Some hunters should be whacked alongside the head!

dbarjacres · #1 09/15/11, 04:24 PM

My husband is out bear hunting. He came home pretty mad last night. He had FIVE bears at his bait, about 40 feet away from his tree stand, late evening and three were cubs who's mama musta got shot. They were just little 45-50 lb babies! It specifically says in the rules that one can NOT shoot a sow with nursing babies (and that you must shoot an "adult who measures over 42"). It'll be a miracle if those little guys make it thru winter. He's assuming the guys who run dogs on bear shot the sow, we've never had those little guys on the game cam, makes me want to keep feeding them till denning time.

FYI, the other 2 were yearlings, so DH is waiting for the big guy to show up. He said it was really neat watching the bears interact and eat their bait. In WI, you only get kill tags every 7 years approx. This is his 4th one.

Bearfootfarm · #2 09/15/11, 05:50 PM

Why assume she was shot?

Ed Norman · #3 09/15/11, 06:00 PM

She got hit by a truck
She died of old age
She got killed by wolves
She was busy elsewhere
She got killed fighting a big boar
She was killed by unethical hunters using hounds

Really? There is only one answer with zero evidence?

ronbre · #4 09/15/11, 06:37 PM

heard the other day a man had to shoot a mama with babies, cause she was attemting to eat his leg..sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

OkieDavid · #5 09/15/11, 06:43 PM

I really dislike people who automaticaly assume that unethical hunters are to blame for any abandoned baby in the forest.......

dbarjacres · #6 09/15/11, 09:15 PM

Well I happen to personally know a group of dog hunters in that area and when "training" dogs, they let them tree a bear and will shoot it and let the dogs kill it to "train" them. Then they leave and waste the bear to get the heck out of there before the DNR comes. My FIL was there when they did that, he never hunted with them again. These guys also live in my neighborhood and shoot anything they want off the road on any property. I hunt, DH hunts, step dad hunts, FIL hunts, but we follow the rules. I'm not bashing hunters. And yes I called the cops on these guys when they were shooting off the road down our property line and as the dumb dispatcher said over the radio to the cop who called (all the hunters have marine radios in their trucks so they know where the cops are at), we then got threats and they tried to run me off the road a few times.

We've been baiting there for 2 months and have had the game cam up. There are 2 yearling size bears and a medium bear and a big bear. So exactly 8 days after they started running dogs on bear to tag (1 week before sitters could start) 3 cubs show up, in the middle of a BIG national forest where there are no vehicles to hit mom.

Ed Norman · #7 09/15/11, 09:20 PM

So you still have zero proof. You have a theory, and you have suspects. But no proof.

SpaceCadet12364 · #8 09/15/11, 09:20 PM

You might want to say something to DNR....maybe they might trap the babies and take them somewhere to where they might have a better chance of making it through the winter?

Shygal · #9 09/15/11, 09:39 PM

I didn't know it was legal to put out bait for deer or bear , kind of defeats the purpose of "hunting" doesn't it?

Silvaticus · #10 09/15/11, 09:48 PM

I'm going to preface this by saying that I am a lifetime member of my local rod and gun club, I hunt, and my entire family hunts. Given the facts that dbarjacres has, I would have come to the same conclusion she did. I believe she has good reason to believe that the mama of those cubs was killed illegally and unethically. I believe that she like me is angry at the bad name that "hunters" like the ones her FIL knows give to the rest of us who hunt legally and ethically.

Silvaticus · #11 09/15/11, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

I didn't know it was legal to put out bait for deer or bear , kind of defeats the purpose of "hunting" doesn't it?

It isn't in NY, but is in a lot of other places.

dbarjacres · #12 09/15/11, 09:52 PM

Shygal, yep most people bait bear, some "sit" by the bait and wait for the bear (there isn't enuf bear just to wander onto one in the woods when you need one) or they bait and they have the hounds run the bear. The regulations are VERY strict in WI on what you can bait with and what you can put it in.

Deer baiting is frowned upon many places in WI. Some people "feed the squirrels" and the deer "accidently" eat it.

nancy237 · #13 09/15/11, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

I didn't know it was legal to put out bait for deer or bear , kind of defeats the purpose of "hunting" doesn't it?

I agree..legal or not, it just seems wrong

nancy237 · #14 09/15/11, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbarjacres

(there isn't enuf bear just to wander onto one in the woods when you need one) .

Too much work for a lazy hunter who needs immediate gratification .. A hunter would actually have to learn to track and have a skill and take his time.

Baiting them seems about as sportsmanlike as the big game hunters who pay a guide to take them out to a "big game animal" . The hunter jumps out of the jeep and shoots the animal & gets a trophy & picture..WOW

Bearfootfarm · #15 09/15/11, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Given the facts that dbarjacres has

The only "facts" are he saw some young bears he hadn't seen before, so it's not known where they came from or how long they have been alone

They could very well be old enough to have left their mother naturally

http://www.americanbear.org/faq.htm

Quote:

How long do cubs stay with their mothers?

Cubs stay with their mother for 1 1/2 years. The family bond is very strong. The mother bear is affectionate, strict, protective and devoted to her cubs. Her primary concern is for their safety and education.

Quote:

How large is a black bear's home range?

The size of the home range varies depending upon the abundance of food. In an area with lots of berry and nut producing plants a territory will be smaller than in an area with scarce food supplies. Yearling females often share the territory of their mothers, but young males may travel far to find their own territories. In Minnesota, a sow's home range is 2-6 square miles

Quote:

How much do black bears weigh?

Cubs weigh only 8-12 ounces at birth and are covered with fine, downy hair. Cubs that weigh 5 pounds or more when they leave the den in the spring have the greatest chance of survival. Adult males and females fluctuate in weight over the course of the year.

Adult males can weigh 150-600 pounds, while females with cubs can weigh 90-300 pounds. Pregnant females lose about 35% of their weight during the winter, while males and females without cubs lose about 30% of their weight.

Paquebot · #16 09/15/11, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nancy237

Too much work for a lazy hunter who needs immediate gratification .. A hunter would actually have to learn to track and have a skill and take his time.

When it comes to bear, I would much prefer having the bear come to me rather than me coming to the bear!

Having the game come to the hunter has been an accepted methods for thousands of years. There's evidence of ancient hunters using decoys to bring ducks and geese into range of their weapons. Same applies today and includes life-like turkey decoys. Since it's always been an accepted practice for one form of game, it's hypocritical to say that it should not apply to another.

Martin

TedH71 · #17 09/15/11, 10:19 PM

Those hunters are morons if they think shooting a bear down and letting the dogs wool on it (killing a bear..they can't as a general rule) will make the dogs want to hunt the bears more! It's bred into the dogs. Either they have it or they don't. Bear meat is good from what I've been told. I think you have it backwards, they're allowed to SHOOT the bear to get the bear out of the tree and yes, the bear may go down fighting and believe me, they know how to fight.

lonelytree · #18 09/15/11, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nancy237

I agree..legal or not, it just seems wrong

If you haven't hunted bear. So really, you have an uninformed opinion.

Foxy · #19 09/15/11, 11:29 PM

One of those 'yearlings' could have been a sow. I've bear hunted in WI and Canada for close to 30 years and have seen many small sows with cubs. If the hound hunters did shoot the sow it may have been a mistake...hounds may have run the sow away from the cubs and they didn't see them. This is one of the reasons I prefer sitting a bait.

TedH71...In WI you can train hounds in the summer and tree a bear, but are not allowed to shoot them.

Pops2 · #20 09/16/11, 12:14 AM

first, the people you're dealing with are NOT hunters, by definition they ARE POACHERS.

second in places w/ a strong dogging culture the doggers themselves will usually clean house. when i hunted in eastern NC the guys i ran dogs with were a 300 club (against the rules of the club to kill anything under 300#) they did this to keep from killing sows. they had a bunch of pics & video of bears up a tree from their catch & release hunting. second the same group used "social pressure" to make a bunch of sow killing nimrods give up dogging.
in my personal experience, i found deer shooter's to be the most common killer of small bears. in fact the bear hunter's association (run by doggers) considers it such a problem they have repeatedly lobbied the WRC to raise the minimum weight limit from 50# to 100#.