Windmill question

[earthkitty]

We have a windmill that the previous owner was going to hook to our pond, and he never did.

Can anyone give me advice as to what it takes to get that done? We just had a well digger out here, and he said his windmill guy no longer works for them.

Once we have the well dug, how do you go about hooking the windmill to it? In a perfect world I would be able to fill the pond and use the water for the animals and the garden.

Anyone have any advice? I am in a panic now...hubby sent the well guys away until he has more information, and we are stuck dependant on rural water.

[rambler]

This is a real water windmill, not decorative or electric type?

Is it erected, or in pieces at this time? Mostly a windmill must be directly over the top of the well with a rod running down into the well

Are you looking at getting a bored well, a drilled well, a shallow well, or a deep well? Some work better or worse with windmills.....

Do you have the windmill pump needed for your type of well, or do you need that part?

--->Paul

[earthkitty]

Yes, a real windmill about thirty feel tall, erected and locked. When unlocked, it turns freely and without sound. It is in fantastic condition, but would have to be moved to sit over the well.

Drilled deep well, water with sand at about 50', driller suggested going 100'. I don't know if that is because 100' is better or if it is because he gets paid by the foot.

We do not have a pump/rod system for it. Were going to leave that up to the guy who hooks the windmill to the pump, as we have no idea what to buy or how to fit it.

[haypoint]

You said dug well, but Ithink you meant drilled. Do you want it to produce water for you to drink at the house? or just fill the pond?

Either way, a pumping cylinder goes into the drilled well. A pump attavhes at the top, a takk thing with a handle. There is a rod that connects the pump cylinder to the pump handle and a rod that goes from there to the windmill devixe on the top of the tower. The wind blows, the rod goes up and down, water is pumped from the cylinder.

need more details? do you have the fan part? pump? Cylinder? Tower?

[haypoint]

Lehman's Hardware in Ohio, with a national catalog has deep well hand p;umps and brass cylinders

[haypoint]

if the water flow into the well is slow, any water pump can empyt it and run dry. if the cylinder is sitting in 50 feet of water that has filled the well pipe, it won't run dry as easily. so a deeper well gives that extra bit of water. if the flow into the well is fast, you don't need much reserve and a deeper well isn't needed.

[ErinP]

Do your well guys work on windmills? (Sometimes they don't, which can be irksome).

If so, just tell them what you want to do and they'll set it up for you.
Much as I love Lehman's, don't go through them for windmill parts. There are cheaper options out there. Windmills are still in common use. Parts are easily found.

But you need to make sure your gear box is functioning (just because the fan spins doesn't mean it'll run the pump). You'll need the sucker rod, the cups (leathers), the thingy that hooks it to the gear box, etc. and the whole thing will need to be tipped up over top of your well hole.
This is where your well guys would be useful, because it'll be easier since they can tip it up for you.

Here's Aeromotor's website: http://www.aermotorwindmill.com
They have diagrams.

[rambler]

I see you are in Kansas, so I didn't add concerns about trees blocking the windmill, or having enough wind.

Will be a little money in moving the thing, but sounds like you have it figured out, just need to find the person that knows what they are doing & get it all together.

Drilled wells are typically 4 to 6 inches across and can be very deep, 500 feet or more; dug wells are more like 3 feet across and typically are shallower, can get to 100 feet or so.

Drilled hits a water vein that is more like a gusher, dug hits seeping water that accumulates over time in the well and so you can pump out the water from time to time.

If you are planning both electric and wind pumps in the well (now or in the future), that is harder to do in a drilled, skiny well. Takes a little more planning as to size of casing, depth issues, and fitting the pipes and pump stem all down the hole.

--->Paul

[mightybooboo]

All I can say is lucky you!

Thats the most awesome water setup ever with a windmill powering your well.

[earthkitty]

No trees in the area of the well/windmill, the windmill, once unlocked, just flies in our Kansas wind.

Our last well at our old house had an electric pump. We had a hand pump installed so we would have water when the power was out. Brought the hand pump with us to this house so that we could put it on the old well here. The original well on this property (about 20 years old), had the electric pump removed from it when they built the house and put it on rural water.

I love Lehman's, but a lot of their stuff is overpriced. Won't be buying any windmill parts from them.

I imagine this well will have similar casing as if we were going to put an electric pump in it, only we will instead be inserting the rod system for the windmill.

Is there a rod system that will allow a hose to be attached so that I can water the garden with it, or will I just have to capture the water into containers? We will not be pumping this water into tanks for the house. The house will continue to be served by rural water. Perhaps that will change in the future, but right now I need to keep my pond filled ao I can stock it, and hopefully use the water for orchard/pastured animals/garden irrigation as well.

Am I overly optimistic thinking the windmill can power all these functions? Will the rod system just dump water in one direction out of a pipe?

I am trying to read the windmill sites, but I am supremely stupid when it comes to mechanics. That is why I am asking for human experience.

[Bearfootfarm]

Will the rod system just dump water in one direction out of a pipe?

It works just like a giant hand pump.

If you want pressure, youll need to store water in a tank and use an electric pump or gravity

[Windy in Kansas]

earthkitty I don't know where you are in Kansas but there are plenty of folk that work on windmills, move them, etc. Raymond Windmill Services at Raymond, KS is one such in the south central area. 110 East 6th Street, Raymond, KS 67573, (620) 534-3131

To move the tower a truck with gin poles and a winch is used to lay the tower down. Once in place it is raised up and the tower is anchored so that it will not be blown over.

The crew will determine the length of the pipe that is needed to connect the surface pump to the well cylinder, suspending it at the correct depth. Also the pump rod aka sucker rod length can then be determined.

Basically the cylinder is threaded onto a piece of pipe (rod connected too) and using well tools such as a pipe dog and pipe holder and block and tackle or winch line it is lowered into the well and held while another piece and rod are connected via pipe couplings and rod knuckles. This is the procedure until all are in place. Finally the surface pump is fastened to the pipe and is rested onto the well platform. Once this is done the well can either be pumped by hand using the pump handle, by motorized pump jack with the handle moved out of the way, or connected to the mill head for wind pumping.


These web sites will give you information. Lehman Hardware has already been mentioned.
http://www.windmillhelp.com/
http://www.windmill702.com/IPapalotes/Iseleccion.htm

One thing I would recommend is that a short piece of pipe be connected into the surface pump so that you never have to disconnect the pipe from there again. Pumps are expensive and if you damage the threads you are out of luck. By disconnecting at a pipe extending from within it there is no chance for cross threading the heavy cast iron pump.

Be sure to maintain the windmill head properly for longevity. Also the brake. ENJOY!

[Windy in Kansas]

I should have read all of the posts fully before I posted. The mill, rods, pump, and cylinder just bring the water to the surface and to a spigot on the pump which is called a bib spout, not garden hosed size but larger in diameter.

Most have a spigot shut off and an opening on the opposite side of the pump so that a pipe can be connected to pipe the water away. The spigot is most often used to convey the water away via a sloped pipe using gravity.

When piped away the water is often conveyed to an overhead tank and from there gravity fed to the house, hydrants, etc. The height and only the height of the tank and pipe size determine the pressure within the system. The overhead tank, etc. is generally housed in a building so that the piping and tank can be warmed enough in the winter to be kept from freezing. If you want pressure you will need a booster pump of some sort.

As to whether the mill can supply home needs, livestock needs, garden needs, and a pond all depends upon the supply within the well, the size of the well cylinder and pump stroke, and how much each of the aforementioned needs each daily such as pond evaporation.

You can get an idea of how much different sizes of cylinders will pump, but it should be matched to how much your well can produce and the size of the fan on the mill head to determine how much power it has and if it can pump a larger cylinder.

I mentioned the bib spout on the surface pump. There are generally adapters that can connect a garden hose to one.

Someone like the fellow at Raymond can answer all of your question properly and head you into the right direction.

In the other post I didn't mention about replacing the well cylinder cup leathers every so often. Erin did however. Sand is the enemy so get a good screen.

[earthkitty]

windy, I'm about 2 hours SE of Raymond. Our well driller used to have a windmill guy who worked for them, but no longer. They did say they would give us his #, but thus far we don't have it.

I have assumed that we need the well drilled first, then the windmill moved. Is this correct?

The windmill is currently anchored VERY securely, and does have a brake that keeps it from blowing needlessly. I wish I didn't have to move it, but I don't think the drill trucks can get to the area. It is by my garden. It would be super cool if I could have some sort of system that allowed the output to swivel, so that in one direction the water could flow via hose to fill the pond, then swivel the other direction to fill tanks for the garden and orchard.

Thank you all for the information and links. Since it is a furnace outside today, I will just sit here and read.

[Windy in Kansas]

Whatever you do make sure the well driller knows that you will be using a mill to pump the water. If to small of a casing is installed it will limit the size of well cylinder that can be used. THE OLD drilled wells were generally cased with 6 inch casing. Not sure that much of it is still used, generally 5 and even some 4inch these days as submersible pumps are used.

Yes the well will need to be drilled first.

You will need to tend the mill turning it off and on as needed so will want it somewhat close to the house. Closer also means less piping to the house and as the length of pipe increases so does internal pipe friction which decreases the water flow.

Sort of a basket hangs on the water bib spout on the pump, it does in fact swivel but pipe is attached to the side of the basket so swiveling is limited.

Just so you know---there are summer days in Kansas when the wind doesn't blow enough to operate a mill. There aren't too many of them but it does happen. After decades our family finally install a motorized pumpjack to use when the wind didn't blow. Cattle need water whether there is wind or not.

Conferring with the windmill man might be a good idea. He can get a feel for the site and your plans for water, a tank, pond, etc. and then advise you.

In your location I would expect an excellent water supply from the aquifer. IF your area is also covered by the Halstead office a link is here: http://www.gmd2.org/Index.html They were very helpful to me before I had a well drilled.

[Jim-mi]

I've known Bryce Black for years at the MREA Energy Fair...........(June 17-18-19 2011)
LoTec Windmill Service
Arkansaw WI
715-647-3033
www.bryceblack.com/lotec

He has been doing this for years.............
he can make the parts or find them.........
been installing WM's for years.........

He would/will be your answer to getting yours up and running....

Or go to the Fair and yap yap face to face with him.

[earthkitty]

Well I finally got the name and number for the local windmill guy. He now works for the drilling company that won't call me back! grrrrr I left yet another message there.

I hate to call anyone out of the area and waste their time, since they won't make any money off the deal.

[rambler]

I would assume there was a well under the windmill where it is now, did it go bad that it can't be used where it is?

--->Paul

[oneokie]

Here is an article that shows a pic of one brand of wellhead pump. There is also a list of companies that made/still make windmills and associated hardware. Use your search engine to check some of them out.
http://antiques.lovetoknow.com/Antique_Well_Pumps

There is a company in Amarillo, Texas (Virden Permabilt) that sells pump barrels (the actual pump that goes in the well) and replacement parts for same.

[earthkitty]

rambler, although the windmill has been set, there strangely is no well below. I have no idea why they did it that way. They were very handy people, building all sorts of things and doing it well.

Maybe they knew something I don't, but they said their intention was to hook it up and they never got around to it. It is set rock solid too. My BIL climbed it to see if it was in good working condition and it didn't budge.