Improving Garden soil

[PD-Riverman]

I want a Garden that grows some nice vegetables. Don't take it wrong---I do get some good vegetables, but my soil seems lacking. Its dark but when its wet you can bog half way to your knees then when it gets a little dry it gets so hard, makes it a little hard to get root crops out. This garden is in a some-what low place next to a nature made shallow pond in the edge of the woods that holds water until it goes dry, then the soil around it starts drying out and gets hard. Here is the way it is shaped---In the spring the low place/pond holds water----The garden spot is on a slighy incline the farther it gets away from the pond the higher the land gets. The way I work this garden in the spring is I prepare the soil as close as I can to the low water pond without getting into the soft/boggy area. I plant some things then in a couple weeks I am usually able to prepare a couple more rows towards the wet area, couple more weeks the same thing. Doing this really helps the plants take off because the dirt is so moist. Let the pond dry up and the dirt gets harder and harder. I feel it needs something added to help loosen it up. I have been so busy and did not have alot of extra time to put extra time into it. Now I have more time and I feel now that I have the equipment to work it---I have a tractor, disk, bottom/turn plow, cultivators and just bought a 60" rotor hoe/tiller. This garden spot is about a acre, when and what to plant that I can "turn in" that would help this soil? I do not have a water supply "Yet" to put in a sprinkler system in but I am working on it. Thanks for the Ideas/help.

[Fair Light]

I have a friend that has 6 Perdue chicken houses. They harvest the litter (bedding) and compost it and sell either the raw bedding or the composted finished product. If you have any commercial chicken houses in your area you might check to see if you can get a load of the raw. I would apply this in the fall as it will need time to compost before spring planting. "OR" you could plant something called "velvet beans"...my dad plants these...the beans aren't edible but it makes a great green manure. When the plant is mature but still green, he will harvest the beans (pods) to plant the next year then til in the plants with his tractor. Sounds like you need more organic matter to condition your soil..
Just my 2 cents....

[Callieslamb]

The answer to improving any soil's texture is 'orgainc matter'. You could plant something like buckwheat in the summer on any bare spots- let it grow to bloom and till it under. In your climate you could probably do it 2x a growing season. Or - over winter, grow annual rye grass - let it die back and till it under in spring. Any organic matter you can add will help make the soil less sticky. Mulch, grass clippings, straw, leaves....3-4 inch of it a year wouldn't be too much. that's a lot of "stuff" if you have to hunt it up - which is why I recommend green manure crops - like the buckwheat. If you have a part you can not use for 2 years, plant clover or alfalfa.

[TSYORK]

Compost and loads and loads of leaves will help improve your soil. Also, lime it; that never hurts.

[Fair Light]

Check your soil pH before applying lime. Lime it only if your pH is too low as in too acidic...usually below 6.

[Paquebot]

Sounds like you have alluvial silt. Any "green" organic matter isn't going to help the soil texture but could make it worse. Tons of leaves would be a big help. More tons of year-old shredded wood chips would be even bigger. How to get enough to cover an acre would be your only problem. I know that it takes close to 100 loads of bagged leaves with my Ford pickup to cover that much.

Martin

[motdaugrnds]

I agree with Paquebot. I would add "brown" items (not green) to your soil. You sure have your work cut out for you. Improving that acre is not going to be easy.

[PD-Riverman]

I Agree that I will have my work cut out for a acre. I was hoping planting something to turn in soil would help.

Originally Posted by motdaugrnds

I agree with Paquebot. I would add "brown" items (not green) to your soil. You sure have your work cut out for you. Improving that acre is not going to be easy.

[PD-Riverman]

This garden spot is where my nephew and friends used in the winter for a 4 wheel drive play ground. I have seen them have 5 4x4's sunk and 2 tractors trying to to get out the first stuck 4x4. I stopped them from "playing" and figured that this would be a good garden spot. It does work and grow's good as long as it is not to wet or dry. We have not had any rain here now in weeks and the soil gets so hard a few inches down that root crops do not do good when its dry. It seems to grow beans/peas real good but my carrots want to take a U turn so I keep them hand watered.

It really has me scratching my head on how to improve it because when its wet you sink----dry it gets real hard a few inches down.

I do have a 7x16 trailer with 4ft sides that I could use(this fall) to collect bagged leaves in town the day before trash pick-up, but I do not know if the City would allow me to pick them up. I can haul alot of leaves on that trailer.

Thanks for the help.

[7thswan]

Is this area a bog?

[jwal10]

Maybe you need to subsoil it. Plant winter rye, wheat, oats and peas and let it go to straw and work that in. Leaves, manure, grass clippings, wood chips, check with the tree trimmers, see if they need a dumping spot. Better yet, pile it all up and make compost....James

[geo in mi]

I wouldn't jump into any soil improvement projects until I found out: the soil type, the fertiliy level, the pH, and how well the area drains.

While it certainly sounds like you are describing silt, there is a sure way to know by doing a "soil wash test" or a "jar test" . This test is described in this website, along with several other important things(but, sorry, it is heavy with advertising): http://www.improve-your-garden-soil.com/ Another interesting website is the aerial oil survey maps which you can access and view your own plot at: http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm

As for fertility and pH, you can call your county extension office for that.
If you would like more info on soil testing, you can toggle over to the Gardening Forum--on the "Fireside" sticky, post #12 will have some more to see....

As for drainage, you will be able to assess that on site. Sounds like it may be slow....

Then you can hone on specific things you can do to make some improvements--hope this helps.

geo

[ronbre]

i suggest you go to your library or do some google searches on permaculture ..a good book to read is Gaia's Garden for a quick lesson on how to properly feed and prepare your soil and plant it.

sounds like you need to add some humus to your soil to me, I would start with some rotted leaves and wood chips if you have some avail..but don't rototill or disc..that will ruin your soil...pile it on the top. Mix in any lawn clippings (if they don't contain weedkillers or chemicals)..throw in a little wood ash if you have it around..sprinkle everything over the entire area..

the mulch will keep the damp soil from drying out and will rot and feed your plants..but please read the book if you can

also check out www.permies.com for more ideas

[PD-Riverman]

This area is real boggy when wet. It has shallow water is in a L shape just inside the tree line in a natural low place. The corner of the L shape naturally is the wettest area. Keep in mind that the boggy area is the closest to the wood line. About 50ft away from the woods is not boggy. It can be worked any time of the year, but it gets real hard a few inches under the surface when the water dries up. To give a better picture this area is on the side of a 12 acre field. I have tried planting in several other spots in this field but the rest of the field stays to dry for a garden, so several years back I started planting as close to the wet spot as I could and started having a lot better garden. My problem is when we do not get any rain for weeks. If it rains and "some" water stays in the wooded area I have no problem. This is why I am hunting some way to improve this soil so when the water dries up the dirt will not get so hard which I feel will help the garden plants. I do not want to create a worse Mess when it is wet though. Thanks!!

Originally Posted by 7thswan

Is this area a bog?

[kirkmcquest]

Maybe you can add drains and irrigation to help control wetness. It does sound like silt which can be as bad as some clay but not unworkable since you are getting some success without anything.

[fishhead]

I would send a soil sample off to the university so you know what you are dealing with. They can tell you the organic matter content of the soil.

[NickieL]

sounds like the way my soil was, only it was clayish. Really nast boggy when it's wet, gets hard and crusty when dry. I garden in what is called a "swell". In the worst spots I've planted willow, and things that can stand to have boggy feet. And the better parts I;ve built up the soil with straw, leaves, mulch, etc and it does pretty well now for my veggie garden. Par for the course in this neighborhood. We are surrounded by swamp land.

[oregon woodsmok]

If things grow well for you, your soil is fine like it is. Any soil can be improved with the addition of organic matter, but I think your problem with the hard soil is not lack of organic matter, it is lack of water. If you let the garden get dry, it will bake hard.

Compost is just about the best thing to add, but you'll have trouble finding enough compost for an entire acre. So the best place to start is the local stables. Usually, they will give you all their manure for free if you will haul it away.

Start your own compost piles and as the garden gets bigger, you will have more organic matter to add to the compost.

I never turn the soil. I just layer the organic stuff over the top and I end up with excellent soil (in a couple of different places with different soils). But if you are going to till, you could plant a green manure crop every winter.

For your root vegetables, I suggest that you do a couple of raised beds. They don't have to be high for root vegetables. You fill them with a combo of sand and compost and it is easy for the roots to form and easy to pull them out at harvest.

[linn]

Raised beds in another area may be your answer.

[RonM]

I just made myself a sub-soiler to get in this fall and break up the clay hardpan, andthen I will lime it ........