LGD Help! suspect cocci

oberhaslikid · #1 02/15/04, 02:09 PM

My Pyer LGD is a 135lb. female has had diareah for a month and it wont stop I have gave her 3cc of albon and then in her water.No signs of stopping, and I tried Corid in her water she wont drink it.She is now expelling blood in diareah and vomitting cant get to vet till A.M. Lays around not alot of energy but not normal kinda mopey.I moved her out of the goats pen and tried to worm her (pyrentel ) and it upchucked too.What else can I do any suggestions?

countrygrrrl · #2 02/15/04, 02:38 PM

You need to get her to a vet now. The causes of that kind of diarrhea are way too numerous for self-diagnosis, and can range across everything from a foreign object in the gut (which could very well kill her in the most painful and hideous way [think peritonitis]) to giardia to cancer of the liver to who knows what?

The fact that it has gone on for a month, that she has lost energy and that there is now blood coming out says that it has become critical. This is not something you can diagnose or treat yourself -

In addition, with that kind of diarrhea, she probably needs massive influx of fluids, which simply cannot be done very effectively by mouth, and IV medication.

Please try to get her into a vet now!! If cost is an issue, think of the cost of obtaining and training a new LGD.

And good luck.

Tango · #3 02/15/04, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oberhaslikid

My Pyer LGD is a 135lb. female has had diareah for a month and it wont stop I have gave her 3cc of albon and then in her water.No signs of stopping, and I tried Corid in her water she wont drink it.She is now expelling blood in diareah and vomitting cant get to vet till A.M. Lays around not alot of energy but not normal kinda mopey.I moved her out of the goats pen and tried to worm her (pyrentel ) and it upchucked too.What else can I do any suggestions?

A good guess would be she got into something spoiled and has a bacterial infection. At this point she needs to be seen by a vet, I think. Keep her hydrated by offering her pedialyte or just plain water if you don't have pedialyte. Diarhea caused by dietary indiscretions can be curtailed by witholding food for 24 hours and then starting her on a bland diet of something like boiled rice and boiled (drain the fat) ground beef. It is probably too late now to stop it without antibiotics if it is what I think it is. I've seen it in several of my dogs for the past twenty years. Everytime one of them gets nto the garbage or finds something rotting and eats it. Of course i'm just guessing, here. Best thing is to just keep her hydrated and take her to the vet tomorrow. Best wishes and let us know how she does.

countrygrrrl · #4 02/15/04, 02:49 PM

Pedialyte is a great suggestion!

You can make a kind of semblance of it at home with a little sugar and salt in water. Use a syringe to administer by mouth.

If you know how to give subcutaneous fluids, think about that, too, with sterilized water (don't do pedialyte this way).

And yes it might be a bacterial infection --- but it might be a lot of other things. I had similar symptoms with a hound (sans the blood) who first contracted giardia, no cessation in symptoms then turned out he had tick disease on top of it. But his initial symptoms were exactly what you're describing. So ... you need an actual diagnosis from a vet, I think.

Much good luck, it's hard to have sick critters esp. when it turns scary.

Tango · #5 02/15/04, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrygrrrl

Pedialyte is a great suggestion!

You can make a kind of semblance of it at home with a little sugar and salt in water. Use a syringe to administer by mouth.

If you know how to give subcutaneous fluids, think about that, too, with sterilized water (don't do pedialyte this way).

And yes it might be a bacterial infection --- but it might be a lot of other things. I had similar symptoms with a hound (sans the blood) who first contracted giardia, no cessation in symptoms then turned out he had tick disease on top of it. But his initial symptoms were exactly what you're describing. So ... you need an actual diagnosis from a vet, I think.

Much good luck, it's hard to have sick critters esp. when it turns scary.

Yes, absolutely, the symptoms could be attributed to many things. Two years ago my little Chinese Crested came up with a bad case of dietary indiscretion, I tried to treat him at home for two weeks before I gave up. It kept coming back. When I described the symptoms to the vet on the phone (we had recently moved and I didn't have a vet yet) he told me it was parvo! and that if I wanted him to treat my dog, I had to leave him overnight with a $200 deposit. I got angry at the accusation that my dog didn't have his shots (I give them everything on schedule except rabies) and called another vet and was told the same thing. It turned out to be just what I thought it was but he was dehydrated and he needed an IV . So please don't go by what anyone tells you. The vet really needs to look at her now and treat her.

oberhaslikid · #6 02/15/04, 03:14 PM

I just got a Pom 6 months ago that would lick my barn boots that was on the porch and got the same symtoms,we went to the vet and had cocci.the pyer has the same symptoms,and likes to eat goat poop.thats why when I saw the diareah I suspected cocci.This is way too long and teatments arent working.She is 4 years old,I didnt think cocci got this bad in adults.We are going to the vet in morning.

countrygrrrl · #7 02/15/04, 03:23 PM

Parvo? But, if you look at the symptoms of parvo, they sound like a billion other things! Sheesh. Good thing you went to another vet.

Yes, dehydration can be killer, Tango is on the money. I'd get started on fluids ASAP. Dogs can get cocci, but I think it's usually at its worst in very young puppies - older dogs --- I think --- usually have a much greater resistance to it, so diarrhea and vomiting in them is often something else.

In any case, get going on those fluids! Can you check temp, as well? If it's bacterial and you have amoxicillin, I'd go ahead and get started on it, just in case, since you can't get to the vet.

Here's hoping for a fast fast diagnosis and a good resolution to everything.

#8 02/15/04, 04:42 PM

[QUOTE=oberhaslikid]My Pyer LGD is a 135lb. female has had diareah for a month and it wont stop

You should have went to the vet a month ago. Why did you wait?

Corgitails · #9 02/15/04, 04:50 PM

Parvo symptoms sound like a lot of other things, but once you've seen it (and smelled it- it's got a horrible, distinctive reek)- you'll recognize it if you ever see it again.

This dog needs to go to the vet, YESTERDAY. Failing that, emergency vet. Yeah, it's expensive. This isn't something that I'd let wait any longer. Diarhea over a week that doesn't respond to wormer (and hoenstly, you really should do a fecal first- no point in giving wormer if a dog doesn't HAVE worms), ESPECIALLY in conjunction with other symptoms.... that means a vet visit is in order, pronto.

Cait

#10 02/15/04, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You should have went to the vet a month ago. Why did you wait?

Ditto. This should have been dealt with at LEAST 3 weeks ago. I'd suggest you call an emergency vet NOW or risk losing this dog. Next time you'll be wise enough to call when it can be handled as a non-emergency call. Pedialite is great but I doubt you'll be able to get her to keep it down.

countrygrrrl · #11 02/15/04, 08:11 PM

I understand the compunction to whomp on people when a sick critter is involved.

But I have the feeling oberhas feels really really bad already.

And I can respect the whomping from people willing to put a name to it. But unregistered guest whomping? You need to be whomped right back, and twice as hard.

Sometimes, a little coaxing and sympathy goes a whole lot further than mere expressions of *moral superiority and indignation* in matters like this.

Oberhas has messed up big time, yes. But oberhas has asked for help and will be doing the right thing. I have a lot more respect for that than the classic HT Unregistered Guest moral indignation whammy job.

Here's hoping all works out for the LGD.

kathy H · #12 02/15/04, 08:31 PM

Just a little side note, certain types of dogs can get parvo even if they have had all there shots. I think it is pits, staffs and a type of lab if I remember right. Hope yor doggy gets to feeling better soon. And countrygirl is right if you want to criticize at least have the guts to post a name!

oberhaslikid · #13 02/16/04, 06:09 AM

Well, I watched her all day and did get her to eat 3lb. bowl rice and chicken cooked in broth and water.She is not down and cant get up.She still can jump up and bark everytime I go see her.because Its out of the norm.She runs with my goats and I dont watch her poop 24-7 so A month can go by fast.I first thought It was the food.somtimes the cats get diareah when we buy a new bag and not the same batch.I switched to see if that could be it.Then knowing I had the Pom go through this and that the Pyer will eat the goat poop.Thats when the albon came in.After a few days of treatment thats when I noticed How long this has been gone on.We are going to the vet to see Ill let you know.In case anyone else maybe going through the same thing in the future They wont do the same "mistake".

Cindy in KY · #14 02/16/04, 06:32 AM

Metronidazole (flagyl) is allot better than Albon at stopping diarrhea with dogs. The Albon liquid seems to give them diarrhea, when you use it as a preventitive. I like the Albon tabs allot better than the liquids.
You can order Flagyl online for very cheap, 100, 250mg tabs for $10. 250mg treats 25lbs. Given one a day for no more than 3 or 4 days. Usually the diarrhea will stop within 2 days. Maybe with the extra large dog, 2 a day. It is important you do not give this for long periods of time. Some vets prescribe this with high doses for 10 or 14 days, and that is way too much, it is a strong pill.

I even take a flagly myself when needed, and it stops the diarrhea right away. It will stop the flu bug in your tummy too. One will usually do it.

Dogs drink out of dirty mud puddles even with fresh, clean water available. They love poop of any kind. They get all sorts of bugs in their tummys. Even sesame seeds on a bun will cause them the runnys.

Vets hardly ever know what causes the diarrhea, it a matter of a guessing game. Fecals for cocci have to be floated, at least an hour for the test, to even see the cocci. Most fast fecals will show clean for cocci. Worms do not usually cause diarrhea, tummy bugs do. And it is very hard to see the bugs. All the vets can do is give meds and see if it clears up, or xray for any blockage. Swallowing a small piece of string will cause bad, even watery diarrhea untill the string comes out, and poof, it's back to normal.

Remember, when we worm, we kill the good bugs as well as the worms. Animals need the good bugs in their tummy to fight the cocci and other bugs. Cottage cheese, milk, yogurt will put back the good bugs after worming. Puppies get cottage cheese and Albon tabs after worming just in case. Cottage cheese fed alone is very good at stopping cocci. Changes the ph in the tummy. Hope your puppy feels better.

countrygrrrl · #15 02/16/04, 06:45 AM

Cindy's right, that metronidazole is pretty nasty stuff for dogs. It's used to kill like protozoan inhabitation

or something like that. But it's really hard on them.

Diarrhea in dogs can get pretty complicated pretty quickly. It seems like there's a bazillion possible causes for it, everything from simple bugs to panreatitis to cancer to eating something stupid to ... and the longer it goes on, the worse it gets for the doggie.

In any case, good luck at the vet.

sapphira · #16 02/16/04, 08:30 AM

Another food good for dogs with diarhea is cottage cheese. We cured our dog of severe dia. feeding her cottage cheese. Sapphira

oberhaslikid · #17 02/16/04, 05:49 PM

Well, the outcome was whip worms.She must be moved to another location, she cannot be in the same area.Panacur is the treatment for three days then again in 2 weeks.In order to put her back in with the goats she must be on a heartworm treatment that will take care of the whip worms also.

countrygrrrl · #18 02/16/04, 05:53 PM

Ewwww. Whipworms are nasty, about the worst a pup can get.

But that heartworm medwill take care of it. And Panacur is VERY safe, not like those old fashioned wormers.

As gross as it is, this is actually great news.

I was scared you were going to get a diagnosis of liver cancer or something, to be honest.

Glad she's going to be alright.

longshadowfarms · #19 02/16/04, 06:37 PM

Glad to see you got the dog to a vet and got some help with this situation. If I'd have seen this earlier, I'd probably have gotten on a soapbox about getting a correct diagnosis before treating

I'm too tired today to really get going. That dog is worth a mint for her own hide as well as the hides of all your goats. The trip to the vet probably set you back about $50-75 (office visit, test, medication) versus the value of her life plus the lives of all your goats. Glad you got a proper diagnosis and didn't need to leave her there for fluids and what not. That would have been expensive!

Hope you can make some arrangements for her that will help cure her and keep your goats safe at the same time.

Tango · #20 02/17/04, 01:26 PM

Haven't had anytime to be on-line but had to check out how your dog was doing. I'm so glad she'll be fine after treatment. I'm also glad you were able to get her in for a diagnosis. I go less and less to vets nowadays because the more I'm around my animals the more I learn and can treat. When treatment fails for me it is off to the vet. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.