Suggestions on making 40 acres self-sufficient

[nancylee]

Hi all,
My husband and I have 40 acres, with a small house that is 15 years old and a big garage/barn and another cottage he just built. The land is mostly wooded, pines, as it was logged by a previous owner about 20 years ago. We have about 1/4 acre open, around the house. There are areas that get swampy in the spring when it rains heavily, and an area way in the back that stays swampy in the summer even, but it is really swampy, maybe a few feet deep. I would love to be able to be somewhat self-sufficient here, but there are a few problems. I live in zone 4, and we have the rockiest soil ever!! We just dug out for a little pond near the house so that the birds, and insects and frogs, etc. have water and we got a huge pile of rocks from a 10X12X4 foot hole!!!

Questions:

How much land does one need to be able to grow a lot of food for 4 people in zone 4? It has to be quick growing food. We had a frost the past two nights, most crops are done for the year.

How practical is it to dig a pond big enough that it can stay clean? Is it incredibly expensive??

Can any money be made from goat milk, soap and goat fiber? How about sheep fiber?? I don't spin, but would love to learn!!

How practical is it to set up solar panels and how expensive is it if you can do a lot of the work yourself??

Any else I might have missed, please feel free to add. I would love to quit my job, and my husband is retired. He is healthy, thank goodness, and very handy, a great carpenter, mechanic, etc.

Thanks much!!
Nancy

[johncotexas]

Wow, where to begin?....

#1 Done well, with proper soil that will grow food, you can grow all the food you need for the four you mention on far less than an acre. And that is anywhere in the U.S. regardless of zone. The key is having good soil and having everything planned out so you know when to plant and harvest for your best yields.

#2 A pond will stay clean regardless of its size if the chemistry within the pond is stable. If you design the pond using the correct selection and ratio of plants, and fish, the pond will be somewhat self sufficient.

#3 Goats are a great money maker if you know how to utilize their products and even more important, know how to market them.

#4 Solar is practical if you have the money to spend and the time to invest in recouping that investment. Depending on your needs and how much "grid" you are wanting to replace the cost will vary greatly. If you still want to run your 54" flat screen and your electric dryer and the microwave, stove, etc., you will need a HUGE investment. If you are living by three 40 watt bulbs and cooking with a wood stove and can lose the t.v. and other electric suckers, you will need less.

I have found that for most people, quitting the job and becoming completely self sufficient and off-grid is a dream that gets adjusted to varying degrees as need overcomes desire.
This is not to say that it is not possible, but without a large surplus of money, it will usually take much longer to attain than most people forecast for themselves.
I would recommend doing lots of research, asking lots of questions(like you have here), and to slow down and not feel like it has to happen tomorrow.
Do some research on Permaculture and you will learn so much that will help in your desire to improve and live with the land.

p.s. having a mechanically inclined person around is one of the greatest assets a homestead can have so you are already one up on most.

[Terri]

Since your husband is retired, you folks have SOME money coming in. This is a big plus, as the tax man insists on cash and so does the gas station!

Perhaps, instead of earning more, you could need less? Also, if you needed less but still more than your husbands retirement, perhaps you could move to part time?

Let's see: hunting for meat. To improve hunting some people will put in corn, leave it unharvested, and hunt in the corn.

You say you have 2 houses? Will you be renting one out?

My husbands aunt had a wood burning stove AND electical heat: they would put in a fire in the evening and if the wood buring stove did not heat the house well enough the electic heat would come on. In that way the wood burning stove reduced the need for electricity by a very large amount

That is all that I can think of for now. Perhaps I will think of more later.

[nancylee]

Hi,
Thank you, both, for your suggestions, and further questions to get us started here. Our soil will need lots of work, I started on it this summer, but it is so slow!! The only thing that grew really well were my tomatoes. Everything else just sulked - broccoli, squash, parsley, basil. So there is lots of work to be done there.

We will rent a house out, starting next September, so there will some income there, plus the retirement. I will work part-time at something if I take the plunge and stop full-time work. I am a hard worker, I do make quilts and pottery, but I don't have the equipment at home to do either professionally. I am learning rug hooking, also.

I don't watch TV, my husband watches a little, so we can cancel that and watch netflix on the computer if we want to watch something. I need my computer, I used to sell antiques on ebay and my own website, I might try that again a bit.

I will cancel our expensive cell phones since I won't be out at work, and if my older kids want a phone, they work during summers off from college, they can pay for it. We have paid for too many phones for too long. It is worse than a mortgage payment!! (and they have some aid and student loans. We paid for the first few years, they need to have some skin in the game)

I traded in an X-terra, which got horrible gas mileage, for a Honda Fit, which is fine for me and gets awesome mileage. My husband has an older Silverado for the heavy work, and we have a Honda Element. The older cars are paid for, so one car payment, which isn't too bad.

I have to get my husband to get rid of some of his toys. He has a motorcycle and an ATV. The ATV has a plow on it, so maybe we can make some $$$ plowing out neighbors in the winter.

Last winter, we never used the oil for heat - we heated by wood all winter. It was really great to do that. We do use propane for the stove and oil for hot water. I was looking into solar heaters for the water, but didn't understand them. I have to get my husband to look at them.

I am a vegetarian, my husband eats meat. Lots of people around us hunt deer, I know we could get one or two. How many do you need for three meat eaters?? I don't know any of this!!!

I haven't been shopping for anything except fabrics for my quilts. I got a lot of nice clothes for my job at the local ministry. I brought in a bunch of my kids' clothes, many with tags since they didn't use them, and I got some things for myself. It was free, and I felt guilty getting things, so I made sure to bring in enough stuff for exchange.

I think that is all I can remember right now about where we are and where we want to be. Thank you for the help!!
nancy

[ErinP]

You say Zone 4, but is that a Zone 4 in western Nebraska (very low rainfall) or central Wisconsin (a lot more moisture)?
Things like composting and soil conservation will make a difference no matter where you're at, but rainfall will make a bigger difference...

[Danaus29]

The key to growing your own food in zone 4 is to learn to eat crops that grow well in zone 4. There are several good books about season extensions and what crops grow well in colder zones.

I personally would start clearing out the pine trees around the house and in the dry areas where you have good soil. Plant berries and nuts that will survive and produce well in your area. If you get goats let them have the rocky poor soil areas. Remove rocks and build up the soil starting in small beds first. Expand as you get the time.

ETA, you could get some chickens or ducks to help with insect problems and give you eggs.

[Callieslamb]

I'd think about clearing off some land so you will have more space for a garden and pasturing animals - though goats and some sheep will eat the trees and brush too. Then I'd work on the drainage issue - at least the seepage close to the house. If you have the funding, you might consider raised beds and buy soil to fill them with. Then your garden space will be ready and you can simply enrich the soil with goat manure and compost.

I can't help you with the deer. But sheep and goats often have too many male babies that can be rather tasty.

I too am just getting started on the road to self sufficiency. I got chickens first thing. They make wonderful compost for the garden. I have soil that is pure sand so a mix of chicken compost and sand should produce a decent garden next year. I ordered straight run so it's time to send most of the roosters to freezer camp. The roosters and maybe a deer and I have meat for the winter. Eggs can be sold to make a small amount of money. In the future the extra eggs can go to the pig.

Don't try to do everything at once. There is a learning curve with these activities. Just add a few new activities a year and before you know it you will be close to self sufficient.

I am not striving for self sufficiency. I want to be able to do the things that could make me self sufficient so I can be, if necessary. I think being self sufficient requires a lower standard of living and I don't want to go there yet.

[nancylee]

HI,
I appreciate the ideas. I do think we need more land open, just a bit perhaps. I ordered some soil this year, but it still wasn't good for growing. It needs a lot of help. I don't have any worms at all in my soils.

I don't eat meat, and my husband and kids are not huge meat eaters, so the meat part is not a big issue for us. I would eat fish if they came from my own pond and I knew they had a happy life, swimming around the pond for most of their lives. We all do what we can live with, right?

I agree that maybe I don't want to be totally self-sufficient, as I don't really want to give up toilet paper and such, but I would like to make a move in that direction. Your ideas are very helpful. Thank you so much,
Nancy

[Qhorseman]

You can't build good soil in one year. Keep ammending with compost. It will get better and better as time passes. The worms will show up

[edcopp]

Start with one forth of one acre, now.

[FarmboyBill]

I would say, myself, an acre a year at least. Thatll keep the varments a bit further away rather than leaning on a tree by the chicken house waiting for their next meal. If its all as rocky as you say, then I can see little reason in clearing it with the idea of farming it. You might make some money selling firewood, which would be a profitable exit for all the wood you say you have. You might look at the U tube, (Worlds fastest splitter). Sounds like you could make some pasture on the rockiest of it after it was sufficently cleared, and some hay ground on the less rocky. My hay meadow was made outa rocky ground. We hauled out, and pulled out rock, and that we couldnt do either on, I took wedges and sledges and log splitter, the kind with a handle and shaved or chunked out the rock at surface level. That way, you could raise a few cows/calves/goats. You might take that rock and learn to make rock walls, and use them to build above the ground (and above the surface rock) garden. Hogs work VERY well in losening rock in a givin area, that being where you throw their corn on the ground.

[motdaugrnds]

You're getting good ideas from these posters...not unusual for this Homesteading Forum.

I would add what I recently learned from another HT person, i.e. you can make "raised beds" for gardening by using the trees (trunks/limbs/leaves) from that part of your forestry you decide to cut. If the place were mine, I would dig out several areas where I wanted my garden to be (say 4' x 25' in size) and as deep as I wanted. I would use all those rocks your land gives you as a "border" to each bed. Then I would pile tree trunks (not cedar or black walnuts) and limbs and leaves into the holes. This would be the beginning of my raised beds. Add soil and compost from whatever you have on the place year after year; and in time, you will have what no one else on all that rocky land around you has...a great garden!

As for self-sufficiency, remember to get your fruit trees/bushes in the ground early (with appropriate protections against wild life predators). Get a good "Edible Wild Life" book for your area and learn what you have growing naturally on your 40 acres that you can make use of for food and/or medicines. Discover which of your trees can be tapped for syrup and get that taken care of. [A large part to becoming self-sufficient is knowing what you have and making use of it.]

Do take pictures and let us know how things are progressing.

[hiddensprings]

We raise dairy goats and used to have some fiber goats. You can make money with goat's milk soap, lotions, and depending on your state requlations, selling milk and/or cheese. I strictly sell soaps and lotions because of my states rules, but I do well on my soap sales.
Fiber animals can bring in money as well. The price of the fiber is primarily determined by how you sell the fiber. If you sell raw fiber, that is, right off the goat, you get a longer price. If you have the fiber washed and carded into rowing, you get a much better price. And if you sell yarn, even a better price. Of course, the processing is not free.
Definitely get some chickens. Eggs, meat, fertilizer....they are an awesome addtion to any homestead plus easy to raise. I sell my eggs at a local farmer's market for $4.00 and sell out every week.
My suggestion would be to start slow, do your research, and above all, enjoy your land!

[ccfromnc]

If you want to learn more about goats before you take the plunge, be sure to visit the HT Goats forum... Lots of good info there. Here are some other sites I found helpful in making the decision of which type of goats to buy and how to care for them. I ended up getting Nigerian dwarf milking goats and couldn't be happier with them.

http://fiascofarm.com/

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goats/

http://www.adga.org/

[ronbre]

i also live in zone 4 and your best bet for food crops is to put in fruit trees and bushes and nut trees as well as perennial food crops. There are a lot of them that will grow in our area so do a search (check out www.permies.com there are some threads there for perennial foods)

if you have some clay in your soil you should be able to do a pond, you will probably need some heavy equipment which you can rent...we have a pond in our zone 4 property

see my blog in my signature for a list of the food crops we grow here..

where are you in zone 4, if you are in Michigan I could give you some starts of things like jerusalem artichokes..etc.

[nancylee]

Hi everyone,
You are all wonderful!! Thank you for all of your help and suggestions!! I am writing them all down, and going to review them with my husband, who isn't as into this idea as I am!!
Nancy

[Maura]

Your pond is going to freeze solid. It needs to be deeper if you expect fish to survive the winter. Look up lasagne gardening. This is a style of raised bed gardening and one which you can create with your goat manure as well as kitchen scraps. Using covers on your garden works wonders. We have a hoop style green house (plants in the ground) and it extends the tomatoes into snow time as well as any not too delicate greens. We can also get in there early and start the garden.

You can grow potatoes by hilling them up instead of digging a trench in your rocky soil.

[nancylee]

Thank you Maura!! I wasn't going to put fish into this small pond, I just hoped it would attract some wildlife. I want to build a big pond, maybe an acre, and make it about 10 feet with fish in there hopefully.

I will look up lasagne gardening and I have been wanting to get a greenhouse or those hoops. Do you use PVC piping? Thanks,
Nancy

[Danaus29]

Fish are essential for proper pond maintenance, after the first 2 -3 years. Don't try to add any the first year.

You would need to have part of the pond somewhere between 20 and 30 feet deep in order to have fish survive over the winter or you will have to install a bubbler to keep part of the pond from freezing.