Can we get some help here for veterans ?

[woodsy]

I posted this in the veterans forum but might get more exposure here.
Congress is once again going after veterans benefits , sign up and be heard!

http://heroes.vfw.org/site/PageNavig...autologin=true

I signed the petition and have been asked by the VFW to pass it along to five people i know.
You do not need to be a veteran to sign it.
Every signature counts.
And please forward the petition to five people you know

This is what is at stake:
http://www.vfw.org/News-and-Events/A...OKEN-PROMISES/

Veterans thank you for your support !

[nadja]

I have heard that online petions are not legal......

[Sonshine]

Ive signed it. Thank you for posting this. I've also forwarded it.

[oregon woodsmok]

So I sign it and send it on and my friends sign it and send it on and yadda yadda.

When does it get to the people who are responsible for the law making?

On-line petitions are not a legal process. All this is is a newer version of the old chain letter.

[kranac]

I was in for almost 8 years left as a E-6 and was clearing $60,000 a year at age 26 and most was tax free because it was allowances. (and this didn't take count the years in combat tax free zones)

There is plenty of room to cut in the VA and that list sounds like a good start. I would agree though that if the VA is taking a cut every program should.

If nobody is prepared to have their pet program or subsidy cut then there isn't hope for this country. American soldiers can't fight against the enemy "debt".

[NickyBlade]

Originally Posted by kranac

I was in for almost 8 years left as a E-6 and was clearing $60,000 a year at age 26 and most was tax free because it was allowances. (and this didn't take count the years in combat tax free zones)

There is plenty of room to cut in the VA and that list sounds like a good start. I would agree though that if the VA is taking a cut every program should.

If nobody is prepared to have their pet program or subsidy cut then there isn't hope for this country. American soldiers can't fight against the enemy "debt".

If it was so great, then why are you out?

I don't have a problem with cuts, but it's not right that we spent the past SEVENTEEN years here for that retirement... It should not simply be eliminated or moved to a 401K where we can lose it all.

The DOD has a contract with my husband, and my husband has held up his end of it. I don't have a problem with pay freezes, paying more for medical (although we have tricare standard and pay 20% all ready), losing cola, etc... but if the military have to be hit, everyone should be hit... but you should be able to live through it. Eliminating the retirement completely is like beating us with a sledge hammer.

If the military wants to save money... stop dual BAH for couple who reside together, quit handing out over the counter meds at the pharmacies and let families buy their own Tylenol, expedite kicking out the dead weight criminals (this should NOT take 10 months), figure out a way to stop theft! Oh, and don't cover antibiotics that cost $1100 a month to treat acne! (Solodyn)

I need to quit reading online... if I hear "Military welfare" one more time, I'm gonna scream. =/

[salmonslayer]

Originally Posted by NickyBlade

If it was so great, then why are you out?

I don't have a problem with cuts, but it's not right that we spent the past SEVENTEEN years here for that retirement... It should not simply be eliminated or moved to a 401K where we can lose it all.

The DOD has a contract with my husband, and my husband has held up his end of it. I don't have a problem with pay freezes, paying more for medical (although we have tricare standard and pay 20% all ready), losing cola, etc... but if the military have to be hit, everyone should be hit... but you should be able to live through it. Eliminating the retirement completely is like beating us with a sledge hammer.

If the military wants to save money... stop dual BAH for couple who reside together, quit handing out over the counter meds at the pharmacies and let families buy their own Tylenol, expedite kicking out the dead weight criminals (this should NOT take 10 months), figure out a way to stop theft! Oh, and don't cover antibiotics that cost $1100 a month to treat acne! (Solodyn)

I need to quit reading online... if I hear "Military welfare" one more time, I'm gonna scream. =/

Dont let the news give you too much pause Nicky. They have so far been clear that any changes would not affect currently serving members retirements unless they volunteered to switch. I think the change would fundamentally alter the current all volunteer force in a very negative way by encouraging mid level Officers and NCOs or those in technical fields to leave early. Only something like 16% of enlisted personnel even make it to retirement and only 6% of US citizens ever serve...you guys just keep on with your head held high and look forward to your well earned retirement.

[NickyBlade]

Thank you salmonslayer.

Our problem isn't so much about whether or not my husband gets his retirement. I mean, nothing is certain. If we lose it, then it's because we're supposed to be on a different path. We have faith in the Lord that things will work out how they are supposed to.

Our problem is with having to justify that my husband has earned and deserves his retirement. This isn't just online. We even have family members that will say to our face that he is over paid, etc. What I don't understand is why, if the military is so easy and pays so awesome, then why aren't all these people enlisted?

Before the army, he made about the same baking bread in a bread factory... Would people walk into a bread factory and tell the employees that they don't deserve $18+ an hour to make bread? Time and a half on day 6? Double time on day 7? Actually, during the weeks with overtime, he brought home a ton more than he makes in the army. No one ever said to us then that he was overpaid or that we should pay more for our health insurance, etc.

Instead of complaining that an opportunity is too good for others, why not go get that opportunity for yourself?

[bergere]

Originally Posted by kranac

I was in for almost 8 years left as a E-6 and was clearing $60,000 a year at age 26 and most was tax free because it was allowances. (and this didn't take count the years in combat tax free zones)

There is plenty of room to cut in the VA and that list sounds like a good start. I would agree though that if the VA is taking a cut every program should.

If nobody is prepared to have their pet program or subsidy cut then there isn't hope for this country. American soldiers can't fight against the enemy "debt".

Wow... my Husband was an E6, 20 years in the Navy and he was only making $38,000 before taxes at the end of his years of service. Got out in 99. We have a lot of military friends and family and no one was making $60,000 a year unless you were an Officer. And a E6 after only 8 years in.... first one I have heard of.

As for bennies, he receives a very modest retirement pay, Medical and Dental are a joke. Try to find a Doc that will even let us walk into their office.
Husband earned his bennies.

Maybe the Gov should stop giving free housing, food and so on to the illegals coming in from Mexico. $113 billion dollars a year they spend on them, could be used for our veterans and legally born tax pay citizens that have paid their dues.
Instead of taking what little the Vets have away from them.

They give up the best years of their life to go where ever the Gov sends them, they work long hours, much of the time dangerous work. Doing things many citizens would never do.... defending this country.

And when they get out.... try finding a fair wage full time job. ....

[kranac]

Originally Posted by bergere

Wow... my Husband was an E6, 20 years in the Navy and he was only making $38,000 before taxes at the end of his years of service. Got out in 99. We have a lot of military friends and family and no one was making $60,000 a year unless you were an Officer. And a E6 after only 8 years in.... first one I have heard of.

As for bennies, he receives a very modest retirement pay, Medical and Dental are a joke. Try to find a Doc that will even let us walk into their office.
Husband earned his bennies.

Maybe the Gov should stop giving free housing, food and so on to the illegals coming in from Mexico. $113 billion dollars a year they spend on them, could be used for our veterans and legally born tax pay citizens that have paid their dues.
Instead of taking what little the Vets have away from them.

They give up the best years of their life to go where ever the Gov sends them, they work long hours, much of the time dangerous work. Doing things many citizens would never do.... defending this country.

And when they get out.... try finding a fair wage full time job. ....

I understand your concern. If the military benefits are going to take a hit it should be only after every other program has taken a cut.

You can't just count the salary it doesn't work that way in real life. When you get a job and they pay you 50k a year you still have to pay the mortgage food healthcare etc.... and the actual spending income is well below the initial salaray. Besides the Military pay is hardly taxed I recieved a good portion of my salary in allowances that are tax free. For example in 2006 Hawaii was giving away $2400 in BAH(with dependants) tax free + BAS tax free + salary + free healthcare.

So the argument that making only 38 grand is bunk. Once you add the benefits of free housing, free healthcare, allowance for food etc it would more accurately reflect a minimum 60k depending on geo location etc.

As for the rank issue go to any recruiter and they can get you started as an E-3 from the day you graduate boot camp there are programs. 1 year later your testing for E4. As they say "pick your rate pick your fate." This also goes for duty stations some get shafted in housing and others can make a killing or have nice/poor housing.


I enjoyed the Military and am proud of my service. My wife and I chose to raise our children on a homestead and not around military bases without their father present.

After 20 years most enlisted only walk away with $1600-$1700 in a pension for the rest of their life. Everyone knows that isn't enough to support a person in full retirement. So at 38-39-40 you have to get another job thats understandable.

As for finding a full time job beyond the Military that should have been considered while enrolled in the Military. Many changed jobs from AW (submarine hunter drops Sonobouys from helocopters) to and IT positions simply because there wasnt' a private market for submarine hunters.

not to hijack this thread but the VA has room to cut and if we don't all allow our pet programs to take a hair cut we will be so in debt the time will come they will have to be cut in its entirety. A modest hair cut from time to time may save the programs people feel entitled too from elimination.

[BillHoo]

Originally Posted by kranac

I was in for almost 8 years left as a E-6 and was clearing $60,000 a year at age 26 and most was tax free because it was allowances. (and this didn't take count the years in combat tax free zones)

There is plenty of room to cut in the VA and that list sounds like a good start. I would agree though that if the VA is taking a cut every program should.

If nobody is prepared to have their pet program or subsidy cut then there isn't hope for this country. American soldiers can't fight against the enemy "debt".

I've got 26 years of service and this is the best we've had since I've been in.

I would cut expensive weapon systems and contractor support before cutting anything on the troops.

I agree. We won the cold war against the Soviets because they could not afford to keep up....but we kept right on spending well past victory.

[bergere]

We did not get free housing, we did not live on base. We had only one son and could not get on base housing any where he was stationed. We paid Rent in town, out of our own pocket.
We also paid for all our own food, and everything we needed out of his modest pay check.
There was no extra pay given to us for this.

What my husband was paid, was NOT bunk. It is fact and still have all the paper work to prove it.
Last couple of years at E6 he was making $38,000 BEFORE taxes... and we did pay tax.

Back in the day... you started at the bottom and worked your way up.
Guess things have changed.

Originally Posted by kranac

I understand your concern. If the military benefits are going to take a hit it should be only after every other program has taken a cut.

You can't just count the salary it doesn't work that way in real life. When you get a job and they pay you 50k a year you still have to pay the mortgage food healthcare etc.... and the actual spending income is well below the initial salaray. Besides the Military pay is hardly taxed I recieved a good portion of my salary in allowances that are tax free. For example in 2006 Hawaii was giving away $2400 in BAH(with dependants) tax free + BAS tax free + salary + free healthcare.

So the argument that making only 38 grand is bunk. Once you add the benefits of free housing, free healthcare, allowance for food etc it would more accurately reflect a minimum 60k depending on geo location etc.

As for the rank issue go to any recruiter and they can get you started as an E-3 from the day you graduate boot camp there are programs. 1 year later your testing for E4. As they say "pick your rate pick your fate." This also goes for duty stations some get shafted in housing and others can make a killing or have nice/poor housing.


I enjoyed the Military and am proud of my service. My wife and I chose to raise our children on a homestead and not around military bases without their father present.

After 20 years most enlisted only walk away with $1600-$1700 in a pension for the rest of their life. Everyone knows that isn't enough to support a person in full retirement. So at 38-39-40 you have to get another job thats understandable.

As for finding a full time job beyond the Military that should have been considered while enrolled in the Military. Many changed jobs from AW (submarine hunter drops Sonobouys from helocopters) to and IT positions simply because there wasnt' a private market for submarine hunters.

not to hijack this thread but the VA has room to cut and if we don't all allow our pet programs to take a hair cut we will be so in debt the time will come they will have to be cut in its entirety. A modest hair cut from time to time may save the programs people feel entitled too from elimination.

[woodsy]

I guess i don't get it but i am a vet.
Are the vets suppose to lay down and accept whatever congress decides to take away from them what they were promised ?
Granted, the VFW petition may not be binding legally but it is sure to get their attention when 5 -10 million peoples names show up at their doorstep rejecting their proposed cuts.
The VFW is a 2 million member organization and is a force to recon with, even for congress.
If you don't like the petition then write your senators and congressmen, its easy.
Don't let congress because of their own mismanagement of funds steal from the vets and their families who have sacrificed much !

[NickyBlade]

We were stationed at Schofield barracks in Hawaii from 07 to 10... and yes, BAH there was 2412 a month for an E6... and rent there was $2400 a month. We're at Drum now in NY and E6 BAH is $1469 a month, and rent is $1410, but pay your own utilities! Apartment prices are artificially inflated around bases because landlords KNOW what BAH is and charge accordingly. Two hours away from here we'd pay half the rent.

DH is E6 over 17 years and base pay, bas, and bah is just over $60,000... you are correct. But, at 8 years, you were no where near that. But, whatever... Like I said before... DH used to make that BAKING BREAD and being home every night. But apparently, soldiering for that amount is being overpaid. Yeah... =/

My brother and his wife are cops... they make about the same (60 to 70 grand a year each)... paid with tax dollars also. Are they overpaid too? They are 25 and out retirement and free health care. None of us are getting rich... but we're doing middle class jobs for middle class pay.

[kranac]

What do you call someone with a guaranteed pay check of $1,700 for the rest of their life at the age of 41.... a half-milllionare.


With the assumption of receiving $1,700 a month for the rest of your life at age 41. You would need almost 500,000k at age 41 to purchase an annunity to guaranty that.

Thats a great benefit for all our veterans! This is why they endure what they consider are low wages for extended period of time...

People undervalue the pension as just a small check...


Source-

http://www.brkdirect.com/spia/EZQUOTE.ASP



Your investment of $462,942 will yield 3.24% based upon our mortality assumptions and the U.S. Treasury yield curve as of October 26, 2011. This investment will provide you with $1,700 every month for as long as you live, beginning on December 1, 2011.

If you die prior to recovering your investment, BHLN will continue to make the same payments until your estate or heirs recover your investment.

Under current IRS rules, if your annuity is purchased with non-qualified after-tax dollars, your annual after-tax cash payment, assuming a marginal tax rate of 40.0%, will be $16,568 every year for the first 42.8 years because the IRS will consider 53.0% of each payment to you a return of your principal. Any payments you may receive after 42.8 years will be fully taxable, reducing your annual after-tax cash return to $12,240 thereafter.

[salmonslayer]

Originally Posted by bergere

We did not get free housing, we did not live on base. We had only one son and could not get on base housing any where he was stationed. We paid Rent in town, out of our own pocket.
We also paid for all our own food, and everything we needed out of his modest pay check.
There was no extra pay given to us for this.

What my husband was paid, was NOT bunk. It is fact and still have all the paper work to prove it.
Last couple of years at E6 he was making $38,000 BEFORE taxes... and we did pay tax.

Back in the day... you started at the bottom and worked your way up.
Guess things have changed.

To be fair bergere that is just not correct; your amount of 38K seems about right for the time frame but you did get housing and food allowances that were tax free. I have been in the military since the mid 70s and married since 1979 and we always been entitled to additional tax free housing allowance and food subsistence and like you we almost never got into base housing (once was enough). If you didnt get those allowances you either werent married or were ordered to live in base housing and refused which used to be a choice. I will tell you pay has greatly increased in the past couple of decades. I got married as an E3 in 1979 and brought home $525.00 a month including housing and food allowances; when I retired last year I was making 6 figures (of which almost half was tax free). We have two sons currently serving, one is an E6 in the AF and he brings home almost 6K per month including his flight pay and housing allowances.

You arent going to ever get rich in the military but the wages are now comparable to the civilian sector for most MOSs and as has been pointed out the retirement benefits are why people stay. But anyone who doesnt think they earn that needs to spend years deployed overseas away from family, they need to move every 2 or 3 years and not be able to build any home equity, and they need to experience the joy of the physical and mental toll. It is a unique occupation that isnt equivalent to a civilian job in most respects and I dont consider those things I mentioned above as negatives, they just are part of the career and I would go back and do it all again in a heart beat. In the private sector you get to stay close to family and may work for years with little or no chance of advancement, in the military everyone is afforded the same opportunity and you write your own ticket based on your interests. In the private sector you usually cant retire until your 60; in the military if you complete 20 years active duty you can retire with a fairly decent retirement that includes increasingly valuable medical, low cost dental, and a relatively low cost survivor benefit plan. Of course you could die before you get any of it.

I do think its not only reasonable but necessary to look to DoD for significant cuts but the reason so many military and retired are afraid of it is because our dear leaders are reluctant to give up costly and pet programs that exists in their districts. Anyone who doesnt think there is a lot of waste in the DoD either hasnt served or isnt being honest but lets look at cuts that dont penalize people who have now spent a decade fighting and sacrificing.

[HeelSpur]

Originally Posted by bergere

Wow... my Husband was an E6, 20 years in the Navy and he was only making $38,000 before taxes at the end of his years of service. Got out in 99. We have a lot of military friends and family and no one was making $60,000 a year unless you were an Officer. And a E6 after only 8 years in.... first one I have heard of.

When I was in the navy it was very common for a BT or MM to make E-6 before their 6th year was up. If you signed up as a 6 year obligation, when one graduated school they became E-4's. I about 1 year you can make E-5, then 3 years to make E-6. It was quite possible to make Chief (E-7) before your 9th year was up. That was then but it may be different now.

[Catalytic]

Originally Posted by bergere

We did not get free housing, we did not live on base. We had only one son and could not get on base housing any where he was stationed. We paid Rent in town, out of our own pocket.
We also paid for all our own food, and everything we needed out of his modest pay check.
There was no extra pay given to us for this.

What my husband was paid, was NOT bunk. It is fact and still have all the paper work to prove it.
Last couple of years at E6 he was making $38,000 BEFORE taxes... and we did pay tax.

Back in the day... you started at the bottom and worked your way up.
Guess things have changed.

You said your husband retired or got out in 1999? If so, you certainly did get a housing allowance (VHA and some other acronym I can't recall right now back then, today it is called BAH), and your husband most likely did get "separate rats" as the servicemembers usually call them. The sep rats would have been taken away when he was on the boat/sub/whatever, because he was being fed by the military cooks then.

If you in fact did make $38,000 or anywhere around that in 1999 as an E6 with more than 18 years in, you were getting something for extra pay, because basic pay back then was ~$26k annually.

Pay was bad back then. Raises in the early '00s brought the military more on par with their civilian counterparts, thank goodness.

[bluetogreens]

currently an e-6 with 15 yrs of service, living in central Oklahoma, after taxes i bring home about 52 a year. We live in a modest >$130K mortgage and even though i hate tri-care currently it is still "free" medical care and for a family of 4 with another on the way it is a tangible benefit that saves us THOUSANDS a year. you still have to work your way up though when i started in 97 as an e-1 it was 734 a month base pay.

[radiofish]

Originally Posted by HeelSpur

When I was in the navy it was very common for a BT or MM to make E-6 before their 6th year was up. If you signed up as a 6 year obligation, when one graduated school they became E-4's. I about 1 year you can make E-5, then 3 years to make E-6. It was quite possible to make Chief (E-7) before your 9th year was up. That was then but it may be different now.

I was scratching my head wondering how one would become an E-4, after finishing their advanced training/ Tech School? OK they must be Navy or Air Force, I guess?

I do know that with a 6 year obligation, 4 years active duty / 2 years reserves and the loss of one stripe due to my own alcohol induced stupidity - I was Honorably Discharged as an E-3 (0311/ 0331 Infantry), from the U.S. Marine Corps.

Plus instead of signing some on-line petition, I would rather directly write my U.S. Congressman and U.S,. Senator on this issue. Either as a Marine Corps Veteran, as the former Post Adjutant of the local American Legion Post, or as a former Post Officer of the local Marine Corps League Detachment. The local VFW hasn't gotten me to become a Post Officer yet.