Full-time homesteading? No "job"?

[unregistered168043]

Do any of you do this, and what do you think you would need in order to go 'all out' and truly become a "homesteader"?

I currently live on my homestead, produce most of my own food, cut my own winter fuel and etc.. I did it for a while without working but the bills for new equipment, and etc started to deplete my savings so now I got a part-time job.

I was having a debate with a friend of mine regarding how much money a single guy would need in order to homestead full-time for the rest of his life. My friend thinks you would need over a million dollars but I think he is way WAY off. He is using his model of living in the suburbs, supporting 2 children, paying a mortgage, car payments, big property taxes and buying everything he needs.

My argument is that a healthy, 40 year old, single guy on a completely paid-for homestead, good paid-for vehicle, no heating bills, produces his own food, and low property taxes can live indefinitely on about $600,000...and I'd say most of that is 'just in case' money.

My yearly expenses are about 13,000 now ( not counting all the tools, equipment, and toys I have been shelling out for which I figure to last more than decade ). I figure the 20 year bond ( just by way of example ) is giving about 4%, conservatively, so if you were to put 400 grand into something like that, you'd have a 16,000 yearly income...and you could keep 200,000 fairly liquid for necessities but still obtain some return. All in all you'd probably end up with about 20,000 yearly ( not counting any farmers market income I might bring in which would be all gravy ).

Yes, I know "inflation" will eat away at you through time but there are some hedges against inflation too. AND, I think you would become even more frugal and more efficient as a homesteader and find ways to lower your expenses in time...which might help soften the 'blow' of inflation. I also figure that since I'm already 40, I'll probably die in another 30 years anyway so its not like I have to hold out forever ( just saying, there is a finite amount of 'time' that any amount of money needs to last....if I die next year then 13,000 will be enough to live on 'for the rest of my life' ).

Whaddya think? Just tossing the concept around.

[Michael W. Smith]

Well, I'm sure it's all goning to depend on each individual person or family.

You don't mention anything about electricity - but I assume you have it. That is going to be a monthly expense - and 20 years from now - when you are still alive, I don't think you will be paying the same amount of money as you are today. Even going "off grid" and having either windpower and solar panels OR even both, those do carry some expenses with them as well - and if they need replaced - even if you have them paid off now, will result in a huge bill.

Even just having enough money per year to pay the yearly expenses won't be enough in the coming years. What are you doing about health insurance?
Yeah, you might be "healthy as a horse" now, but usually the older you get, the ailments start. And even if you are healthy, accidents do happen. What happens if you cut your foot off are are in the hospital for a week? That hospital bill will quickly deplete your "savings".

Also, what about disability? What happens if you are in some kind of accident that you can't homestead anymore? You won't be able to pay someone to do it or if you do, your savings will be depleted quickly.

I know it's nice to think about living like your Great Grandfather did - on a small farm and working the land. But the health care didn't cost near what it does today with modern technology. Plus you also have take into consideration that your Great Grandfather's life expectancy is as long as yours. For example - in 1900, the average life expectency was 47 years old and only 1 in 25 people lived to be 60.

Now, people who are retired - that have a pension and health care insurance - I can see them doing what you are suggesting, but I think the "average" homesteader is either already retired or works on an outside job.

Just my opinion.

[Mulegirl]

The health care problem was what came to mind for me as well--our system is horrendously screwed up, and while you might be able to find an individual doctor who would let you pay in foodstuffs, if you ever had to go to the hospital you'd be in a very bad place. That's the reason DH and I are never planning to go completely homesteader--we know we need the health insurance offered by our jobs.

[Qhorseman]

Check out some of the other thread on other forums. There are some folks here living very frugally on their homestead. I keep my must pay expenses at about $200 a month. I have a daughter in college, so, I work off farm to pay her tuition. She graduates next year, I plan on quitting. I have paid health care from the military so that is not a worry.

Most of it depends on what you are willing to give up to live the life.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Qhorseman

Most of it depends on what you are willing to give up to live the life.

This is, really, what it boils down to.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by Mulegirl

The health care problem was what came to mind for me as well--our system is horrendously screwed up, and while you might be able to find an individual doctor who would let you pay in foodstuffs, if you ever had to go to the hospital you'd be in a very bad place. That's the reason DH and I are never planning to go completely homesteader--we know we need the health insurance offered by our jobs.

Not sure if you read through my entire post or really thought about it too much but I mention keeping 200,000 dollars almost liquid 'just in case'. Now I don't have any health insurance ( never had it EVER which is how I was able to buy this place), both my parents had it all their lives and they died immediately after being diagnosed with cancer. Treatments didn't prolong their lives for even one minute. I know my life is temporary and it's more important to me to live the life that I want while I'm able then to compromise just to buy myself a few more sickly years when I'm old. I look at it as a personal choice...if having 'insurance' that MIGHT prolong my life means not living that life the way I want then I don't see the point.

BUT I think having 200,000 on hand for emergencies is pretty adequate and better than most....especially when you consider that emergency room bills are cut down by 2/3rds for people who pay out of pocket ( ask me how I know ). I'm not saying there are no risks...but if you aren't living the life you want because you are afraid of 'what if', then thats not a philosophy I can get behind.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by Michael W. Smith

Well, I'm sure it's all goning to depend on each individual person or family.

You don't mention anything about electricity - but I assume you have it. That is going to be a monthly expense - and 20 years from now - when you are still alive, I don't think you will be paying the same amount of money as you are today. Even going "off grid" and having either windpower and solar panels OR even both, those do carry some expenses with them as well - and if they need replaced - even if you have them paid off now, will result in a huge bill.

Even just having enough money per year to pay the yearly expenses won't be enough in the coming years. What are you doing about health insurance?
Yeah, you might be "healthy as a horse" now, but usually the older you get, the ailments start. And even if you are healthy, accidents do happen. What happens if you cut your foot off are are in the hospital for a week? That hospital bill will quickly deplete your "savings".

Also, what about disability? What happens if you are in some kind of accident that you can't homestead anymore? You won't be able to pay someone to do it or if you do, your savings will be depleted quickly.

I know it's nice to think about living like your Great Grandfather did - on a small farm and working the land. But the health care didn't cost near what it does today with modern technology. Plus you also have take into consideration that your Great Grandfather's life expectancy is as long as yours. For example - in 1900, the average life expectency was 47 years old and only 1 in 25 people lived to be 60.

Now, people who are retired - that have a pension and health care insurance - I can see them doing what you are suggesting, but I think the "average" homesteader is either already retired or works on an outside job.

Just my opinion.

#1 My yearly estimate included electricity...it is actually an average of everything I have spent in the last 2 years.

#2 I think I covered inflation pretty thoroughly

#3 Keeping 200,000 dollars on hand for emergencies to cover medical.

[FarmboyBill]

Well, to live TOTALLY off the farm. You would need to grow enough grain to feed the animals you would need to raise the meat, milk, eggs, butter, feathers for your mattress. You would need around 10 acres good hay. This would support your milk, cream, butter needs, and supply some feed to your rabbits, and in the winter birds, chickens ect and raise some baby calves for something to buy stuff you cannot raise or grow yourself. You would need another 10 acres hay to feed 4 good work horses or mules to farm your place with. It would take 3 on a sulkey, 4 on a gang plow if you ever wanted to get done spring plowing, plus their foals, not to mention a couple doz sheep and goats, both to supply meat and milk and young to sell or replace old stock, and sheep for wool for yourself to spin into clothes for yourself and to sell. You would need around at least 10 acres corn for all the animals that eat it and their needs and 10 again for oats for especially the work animals, but also for other animal feed mixes. You would need one old tractor with a pulley wheel to run buzz saw, hammermill, grinder, husker shredder, combine, bailer. You would need all the equipment to be able to put in these crops and harvest them. Not to mention equipment for the garden. 5 schovel, 2 handle spike harrow or equiv, lister, walking plow, You would need a windmill to keep up water for all the animals. Useing all the manure you can scrape together and spread, along with crop rotation should suffice for fertilizer. The sailable offspring, whould include say 500 chickens, a hundred turkeys 1/2 at thanksgiving and 1/2 at Christmas, 2 doz bottle or weined calves, a couple doz young goats, and sheep, at least 2 or 3 horse foals, ought to keep you in money enough to buy the things you cannot raise or grow yourself. Along with that, gas/oil/grease.

BUT, If you have a major accident with no insurance, either car or personal, or the engine or trans blows in any vehicle cancils that all out in an instant.

AND, as stated, youll need wind or something to make electricity. Think you dont need it. Try welding without it. Can be done, but who wants to do it that way. Try chargeing up a battery without it. Can be done, but who has the time. UNLESS you buy or make a treadmill or 4 horse turnstile thing I cant remember the name of it now to run a generator.

To sum it up, It can be done, But I dont think one man has enough time in a day to do it all.

[Goldeneye]

You're just going to get a lot of people putting your plan down because they don't live that way, can't live that way, don't have the courage to roll the dice to live their dreams, or don't want that dream.

I think your reasoning is sound provided you are aware of the risks (i.e health problems, injuries, etc ). If you see that things aren't working, you can always sell your place and move closer to town to work. I don't see any reason why a healthy single man couldn't live on 600, 000 if he is mostly self reliant.

[farmerj]

1) Where did this $400K come from?

2) Where did the funds come from to pay for the homestead and all the tools for it?

I about went ballistic when I came home from an 11 month deployment. The financial plan we had prior to my leaving was basically tossed in the garbage. What should have been a nice start of $15K into a savings account was actually $15K in credit cards and revolving debt.

Can you do it? Yeah, I believe your numbers to be realistic. But getting there by age 40 is another thing. Especially if you have a partner.

I do just fine. I don't eat what I don't produce here. except the occasional trade out. I don't miss it either. I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything. I know where my food came from, its all natural all the time. my monthly expenses run $190 or so. 2 vehicles on the road, high speed internet, and cell phone are my luxuries. Electric is a necessity, far as I'm concerned. Built this house and it's paid for. Once a year I have real estate tax of a little over a thousand dollars. My time is all mine, I work at my own pace. I live life to the maximum under the circumstances, and when its time to die, I have no regrets about my choices. One thing I'll tell you, you won't find me in a hospital hooked up to wires and tubes, trying to squeeze out one more minute because I didn't ever get around to living. I'm living, here and now. Hard and fast. Well, as hard as I can without breaking out in a sweat.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

Well, to live TOTALLY off the farm. You would need to grow enough grain to feed the animals you would need to raise the meat, milk, eggs, butter, feathers for your mattress. You would need around 10 acres good hay. This would support your milk, cream, butter needs, and supply some feed to your rabbits, and in the winter birds, chickens ect and raise some baby calves for something to buy stuff you cannot raise or grow yourself. You would need another 10 acres hay to feed 4 good work horses or mules to farm your place with. It would take 3 on a sulkey, 4 on a gang plow if you ever wanted to get done spring plowing, plus their foals, not to mention a couple doz sheep and goats, both to supply meat and milk and young to sell or replace old stock, and sheep for wool for yourself to spin into clothes for yourself and to sell. You would need around at least 10 acres corn for all the animals that eat it and their needs and 10 again for oats for especially the work animals, but also for other animal feed mixes. You would need one old tractor with a pulley wheel to run buzz saw, hammermill, grinder, husker shredder, combine, bailer. You would need all the equipment to be able to put in these crops and harvest them. Not to mention equipment for the garden. 5 schovel, 2 handle spike harrow or equiv, lister, walking plow, You would need a windmill to keep up water for all the animals. Useing all the manure you can scrape together and spread, along with crop rotation should suffice for fertilizer. The sailable offspring, whould include say 500 chickens, a hundred turkeys 1/2 at thanksgiving and 1/2 at Christmas, 2 doz bottle or weined calves, a couple doz young goats, and sheep, at least 2 or 3 horse foals, ought to keep you in money enough to buy the things you cannot raise or grow yourself. Along with that, gas/oil/grease.

BUT, If you have a major accident with no insurance, either car or personal, or the engine or trans blows in any vehicle cancils that all out in an instant.

AND, as stated, youll need wind or something to make electricity. Think you dont need it. Try welding without it. Can be done, but who wants to do it that way. Try chargeing up a battery without it. Can be done, but who has the time. UNLESS you buy or make a treadmill or 4 horse turnstile thing I cant remember the name of it now to run a generator.

To sum it up, It can be done, But I dont think one man has enough time in a day to do it all.

Nah, Farmboybill I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said. Yes I am new to this forum but I am not new to homesteading. I don't use nor want horses...I don't cut any hay and I don't keep any milk animals for butter cream, milk or any of it. I keep chickens which I free range in summer and grow feed corn for them in winter ( they get some scraps too ). I am terribly lactose intolerant and I haven't had a milk product in over a decade. I live primarily on vegetables, chicken, eggs, fresh caught fish and the occasional deer. I till with a small tractor ( 50 hp ), which I use 5 or 6 times a year, do all the maintainence myself then I put it away and forget about it. You can't do that with a horse, and for my small needs, keeping the tractor is cheaper and easier in the long run then horses.

I don't need to spin my own clothes...the cost of the machinery, the time and expense of learning and the learning curve are all too costly when you consider that I can buy a new set of carharts every 5 years and new boots every two for a fraction of the cost of all that other stuff.

Remember, I'm not talking about doing every single thing myself...I'm talking about living on a near 20,000 dollar per year passive income while owning all my goods outright, growing my own food, chopping my own heat fuel and living frugally. 20,000 is as much as some people make with a full time job, and they have to buy everything and pay rent too.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by zong

I do just fine. I don't eat what I don't produce here. except the occasional trade out. I don't miss it either. I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything. I know where my food came from, its all natural all the time. my monthly expenses run $190 or so. 2 vehicles on the road, high speed internet, and cell phone are my luxuries. Electric is a necessity, far as I'm concerned. Built this house and it's paid for. Once a year I have real estate tax of a little over a thousand dollars. My time is all mine, I work at my own pace. I live life to the maximum under the circumstances, and when its time to die, I have no regrets about my choices. One thing I'll tell you, you won't find me in a hospital hooked up to wires and tubes, trying to squeeze out one more minute because I didn't ever get around to living. I'm living, here and now. Hard and fast. Well, as hard as I can without breaking out in a sweat.

Awesome! Thats what I am talking about.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by farmerj

1) Where did this $400K come from?

2) Where did the funds come from to pay for the homestead and all the tools for it?

I about went ballistic when I came home from an 11 month deployment. The financial plan we had prior to my leaving was basically tossed in the garbage. What should have been a nice start of $15K into a savings account was actually $15K in credit cards and revolving debt.

Can you do it? Yeah, I believe your numbers to be realistic. But getting there by age 40 is another thing. Especially if you have a partner.

I am just supposing with the 600,000...trying to narrow down an 'amount' that I think I would need to live full time at the homestead. I do own my place outright though, and my vehicles, etc..

My living expenses do come out to about 13,000 per year for the necessities and that includes fuel, propane, electric, some food, clothes, taxes and car insurance and maintenance.

[farmerj]

what kind of an income did you have to provide for buying said farmstead, paying it off to a clear deed AND save up half a million green in funds?

[FarmboyBill]

Well, OK, But you woulda saved me a buncha typing if you would have put down what you would live with/like, and what you wouldnt. I dont see how you can run a tractor 5 6 times a year and raise your own feed..
So your buying your clothes, your buying your gas/oil/grease/chain saw chains, and saws, your buying all the foodstuffs you cannot raise, salt pepper, dressing/salid oil, , not to mention nails, wire fencing, tools, car/tractor parts, ect ect. Thats all comeing outa somewhere.
NOW, Are you talking about homesteading without a job, and alla the money youll need already in the bank? wqell, heck yes you can do that.
Are you talking about homesteading and haveing to buy those purchases from whatever you can raise off the homestead. Heck no, unless u got a greenhouse fulla pot lol.

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

Well, OK, But you woulda saved me a buncha typing if you would have put down what you would live with/like, and what you wouldnt. I dont see how you can run a tractor 5 6 times a year and raise your own feed..
So your buying your clothes, your buying your gas/oil/grease/chain saw chains, and saws, your buying all the foodstuffs you cannot raise, salt pepper, dressing/salid oil, , not to mention nails, wire fencing, tools, car/tractor parts, ect ect. Thats all comeing outa somewhere.
NOW, Are you talking about homesteading without a job, and alla the money youll need already in the bank? wqell, heck yes you can do that.
Are you talking about homesteading and haveing to buy those purchases from whatever you can raise off the homestead. Heck no, unless u got a greenhouse fulla pot lol.

LOL no pot here! I'm talking about if you already had a sum in the bank. I do raise my food and only really use my tractor to till and cultivate a couple of times. I raised alot of potatoes this year, I did most of the hilling and cultivating with a hoe..only used the tractor to prep the ground. I did beans ( pole beans ) which again I only used the tractor for the initial till, then I did my work with a hoe...same with the corn. I spread my manure and fertilizer by hand, even made my rows by hand ( hoe and garden rake). I don't use any sprays and I harvested everything by hand except the potatoes which I used a potato plow. It always works out pretty good....of course I had the time to do it because I didn't have a outside job. This year it will be harder but I think I can still do it.

Like I said, I do have a part-time job now because I need it...but I was wondering how much I would need not to work outside at all.

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

well, heck yes you can do that.
Are you talking about homesteading and haveing to buy those purchases from whatever you can raise off the homestead. Heck no, unless u got a greenhouse fulla pot lol.

You left the "a-t-o-s" off of potatos, Bill.
Pretty nice day, I might have me some potatos here in a little bit.

Originally Posted by Darntootin

LOL no pot here! I'm talking about if you already had a sum in the bank. I do raise my food and only really use my tractor to till and cultivate a couple of times. I raised alot of potatoes this year, I did most of the hilling and cultivating with a hoe..only used the tractor to prep the ground. I did beans ( pole beans ) which again I only used the tractor for the initial till, then I did my work with a hoe...same with the corn. I spread my manure and fertilizer by hand, even made my rows by hand. I don't use any sprays and I harvested everything by hand except the potatoes which I used a potato plow. It always works out pretty good....of course I had the time to do it because I didn't have a outside job. This year it will be harder but I think I can still do it.

Like I said, I do have a part-time job now because I need it...but I was wondering how much I would need not to work outside at all.

Check out my video from a few years back, the lazy way to get potatoes. No digging....

YouTube

Incidentally, that video was taken 80 pounds ago...

[unregistered168043]

Originally Posted by zong

Check out my video from a few years back, the lazy way to get potatoes. No digging.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ympDCtKODA
Incidentally, that video was taken 80 pounds ago...

Nice! I like that method because I get sick of hoeing rows and I still have to dig even though I use the potato plow.