Opinions on heating options

[4nTN]

Right now I have a heat pump and a plate steel woodstove that my husband made (he`s a machinist/welder).For now it`s just myself and my 10 year old son.I`m a little leery of the woodstove because one year we had a chimney fire.We were able to put it out because my husband climbed on the roof and threw snow down the chimney.I can`t get on the roof(it`s metal).

I am trying to decide between those propane fireplaces with the fake logs or the outdoor woodburning furnace.The propane logs burn when the electricity is out and the outdoor furnace won`t blow into the house when you have no power.They both heat about 1,200 SqF (the size I am thinking about) and they both cost the same upfront.Of course I don`t know how long the propane would last and wood would be free or almost free.Is propane affordable?

I would also like to be ready for a SHTF senario or even just a natural disaster.Like I said it`s just myself and my young son.We had a blizzard here in 96 that knocked out the power for 11 days,and we had to hike over lines and trees to get to the little market two miles away.

I also have a monitor heater I`m not using right now.It uses kerosene and I have a tank that holds 300 gallons.But kerosene has gotten so expensive that I took the monitor out.
Thanks for any opinions.

Sharon

[Jennifer L.]

You shouldn't have a chimney fire if you have a good set up with your wood stove.

I would not tie myself to outside sources of power if I didn't have to, mainly because it's an expense you don't need. Prices are only going to go up and may not always be available. If you have wood on your property or it's available locally, I would keep that wood stove.

Get someone knowledgable who can look over your stove and chimney and see what they say.

Jennifer

[4nTN]

several guys that have used wood stoves all their lives have asked my husband to build one for them.It`s thick double walled plate steel with a blower.
The fire happened because my grown kids were staying here while my husband and I were away for two weeks.They(my kids) used the wood stove but only kept a slow burning fire.That morning I came home and it was chilly in the house so I opened the damper wide to get a hot fire burning,about 20 minutes later I notice the pipe is red hot and crackling like crazy!Thats when I yelled to hubby and he climbed up on the roof.
Logically I know if I burn a hot fire once a day it won`t happen again.Since we had the fire we clean the chimney whenever weather allows in the winter.Although a lot of people say that`s not really neccesary.They say once a season should be sufficent.
The chimney construction is good.triple wall stainless to the top and a safety fire box between the ceiling and roof.
The truth is I`m afraid of it.Everytime the stovepipe crackles it makes me very nervous.That fire scared my son and I a lot!

[Harry Chickpea]

Chimney fires will do that. Lets sit back and reason things out a bit. Neither of your two options are particularly cost efficient.

Propane fireplaces are for looks and only incidentally for heat. An unvented or vented propane wall heater is far more efficient. Outdoor furnaces prevent tracking in wood dirt, bugs, etc., but the comparisons I have seen indicate that they use between 150% and 200% of the wood that an indoor sealed wood stove uses.

Your core issue is not that you don't trust your stove, but that you don't trust the chimney not to have another fire and burn the house down. I won't go into insurance, because I can just about guarantee that no insurance company will pay out on a fire caused in any way by a homemade stove. It ain't right, but that is life.

How do we reduce that fear?

I've mentioned that I keep a filled garden sprayer near our fireplace in case of a chimney fire. A fine spray of water flashing into steam can cool things down quickly. Just stay well clear, because steam can kill you painfully.

If you look in old magazines, you can find systems where a pulley, chain, and bag of rocks can be over a chimney, so that chimney cleaning is something done easily from the ground. That is a bit Rube Goldberg, but possible.

There is also the possibility of what is called a "dry" sprinkler system, which can be automatic or manual. In its simplest form, an iron or copper pipe runs tight to your triple wall chimney pipe to keep it warm. The top has a metal halo of pipe BRAZED to it, with holes drilled in the inner side of the halo. This halo is slightly above the chimney, BUT NOT IN THE PATH OF THE SMOKE. The bottom of the riser pipe is connected to a valve and your water supply. If you sense a chimney fire, you open the valve, water rises through the pipe to the top of the chimney, into the halo surrounding it, and then into the drilled holes which create continuous sprays of water aimed into the chimney from all angles. When the fire is out, you turn off the water and drain the pipe. Use of a fusable link above the chimney can make the whole thing automatic.

Not to alarm you, but if you had a chimney fire, your husband needs to closely inspect that pipe for damage. It may be a good idea to replace it if the fire lasted for any significant length of time.

[4nTN]

The dry sprinkler system sounds ingenious.I`ll google that.Right now keeping a garden sprayer close will make me feel a little better.
I have the creosote logs,powders but I don`t know how well they work.I also have a fire extinguisher close by and smoke alarms and a pipe themometer a ladder ready that reaches up to the cap...lol....give me a break I grew up in Miami and Hawaii.I Love/Hate this woodstove.
About the outside wood burning system,I don`t really care about how much wood I burn.There is such an abundance here.My problem with it is that it won`t operate without power.
Also we did replace the inside pipes because the one at the ceiling was damaged; flames were coming OUT and licking the ceiling!!!Hubby says that was not possible,but I hate to tell him!

[Harry Chickpea]

I doubt you'll find that iteration of a dry sprinkler system. Thank you for calling me ingenious. I tend to agree with that.

There are dry sprinklers for commercial buildings, they use a small compressor to keep a membrane intact by back pressure. That prevents corrosion and other problems in the system. What I just threw together for you is something I just visualized off the cuff.

[homstdr74]

We have fire extinguishers sitting by each of our stoves. We also have several boxes of baking soda on hand---we, too, have had chimney fires and are very, very wary of them. If your chimney starts acting up again, you can smother that chimney fire if you open the firebox and fling in handfuls of baking soda directly on the fire; the danger to doing that is you are adding oxygen and that isn't good. However, as the baking soda burns you get clouds of CO2 steam going up the chimney, so that when you shut the door you have hopefully starved the fire of its necessary oxygen. Just a thought.

[ronbre]

we have an outdoor wood boiler and heat exchangers in the house along with our previous propane furnace and fireplace..

we have a generator to provide the pump for the furnace if the power goes out, but you are right you would need to use a generator with fans or buy battery operated fans to move the air with a power outage..ryobi has some great battery operated fans with their plus one tool sets

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by 4nTN

... I`m a little leery of the woodstove because one year we had a chimney fire.We were able to put it out because my husband climbed on the roof and threw snow down the chimney.I can`t get on the roof(it`s metal).

You have a metal stove-pipe, going up through a metal roof.

Over the course of a heating season, if you burn green wood [unseasoned] then it may build up creosote inside the stove pipe. [We do this too.]

You do have an option of one day, mid-season, dropping the stove-pipe and cleaning it. Or else the creosote inside it may catch on fire.

The stove-pipe is metal, it can not burn.

The roof is metal, it can not burn.

The ground outside is usually covered with snow by then, so that any embers going up into the sky can not catch any thing on fire outside. Snow does not burn well.



If there is any combustible material within 3 foot of the stove-pipe, it may present a fire hazard.

They used to say to never have any combustible material near the stove-pipe. Because after many hours of being hot that combustible material may catch on fire.

So we do not allow any combustible material near the stove or stove-pipe.

Now, we have had chimney fires.

The danger of having a chimney fire is if you have something that is combustible within 3 foot of the stove-pipe. I do not have anything combustible within 3 foot of our stove-pipe.

Many people freak-out over chimney fires. Generally they all put combustible junk near their stove-pipe. So they naturally get worried about that junk catching on fire. I do not have anything combustible within 3 foot of our stove-pipe.

My advise is: never have any combustible material near the stove-pipe.

[Ozarks Tom]

Sounds like you have a great stove, and you need an effective way to stop a chimney fire is necessary. Obviously, two things necessary for a fire are fuel and (lots of) oxygen. Since the fuel is creosote in the chimney the answer is to stop airflow into the chimney. I wonder if your husband could rig an airtight damper at the base of the chimney. It might get a little smokey in the house until the damper can be safely opened again, but it should only take a couple minutes. I stopped my fire with a wet blanket over the front of the fireplace. It took about a minute for the fire to die down, but I took the blanket away too soon and it started again. After about 2 more minutes I took the blanket away and the fire stayed out.

[4nTN]

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

I doubt you'll find that iteration of a dry sprinkler system. Thank you for calling me ingenious. I tend to agree with that.

There are dry sprinklers for commercial buildings, they use a small compressor to keep a membrane intact by back pressure. That prevents corrosion and other problems in the system. What I just threw together for you is something I just visualized off the cuff.

ahh,well I wouldn`t be able to put something like that together.You should market it.
I will use your idea Of keeping the garden sprayer nearby though.

[4nTN]

Originally Posted by homstdr74

We have fire extinguishers sitting by each of our stoves. We also have several boxes of baking soda on hand---we, too, have had chimney fires and are very, very wary of them. If your chimney starts acting up again, you can smother that chimney fire if you open the firebox and fling in handfuls of baking soda directly on the fire; the danger to doing that is you are adding oxygen and that isn't good. However, as the baking soda burns you get clouds of CO2 steam going up the chimney, so that when you shut the door you have hopefully starved the fire of its necessary oxygen. Just a thought.

Thanks,I`ll add baking soad to my arsenal.

[4nTN]

Originally Posted by ronbre

we have an outdoor wood boiler and heat exchangers in the house along with our previous propane furnace and fireplace..

we have a generator to provide the pump for the furnace if the power goes out, but you are right you would need to use a generator with fans or buy battery operated fans to move the air with a power outage..ryobi has some great battery operated fans with their plus one tool sets

As much as those things cost it looks like they would include a generator that kicks on when the power goes out.

[rambler]

Perhaps a good mortar chimney would make you feel better? They cost, but all your options will cost, and none seem better than the stove you already have. A good mortar chmney built right with the proper materials will burn off the gunk more easily and will 'take' a bit of a chimney fire a little better - no it won't withstand a full blown chmney fire, but it will not heat up the exterior so quickly or badly or as fast.

Just another option to consider.

--->Paul

[4nTN]

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

You have a metal stove-pipe, going up through a metal roof.

Over the course of a heating season, if you burn green wood [unseasoned] then it may build up creosote inside the stove pipe. [We do this too.]

You do have an option of one day, mid-season, dropping the stove-pipe and cleaning it. Or else the creosote inside it may catch on fire.

The stove-pipe is metal, it can not burn.

The roof is metal, it can not burn.

The ground outside is usually covered with snow by then, so that any embers going up into the sky can not catch any thing on fire outside. Snow does not burn well.



If there is any combustible material within 3 foot of the stove-pipe, it may present a fire hazard.

They used to say to never have any combustible material near the stove-pipe. Because after many hours of being hot that combustible material may catch on fire.

So we do not allow any combustible material near the stove or stove-pipe.

Now, we have had chimney fires.

The danger of having a chimney fire is if you have something that is combustible within 3 foot of the stove-pipe. I do not have anything combustible within 3 foot of our stove-pipe.

Many people freak-out over chimney fires. Generally they all put combustible junk near their stove-pipe. So they naturally get worried about that junk catching on fire. I do not have anything combustible within 3 foot of our stove-pipe.

My advise is: never have any combustible material near the stove-pipe.

Yes but under the metal roof is wood,in the ceiling is wood.Can`t it catch fire if the chimney heats up enough?
We don`t keep ANYTHING near the stove.It sits on a built up fire safe stone floor and has backer board behind under a stone wall.I worry about wood in the attic catching fire.I did say I have one of those stove pipe/boxes? above the ceiling though.
I`m probably just paranoid.I`m sure it happend because of the build up of creosote when they were burning a slow fire for two weeks.

[4nTN]

Originally Posted by Ozarks Tom

Sounds like you have a great stove, and you need an effective way to stop a chimney fire is necessary. Obviously, two things necessary for a fire are fuel and (lots of) oxygen. Since the fuel is creosote in the chimney the answer is to stop airflow into the chimney. I wonder if your husband could rig an airtight damper at the base of the chimney. It might get a little smokey in the house until the damper can be safely opened again, but it should only take a couple minutes. I stopped my fire with a wet blanket over the front of the fireplace. It took about a minute for the fire to die down, but I took the blanket away too soon and it started again. After about 2 more minutes I took the blanket away and the fire stayed out.

We do have a damper in the first pipe up from the stove.But I don`t know how airtight it is.

[4nTN]

Originally Posted by rambler

Perhaps a good mortar chimney would make you feel better? They cost, but all your options will cost, and none seem better than the stove you already have. A good mortar chmney built right with the proper materials will burn off the gunk more easily and will 'take' a bit of a chimney fire a little better - no it won't withstand a full blown chmney fire, but it will not heat up the exterior so quickly or badly or as fast.

Just another option to consider.

--->Paul

Oh my gosh...."Full blown chimney Fire" I don`t like those words!!

I was thinking about a mortar chimney,they are much more attractive anyway IMO.But my stove pipe goes straight up through the roof.So it would be hard to repair the hole maybe.
I guess I just have to deal with it and keep a level head about it,but I don`t like it.I`m okay when hubby is here dealing with it.
Thanks for your reply.