.

My question is----have any of you experimented with which of these two ways will be easier on the pump---

1. If I just run the pipe with the ground or

2. Put a barrel up about 15ft in the air above the pump then pump the water straight up into the barrel then let the water free flow the 2" line up and over the hill.

I was thinking that with the barrel I could use a smaller line up to the barrel with the pump motor running less rpm's and get about the same amount of water as trying to push the water 200 ft uphill------even if its not about the same amount of water I can run the pump a lot longer with the same amount of gas at a lower rpm------thinking I can get more water over the hill with less gas in the long run. Your thoughts or facts? Thanks

Its going to require "X" amount of energy to pump the water to its destination no matter which method you use. However by pumping the water higher to begin with, then letting it gravity feed to its destination may actually cost you more in the long run. Any unnecessary elevation you force the water up is wasted energy. I have done a fair amount of irrigation using a variety of systems. In the situation you describe I would simply run a direct line to the garden and bypass the barrel idea entirely.

[PD-Riverman]

Ok let bypass the barrel idea then-----------------Now put your thinking cap on for another question. Let me give you a word picture first. If the hill we got to get over is 12ft higher than the pump and 200ft away, meaning I got to pump water uphill for 200ft to get to the 12ft height. What if I pumped the water 12ft high in the first 20ft of pipe and let it 90 with a long 90 degree connector then elivate(?) the pipe level until it got to the peak of the feild. Would that take less energy for the pump? I do not think I would want to put that much work into supporting the pipe up to 12ft in the air, but I would like to know if it takes less energy to do the lift with the shorter pipe length.

[Ky-Jeeper]

What amount of drop does your creek have in you property? Their may be a possibility of using a water RAM pump like the ones talked about at motherearth news, which uses no electricity. Then pump it to your tank.

Your Soaker hose isn't dead yet. I had the same problems so I just drilled 1/8" holes in it.

[PD-Riverman]

Originally Posted by Ky-Jeeper

What amount of drop does your creek have in you property? Their may be a possibility of using a water RAM pump like the ones talked about at motherearth news, which uses no electricity. Then pump it to your tank.

Your Soaker hose isn't dead yet. I had the same problems so I just drilled 1/8" holes in it.

I think the Ram pump requires flowing water to work, that is why in my first post I stated it was a Non-running creek. It will flow if we had a flood--its a beaver damed creek but most of the time it does not flow.

The soaker hose is not dead I know---What I could do was stretch it a little and it would work again, but the pump, was pumping some slime/stuff through the screen and would re-clog it. I am on solar where my regular electric water pump is so I can not use that pump to water the garden. My garden is way to big for my set-up with soaker hose. Usually in the early garden season I have a small pond in the woods next to the garden that I can pump water out of to water the garden, but it drys up as the weather warms up so that is why I was thinking of setting up the pump at the lower creek. Thanks

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by PD-Riverman

Ok let bypass the barrel idea then-----------------Now put your thinking cap on for another question. Let me give you a word picture first. If the hill we got to get over is 12ft higher than the pump and 200ft away, meaning I got to pump water uphill for 200ft to get to the 12ft height. What if I pumped the water 12ft high in the first 20ft of pipe and let it 90 with a long 90 degree connector then elivate(?) the pipe level until it got to the peak of the feild. Would that take less energy for the pump? I do not think I would want to put that much work into supporting the pipe up to 12ft in the air, but I would like to know if it takes less energy to do the lift with the shorter pipe length.

any bend in the pipe creates resistance.... the shorter the bend, the more resistance. 90s are not good when running irrigation lines. It takes no more energy to lift your water gradually over a 200 foot span than it does to lift it straight up 12 feet, and then across a level 200 foot distance. actually it takes a little less because you dont have that 90 bend. I would just run the line across the ground from the pump to the highest corner of the garden, then let it gravity feed in open corrugates to water your crops. You do not need to level the land per se... but you do need the corrugates to have a slight continuous fall from one end to the other. on hillsides this can be accomplished by using a transit to mark off the "grade" required and then set up your rows to fit the contour of the land. You end up with crooked rows, but daddy always said you can get more plants in a crooked row than a straight one A much simpler method I used a few years ago was sprinklers. I ran a two inch line from the creek to my tater patch (1 1/2 to 2 acres) and set up 8 sprinklers about 40' apart. I would let the pump run one tank of gas... then move my sprinkers over to the next set. It took me about 4 sets to get the taters watered good.... just in time for ma nature to set in and rain an inch or so nearly every time!

[PD-Riverman]

Thanks for your input. Thanks Everyone!!

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

any bend in the pipe creates resistance.... the shorter the bend, the more resistance. 90s are not good when running irrigation lines. It takes no more energy to lift your water gradually over a 200 foot span than it does to lift it straight up 12 feet, and then across a level 200 foot distance. actually it takes a little less because you dont have that 90 bend. I would just run the line across the ground from the pump to the highest corner of the garden, then let it gravity feed in open corrugates to water your crops. You do not need to level the land per se... but you do need the corrugates to have a slight continuous fall from one end to the other. on hillsides this can be accomplished by using a transit to mark off the "grade" required and then set up your rows to fit the contour of the land. You end up with crooked rows, but daddy always said you can get more plants in a crooked row than a straight one A much simpler method I used a few years ago was sprinklers. I ran a two inch line from the creek to my tater patch (1 1/2 to 2 acres) and set up 8 sprinklers about 40' apart. I would let the pump run one tank of gas... then move my sprinkers over to the next set. It took me about 4 sets to get the taters watered good.... just in time for ma nature to set in and rain an inch or so nearly every time!

[Tana Mc]

This past summer, we did something very like what you are describing---only my garden is not nearly that big.
We have a large pond behind the house and down the hill from the garden. We just put a 3/4 hp pump in the pond and pumped water up the hill in a water hose. It was very slow going and I plan to upgrade the pump. I am sure the rise is more than 12ft in our case and probably close to 200 ft.