15 Years to Improve Your Bottom...What next?

fantasymaker · #1 10/01/11, 01:10 PM

Im thinking about renting 50 acres of bottom ground to the Government. Of course its low and floods but its pretty good corn and bean ground.
What would you do with 15 years to improve it?
I cant harvest anything off of it but I can use it.
Im thinking it would be a great time to establish the sorts of things that most people dont because it takes 10 to 15 years before the pay off.

tinknal · #2 10/01/11, 01:32 PM

I would put it in prairie plantings. Good upland bird habitat, and in drought years the government always lifts harvest restrictions on these lands and allows hay harvesting.

rambler · #3 10/01/11, 01:54 PM

I thought this was going to be a spam message about weight loss.....

CRP program, they typically have a list of things you can plant. They may offer a bonus program if you plant trees. Thweir thinking is once the trees get bigger, you won't feel like ripping it up again so they will get the wildlife habitat and not have to pay you in the future...

The drought harvesting requires you to repay some of the payment, so it's not going to be 'free' hay in dry times, but is a possibility.

I believe their thoughts are to use the property for hunting and that's about it, control the weeds and not much else to do with it. They are renting it for their 'needs'.

--->Paul

fantasymaker · #4 10/01/11, 06:15 PM

Id like to use this "free" time to improve the place as much as possable.

tinknal · #5 10/01/11, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

Id like to use this "free" time to improve the place as much as possable.

"Improvement" really is in the eye of the beholder. To some, it would be a strip mall, to others it would be a forest. What do you want?

Could you plant fruit trees and have a ready made orchard after 15 years?

Windy in Kansas · #6 10/01/11, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

"Improvement" really is in the eye of the beholder. To some, it would be a strip mall, to others it would be a forest. What do you want?

Could you plant fruit trees and have a ready made orchard after 15 years?

The problem with fruit is that the trees would yield sooner and you couldn't harvest from them. Even picking and hauling to compost might be considered harvesting in the eyes of the government.

Capt Quirk · #7 10/01/11, 08:43 PM

Sounds like a good place for a hunting lease. It won't make it prettier, but will at least provide some income.

Sawmill Jim · #8 10/01/11, 08:48 PM

Here rough ground is renting for a hundred an acre cash in advance

I don't like anything gov plus you got to mow it some too .

tinknal · #9 10/01/11, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

The problem with fruit is that the trees would yield sooner and you couldn't harvest from them. Even picking and hauling to compost might be considered harvesting in the eyes of the government.

Doesn't really matter. You are not going to be harvesting anything anyway, you can always get away with picking enough to meet your own needs, it will draw venison like crazy, and at the end of the 15 years you will have a ready made income source.

VERN in IL · #10 10/01/11, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

Here rough ground is renting for a hundred an acre cash in advance

I don't like anything gov plus you got to mow it some too .

Bush hog it twice a year. Fruit trees in bottom grounds? (are you friggin crazy?) Best use of bottom grounds is to mow it twice a year, hunt it, and make ATV paths through it.

Or attempt to plant something and when it does flood, let the farm insurance kick in.

With bottom lands I've seen many farmers do stupid things, like leaving the implements in the field when it floods....10 ft from the road and 2 foot of water, not so much mind the tractor, but the seed drill's bearings are all submerged!

Rusty'sDog · #11 10/01/11, 11:58 PM

I don't know what the gov limits are for planting, but I would be thinking of running a bunch of hogs on it every year from spring to autumn...let them harvest it for you!

Plant orange osage or black locust trees. Reap tons of high BTU fuel wood each year. "I'm not harvesting, just pruning."

VERN in IL · #12 10/02/11, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty'sDog

I don't know what the gov limits are for planting, but I would be thinking of running a bunch of hogs on it every year from spring to autumn...let them harvest it for you!

Plant orange osage or black locust trees. Reap tons of high BTU fuel wood each year. "I'm not harvesting, just pruning."

Black locust? You talking about thorn trees? Hate those things. BTW I have *never* seen anyone run a bunch of hogs on ground, it does not happen anymore. there is like one to ten "open" hog operations in the entire county, and they are VERY small operations.(less than ten head) I don't think that ideal would work with the *contracted* large shed operations.

rambler · #13 10/02/11, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty'sDog

I don't know what the gov limits are for planting, but I would be thinking of running a bunch of hogs on it every year from spring to autumn...let them harvest it for you!

Plant orange osage or black locust trees. Reap tons of high BTU fuel wood each year. "I'm not harvesting, just pruning."

He didn't mention the exact program he's in, but in general all such stuff is harveting the land, no way, no how, fines are very large and the govt _should_ and _does_ enforce these rules.

The govt is renting the property to provide wildlife habitat and make people in cities feel good about all the green space we now have.....

You don't really get to do anything with it, it's not yours for 15 years. the govt has leased it.

So I'm not really understanding the question to begin with. What you do for the next 15 years is follow the rules of your contract - typically keep the weeds down, and only use you can get from the land is hunting types of activities. You don't get to run a crop or livestock or otherwise work the ground for any of your needs & wants.

Follow the contract you signed, and in 15 years you probably will re-up the land into another contract, collect your money, and not work or use the land again....

--->Paul

SueMc · #14 10/02/11, 01:27 PM

When we bought our land, thirteen of the 35 acres were contracted in grass CRP. It's up in 2013 and we're not renewing. The rules are that since ours is a grass contract (not the exact wording) trees cannot be planted on it. Forest CRP is a different type of contract. We're also not supposed to have a drive/lane through the land or fence around it. We also cannot mow it until after Aug 1st. When we first bought the land it hadn't been mowed for a year or two so we were told that we could mow very early in the year to knock down the weeds.
We were told that we could plant wildlife food plots.
We did have a large pond dug this summer, mostly on the CRP area. We got permission for that without penalty because the pond is considered an enhancement.
Since we originally thought that we would like to build a house on part of the CRP property we asked about buying the contract out. We were told that can only be done if you pay back the entire contract plus interest and penalties. Needless to say we'll wait until 2013 or build on the non-CRP part.
I would really think about what you want out of this kind of contract and read the fine print. Depending on what type of CRP contract you decide on will dictate what you can and can't do with it. If you think there is any possibility that you want much out of the land other than a yearly check you might want to reconsider.
We would have really hesitated purchasing this property had the contract had 10 yrs left rather than 3-4. When our contract is up we plan on keeping alot of it in native prairie growth because we love having the baby pheasants and turkeys running around (not so much the herds of deer).
We can just do that without being under the dictates of a government contract.

tinknal · #15 10/02/11, 01:42 PM

15 years is about right for pole sized tamarack. Should grow well on low ground.

Michael W. Smith · #16 10/02/11, 01:47 PM

15 years is a looooooooooooooong time!
I've looked into the programs - but they all seem to have too many "not allowed to . . . ." in it. You "own" the land, but since it's rented to the government, you can't really "do anything" with it.
That's why I own land out in the country - I want to be able to do WHATEVER I want (within reason) to my own land WHEN I want!! I didn't buy it so I could rent it out and then have "strings" attached telling me what I can and can't do.

fantasymaker · #17 10/06/11, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

So I'm not really understanding the question to begin with. What you do for the next 15 years is follow the rules of your contract - typically keep the weeds down, and only use you can get from the land is hunting types of activities. You don't get to run a crop or livestock or otherwise work the ground for any of your needs & wants.

--->Paul

THATS why Im asking NOW.
I can do a lot of things on the land IF i write them into the contract NOW.
While for the most part I cant HARVEST a crop I can PLANT a lot of things.

While it is a bottom and subject to floods they tend to go away pretty fast, Ive never drowned a corn crop.
There are a lot of trees growing in the bottoms here, I do think i could raise fruit trees.

RebelDigger · #18 10/07/11, 01:06 PM

Maybe my tin foil hat is too tight today but, there is no way I would rent so much as a blade of grass on my land to the government and give them a foot in my door.

If the land is capable of growing a corn crop, why not grow that and sell it if you want a bit of income off that acerage? Bottom land here is the good crop land. Can you grow cotton there (probably not that far North)? Or soy beans. All of these are grown around here in the river bottoms. I don't think fruit trees would do well in that type of situation but if you want fruit, you could also put in one heck of a nice blackberry thicket on part of it, blackberries love wet feet (I have a thicket here which grows in a low spot that stays pretty wet, halfway down the ridge).

fantasymaker · #19 10/14/11, 10:39 AM

Because the government is offering me a LOT more than I can make in crops......its a weird abberation that just happens to work to my benifit.

Darren · #20 10/14/11, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

Because the government is offering me a LOT more than I can make in crops......its a weird abberation that just happens to work to my benifit.

If it floods that rules out fruit trees. They'll proably die or at best not grow well. Since you can mow it, I would consider cover cropping with something that will improve the soil. The USDA publishs a large softcover book on cover crops that is the source for that info in one place. You'll need to check the rules to see if cover cropping without harvesting is allowed.