Heritage Homesteading?

[PMcNemar]

First off, let me introduce myself since I'm new to the forums. My name is Patricia and I'm getting ready to turn 24 next month. I live in the beautiful landscape of West Virginia, USA with my husband, Brian, and our three wonderful dogs, Mason, Missy, and Dexter. All my life I've loved animals, nature, and the outdoors. I have relatives that raised chickens, ducks, goats, and cattle. Some of them in the past, some of them currently. I've always been a country/rural girl at heart, but right now I live in suburbia and feel completely out of place and unfulfilled. My heart yearns for open fields, the smell of fresh hay, and the sounds of the barnyard animals waking up at dawn. My husband is the complete opposite. He was raised in small towns, but not rural at all, and certainly has never worked with livestock of any shape or size, and shows very little interest in ever doing so. I'm patiently trying to warm him up to the idea of us buying a few acres in the middle of nowhere, with few neighbors, and those few also being homesteaders and farmers.

I've got a long way to go to reach my goals for a more self-sufficient lifestyle, and plenty of challenges ahead. Many of those challenges will be financial and dealing with my husband's firm city boy attitude. Right now I'm unemployed, so moving isn't practical, plus with mortgage, car payments, and student loan payments, we're in too much debt to consider moving. When I do get a job I'm very intent on beginning to save towards my goal of rural homesteading. I plan to start small and work my way up, of course. I found this forum while Googling homesteading and have already decided that I like it and will be able to find lots of useful information to help me get started when I am ready to set out on the adventure of homesteading. I don't want to homestead to make money, I wish to be live more self-sufficiently and to know what is going into my food. Thanks for your patience with the introductory part of my thread, and it will be a pleasure to become acquainted with all of you and to hopefully make some new friends as well.

Now on to the real reason I wanted to post in this forum. I already know that when I do finally buy my dream land, build my dream cottage, and begin raising animals that I wish to keep heritage breeds and only heritage breeds. Especially ones that are labelled as endangered by the ALBC. What I want to know is if anyone has experience with such a practice and if they have any advice and recommendations. Also, I want the opinions of people who raise more mainstream livestock on the raising on heritage breeds. Why do you agree or disagree with strict heritage raising?

My plans are to start small anyway. First off I want to begin a garden on the half acre we own now, plus set up some rabbit hutches and begin raising rabbits for meat now, since they are quiet and will likely not disturb any neighbors. Especially if they don't know that I'm using them for meat. Many people get squimish about rabbits being eaten, I've found out. Later I would love to add ducks or chickens to my little mini-homestead and progressively larger animals once we were able to move to several acres, when I could grow my own hay for feed.

Here's a list of the breeds that I wish to raise at some point and their ALBC standing:

Cattle: Dexter / Recovering
Goats: Nigerian Dwarf / Recovering
Rabbits: Silver Fox / Critical, American Chinchilla / Critical
Chickens: Dorking / Threatened, Sussex / Recovering
Ducks: Welsh Harlequin / Critical
Geese: Pilgrim / Critical, African / Watch
Turkeys: Narragansett / Threatened

Any advice and feedback would be most welcome!

[KMA1]

P,

Your plans to start now doing some things where you are are good. Other than animals, you might be able to garden some as well, even if it is small raised beds in the back yard. I don't raise any heritage breeds, I don't think, at least. Not sure about Highland cattle. But, here is my take on Heritage breeds. They are pretty much like raising any other breed of the same species. The only difference is the difficulty and expense in acquiring them. A cow is a cow is a cow. A turkey is a turkey is a turkey. If I could not find heritage breeds to begin with at comperable prices to other breeds, I would go with the common breeds until I had some experience, then move into the heritage breeds. Especially for cows, but probably for other species as well, no one will pay extra for a cow to eat unless you spend a lot of time and energy developing the market, and even then your location to a good market source is probably more important than your product. And if you loose some animals in the learning process, the cost of the lesson is cheaper.

I think the largest factor for you is the type of work you and your husband do. If you and your husband can live a few miles out of town and still work, then you have a good chance of making it happen. If you can live on one steady salary and you can work full time on the homestead then you have a better deal.

You have to understand that it costs a lot up front to get set up for livestock, the larger the more it costs. And if you are just doing it to raise your own food, its going to cost you a lot more than going to the grocery store. Most successful homesteaders/farmers have enough land to raise more than they need in order to sell some to help offset the cost of feed, facilities and your time.

And last, the real key to homesteading from scratch is getting everything paid for and living below your means. Get the loans paid for. Save up all you can. And look for something that you can easily pay for with the money you have. Then get it paid for. The interest on borrowed money can make you a lifelong slave to the lender. The more you can do for yourself out of pocket, the freer your are.

KMA1

[PMcNemar]

Yes, I do want to have all our debts paid off before we try to move to a larger plot of land. I hate being in debt to begin with, but you have to do what you have to do, and I know it costs a lot to take care of animal and that it is a lot of work. I do have some experience working with poultry and goats.

I'm not really looking to make tons of money off of homesteading. The goal for me with homesteading is living a fulfilling life, and to me, working with animals, raising my own food that I know what's in it, that's rewarding to me. I remember being very proud of my tomatoes and strawberries when I lived with my mother and was about ten years younger.

I'd also like to grow my own hay for the rabbits and goats, and to let the poultry free-range. This is not an immediate goal that I have, it is long term, but I am hoping to see it become more of a reality in the next ten years, with steady, if slow, progress from now until it is complete.

[MO_cows]

Welcome to the forum and good luck to you in reaching your goals.

Regarding heritage breeds, keep in mind that the ALBC ratings are based in large part on information provided by the associations and registries of different breeds and species. When people are raising them without participating in the registry, club or association (and this happens a LOT; memberships and registrations cost money), the numbers are under-stated and the status might not be nearly as critical as ALBC reports after all. Also, don't rule out that some breeds become rare or endangered because they simply weren't that good! So while its great that you have the desire to proliferate heritage breeds and preserve them, the species and breeds that best fit into your management system and goals might not turn out to be the heritage breed after all. Please keep an open mind.

There is a TON of great information on this site, happy reading!

[PMcNemar]

I have looked at each of those heritage breeds, and they all seem to fit in with what I'm looking for very well. While I do want to help the most critically endangered breeds, three of the breeds I choose are listed as "recovering" and this is because I looked into many breeds before selecting the ones I have. This animals are both heritage and will also suit my plans and needs. For instance, there are more endangered cattle than the Dexter, but that is a fairly small cow, which is great, because we don't need huge amounts of meat. I don't need to sell loads of products, maybe a small surplus, but my ultimate goal is just to raise enough food to feed my family and maybe even enough to feed my livestock as well.

[sandc]

Personally I have both the Welsh Harlequin ducks and american chinchilla rabbits. Both great breeds. The welsh's rival the khacki campbells we have had for laying. Have them in a backyard in the middle of denver at the moment. You might be surprised what you can start with where you are.

[PMcNemar]

I'm planning on looking into city ordinances on ducks and chickens and hopefully I'll be buying a coop for chickens and for ducks in the future. All plans need to get approval from my husband first, though. We're a team and hopefully we can get on the same page, but for now he's not much interested in homesteading, while I am deeply interested, so we'll just have to see what happens there.

[Timberline]

Welcome. My only advice would be to start with more commonly found breeds, until your husband is on board. Heritage breeds are obviously more rare and can be very expensive. I wouldn't want to spend thousands when I could have spent hundreds, only to find out my spouse is not going to go along and it may not work out.

Use your time with common, less expensive breeds to gain experience and knowledge. Better to lose a few less expensive Rhode Island Reds than rare Crèvecoeur hens when finding out that the chicken coop you thought was raccoon proof turned out not to be.

I raised Dexters for a long time and when I first started breeding them, they were much harder to find than they are now. I raised beef breeds and kept a Jersey milk cow while I was building my cattle handling facilities and learning. By the time I bought those first expensive heifers, I knew my facilities were going to work, knew how to vaccinate, worm, and do all those necessary things.

Also, you will have to do more niche marketing with rare breeds. If you need to sell a calf in a hurry for some reason, you'll lose your shirt taking it to a local sale barn. Another thing to think about is the politics with some of the breed registries. A large part of the reason I no longer raise Dexters was the constant squabbling that eventually led to the association splitting into two different groups. To be successful raising and selling heritage breeds, you need proof the animals are of that breed, and that means belonging to some sort of breed registry association. Even if your goal is not to make money, there will likely be excess calves, kids, lambs or chicks to sell eventually. I know you're a long ways from that, but it is something to consider.

[PMcNemar]

Thanks for all the responses. As soon as I get up and running I do plan on joining the ALBC, and I chose the breeds I did because they're what I want. Dexter's are smaller cattle and while they produce less milk than a Jersey, they produce a lot for their size and they're a lot easier to butcher and store than a larger breed, since I don't need as much beef as a standard cow would produce. The Welsh Harlequin ducks are some of the best egg producing ducks out there, and they are both good foragers and good mothers, same for the types of chickens I've picked out.

There are reasons I picked every animal on that list, not just because they're 'rare' or 'special', yes, I want to help preserve animals that would face extinction if not enough people showed interest, but their utility also matches what I'm looking at. I'm not discrediting what anyone is saying, not by any means. My mother already raises some commercial and heritage chickens and ducks, and they weren't that much more expensive.

All I'm saying in this post is that I did have my reasons for choosing these breeds and really hope I'm not coming off as someone that wants them just for the novelty of having them.

[homesteadforty]

Hello neighbor.

I started my homesteading adventure over here in nearby Frenchton just about a year ago (at the end of this month). I moved from the Baltimore suburbs to a little place thats 2 miles up the side of a mountain on a narrow dirt road.

I too am interested in heritage breeds. As some have said they can be more expensive and harder to find... especially if you want registered animals.

On the other hand if you want animals for personal use you can find them at a reasonable price around here with just a little patience and shopping around. I picked up a Narragansett turkey for $15 and several dominique and dorking chickens for $5 each.

My place came with 20 acres, two mares (a quarter horse and a paso fino... who just had a colt about 6 weeks ago) and a miniature stallion.

I'm only telling you about my stuff because I too was just starting out and on a limited budget... but your dream is out there and obtainable with a little time and patience.

It sounds like you have the right mindset in starting small and thinking through your choices and options. By all means do what you can... where you are. Maybe it'll help get your husband in the right mindset and it will definately help you with your desire to get things started.

Best of luck to you!
Tim

[Tracy Rimmer]

The single most important factor will be the support of your spouse. Seriously, if he isn't on board, you're going to have a very, very tough row to hoe.

Second most important thing is taking everything you think you know from all the stuff you've read, and setting it aside, and telling yourself that it's nice stuff to know, and might be applicable in future, but when you first start out, it isn't worth a whole lot, in comparison to real life experience. Trust me on this -- this is the voice of experience talking. And I grew up on a farm before spending 20 years doing the city thing.

The books and the websites and all the information is invaluable, once you're up and running and have some experience of real, live animals under your belt, because 99% of those books and websites were written by people who have a great DEAL of experience, and they tend to leave out the really, really basic stuff.

Stuff like: rabbits stink when you butcher them. Seriously, they smell awful. I've gutted deer, and butchered all sorts of animals, I have experience doing this -- and rabbits stink. You might think that this is no big deal, but trust me when I say that the first few you butcher for your table REALLY aren't all that appealing after YOU butcher them and experience that stink for the first time. The books don't tell you this. They tell you what to expect for growth, how to set up their hutches, what to feed them, and HOW to butcher, but they say nothing about the smell.

Starting slow is not just smart, AFAIC, but NECESSARY for success. Do not plan on taking too much on at first -- do one or two things at a time, and do only those things until you do them well. You'll be surprised at how much time those few things take, until doing them becomes habit.

Expect to spend at least 50% more than you think on any given project. If you don't, it will be a pleasant surprise -- but everything seems to end up costing more than you originally bargained for.

Get your infrastructure BEFORE you contract for animals to put in those pens and barns. Do *NOT* buy your livestock with a delivery date that you "think" you'll be able to be prepared for, unless you LIKE working on projects until three in the morning to be ready for when those pigs arrive at ten the following morning. Get everything in place, get it done right, THEN find the livestock.

These are just a few of the things that I learned along the way. BTW, I grew up on a farm, but my DH is from Liverpool, England, and as close as he'd ever been to a farm was the carrots on his dinner plate. Seriously, it can be done, it's just probably not going to be done in the way you've currently got planned.

[PMcNemar]

It would be great to find local animals, that way they will already be accustomed to our climate in beautiful WV. My mother orders her day old chicks from Murray McMurray Hatchery, and that's where I was planning on buying my poultry. Does anyone have any experience with them? My mom seems to be pleased with everything she's received so far from them.

The only pedigree I would really want would be the Silver Fox rabbits. I'm wanting to keep and sell show quality kits from them, while culling all the rest. I think it would be a good project for me to work on and I already have a breeder of Silver Fox in Ohio that I'm wanting to contact about buying an unrelated trio when I'm ready for them.

EDIT:

Yes, I'm really wanting support and approval from my husband. Taking it slow will be a way to not only ease himself into homesteading, but myself as well. I've helped on farms, but I know helping and running a farm of any kind will be much different. I'm prepared to work hard at it. It will be a labor of love, because I do love taking care of animals. I would never purchase an animal that I couldn't properly provide for. I'm doing my research first and thoroughly so that all their basic needs will be met as soon as they arrive. I'm wanting to start with rabbits, and then add chickens and ducks later. I know it will take time. I'm hoping to be on several acres and having my small dream homestead in around ten years. This isn't an immediate goal, it's a long-term goal of how I want to live my life.

Thank you for all the advice I've been getting.

[FarmboyBill]

You say your 24. Your at an age yet when you think youll be married forever, I, with age and experience in marriage and divorce 3, that marrying a spouse who isnt intrested in farming nor much else, isnt going to stick around with you long, the closer you get to your dream. I wish you the best, but, ive been there, I tried to get my Xs intrested in farming. All they saw was that I was takeing scarce money, that some of it they were makeing, and they didnt want to pay the bills while I spent any money on farming. They SURE didnt want want to spend ANY of their hard earned money on anything to do with farming. They didnt mind planting a garden, BUT they hated to weed, or pick it when it got hot. None of them knew how to can any of it. They didnt like haveing to chase loose cows in the woods, They didnt like driveing a tractor for ANY reason. They hated to ride the horse mower. They hated to cut wood when it was hot, and then I couldnt keep them out in the woods helping me when it was cold. I had around 42 rabbits here back in the 80s. All the money she would let me have was enough to buy octigonal light poultry wire. Well, poultry wire wont hold rabbits. I went into the army guard again and while I was gone for my AIT, I left her with the rabbits and around 2 doz chickens. n When I came home, she wasnt there. She had moved to Tulsa with her folks and had not came back home. There were white spots all over where the hens had got caught and killed and ate right there. The rabbits, the ones which hadnt got loose and killed and ate, had died and rotted inside their cages. That was when I got D # 3. I wish you the best.

[PMcNemar]

Wow, an encouraging post if I ever saw one. Although I'd be lying if I hadn't considered the possibility of my husband getting fed up and leaving. I'm really hoping that won't happen, and while I love my husband dearly, I don't want us to stay together if it ever gets to the point that our differences make us both miserable. Right now I'm the only one that's unhappy with our lifestyle, and I don't intend to spend my life unfulfilled and longing for a different life, I definitely want to make this work and am giving my husband the benefit of the doubt and trying to get him at least accepting of my choices in ways of living.

Also, your post makes me angry. Not because of the implications that my marriage won't last. It makes me angry that anyone would leave animals to suffer and die like that. What a sorry excuse for a human being she must have been. Sorry and no offense, but it makes my blood boil to even think of it. She could have at least sold/given away the animals before leaving like that.

[HilltopDaisy]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

You say your 24. Your at an age yet when you think youll be married forever, I, with age and experience in marriage and divorce 3, that marrying a spouse who isnt intrested in farming nor much else, isnt going to stick around with you long, the closer you get to your dream. I wish you the best, but, ive been there, I tried to get my Xs intrested in farming. All they saw was that I was takeing scarce money, that some of it they were makeing, and they didnt want to pay the bills while I spent any money on farming. They SURE didnt want want to spend ANY of their hard earned money on anything to do with farming. They didnt mind planting a garden, BUT they hated to weed, or pick it when it got hot. None of them knew how to can any of it. They didnt like haveing to chase loose cows in the woods, They didnt like driveing a tractor for ANY reason. They hated to ride the horse mower. They hated to cut wood when it was hot, and then I couldnt keep them out in the woods helping me when it was cold. I had around 42 rabbits here back in the 80s. All the money she would let me have was enough to buy octigonal light poultry wire. Well, poultry wire wont hold rabbits. I went into the army guard again and while I was gone for my AIT, I left her with the rabbits and around 2 doz chickens. n When I came home, she wasnt there. She had moved to Tulsa with her folks and had not came back home. There were white spots all over where the hens had got caught and killed and ate right there. The rabbits, the ones which hadnt got loose and killed and ate, had died and rotted inside their cages. That was when I got D # 3. I wish you the best.

Very drastic, but it happens, more than we want to admit.

Please, if you have a partner who isn't on board, do not get animals.

[Callieslamb]

I love heritage breeds, but I don't pick a breed JUST because it's endangered. There might be a reason no one raises that breed anymore. Feeling magnificent towards a breed of chickens (for example) is fine, until you realize they are eating their heads off and only producing 1 egg a week. Perhaps you have the financing to do that, but most don't. That said, I do pick heritage breeds that fit with my plan for my farm. I love Sussex Chickens any color! But I'm not buying the most rare - Coronation Sussex - for $12 an egg.

[PMcNemar]

That's what I'm getting at Callieslamb. I like heritage breeds, but I make sure the ones I'll get will suit my purposes and needs. I like the speckled Sussex and plan on getting them some day.

[haypoint]

Well, after reading your post, I was all set to throw a wet blanket on it, but a few other folks beat me to it.

Raising your own food is hard work and full of disappointments. You’ll need the support of your husband to make it through those hard times. You’ll want someone that can share the successes, too.

As an example, when you discover the neighbor’s dog ripped open the rabbit hutch and ate the new litter, it becomes unbearable when your support person says, “ See, you might as well give up instead of pouring money we don’t have into this folly.” There will be setbacks.

Many Heritage breeds became rare because other breeds were simply much better. Sure, there are breeds that just didn’t fit with modern farming, but for the most part, these “odd ball” breeds are simply too inefficient to be practical. I understand that you don’t want/need for the animals to be profitable, but losing money on your homestead gets to be a drag. If you can get only 50 eggs from a bag of feed and free range with your heritage breeds and 100 eggs from a bag of feed and free range from a more popular breed, how do you justify choosing the less efficient breeds?

On the other hand, many folks, with a knack for salesmanship, have made heritage breeds more profitable by intense promotion of breeding stock. You need to be a bit ahead of each fad. We’ve seen the rise and fall in popularity of a few already. Ostrich, Emu, Angora goats, pot bellied pigs, Chinchilla, Blue Fox, etc. I think we are about at the end of the line for Belted Galloways, Scottish Highlanders and Large Black pigs. If you can get into it as it peaks and then sell out before people start turning them loose on Public land, you can do well. Just have to be a promoter.

There are plenty of people on this site that have shared the struggle you are facing with a spouse that doesn’t share the dream. It is many times more complicated when children are added to the situation. This is a lifestyle that is hard to convince someone to adopt. Many of us have been guilty of assuming that things will change after we are married. Sounds like you failed to evaluate this major difference.

Whatever you chose to do, you do have a support system in the Homesteadingtoday Family.

[gracie88]

And now for a Pollyanna post My DH is not a farm boy. I do that stuff. However, every year he gets sucked in a little more, and he loves eating what I raise. So go for it. Get the heritage breeds. Not all of them are lesser quality. Do your homework, many of them only fell out of use because they were more suited to homesteading than CAFOs.

My advice: don't take on anything you can't do all by yourself. If your hubby wants to help, then great, but no one appreciates being railroaded into chores they hate and never asked for. Start very small, no major financial or time commitments, and nothing that you can't stick in the freezer and start over if it doesn't work out.

Also, don't pick any breed that is trendy unless you are an awesome salesperson and/or into showing. For example, a nigie doe (at least around here, YMMV) costs more than a comparable large dairy doe. My big girls give more milk and have more meat on their babies and cost less. Also, they can eat taller brush which is important to me A Nigerian dwarf would be a poor choice in my situation, although part of me wants one just because they're so darn cute. However, it doesn't cost any more to feed registered critters than unregistered ones. Whatever breed you pick, get decent breeding stock.

Also, a garden and rabbits are a good starting point, but you are ok with killing bunnies, right? Just making sure, some folks have a really hard time with that. DH has a lot of fun with my neighbor's and my ever-growing death-dealing skills . He says some of his coworkers are a little scared of us but he helps too with the bigger critters.

Last but not least, if your husband has any preferences, take them into consideration. I'm not saying grow what he wants instead of what you want, it sounds like it's going to be your project. If you are waffling though, for example, between chickens or ducks and he says his favorite dinner is duck l'orange (or however it's spelled) then maybe you do ducks first and buy a french cookbook. It's a little more inclusive and appealing that way.

[PMcNemar]

My husband and I spoke last night. He had questions for me and I had questions for him. I took his concerns and considerations, and he took mine.

A lot of his hesitation came from a misunderstanding. You see, my mother raises chickens and ducks. She has over a hundred poultry. My husband thought that was what I was aiming for. I explained to him that I was wanting to keep only a handful of chickens and ducks. Enough to provide us with yummy eggs and the occasional roasted chicken or duck, not enough to feed half the neighborhood. He was really relieved. Every time we go to my parents, he can't get over how good the food is, especially the breakfast of fresh scrambled eggs and bacon.

When I told him I was only wanting three rabbits to actually breed and keep for that purpose, while processing or selling the young, he was also relieved. He thought I was wanting to go into a huge farm. I guess I didn't explain it to him well enough. As long as I don't bite off more than I can chew, he's pretty receptive to the idea of fresh food. I've definitely taken into consideration that he isn't going to want to do homesteading chores and don't plan to take on more than I can care for by myself. Like many of you have advised, he wants me to take it slowly and one step at a time.

Also, we've compromised. I want to start with rabbits, and he says that's fine, as long as I have the money. However, he knows the Silver Fox is uncommon and the closest established pedigree breeder is almost five hours away. He knows because I explained it to him. So, instead of jumping into more expensive rabbits, we've compromised and I'm going to go for a pet rabbit soon to 'test the waters' and get some hands-on experience with a smaller, cheaper bunny to care for. If that all works out well, he says that as long as I'm spending my own money, that I can get the Silver Fox with his blessing. lol