Is this typical of commercial dairy farmers??

[billooo2]

To avoid thread drift on another thread. .....
I attanded a series of hearings regarding "r-bst labeling."

Some background.... (r-bst is a hormone given to cows to increase milk production. Some milk processors decided that they would no longer accept r-bst milk. Unfortuantely they only gave the farmers 30 days notice....and I would have been angry about that.)

So, in the infinte wisdom of the Ohio Department of Agriculture, they wanted to pass a rule that would make it illegal to have labels on any dairy product that said that the milk was produced without the use of r-bst.

I was shocked at some of the things that I heard some of the diary farmers say as part of their testimonies.

My question.....are these staements typical of the beliefs and attitudes of dairy farmers around the country?

1. "It is none of the public's business how we produce their food. All they need to know is that we pass inspections."

2. The ONLY people who care about the r-bst issue are the radical animal rights activists, and they see this as a way to put us out of business.

3. Grass-based farming is a really stupid idea. Look at the snow outside (it was winter), and tell me how many cows are grazing today.

4. I can't believe anyone would actually want raw milk. I would not touch that "crap!" (They appeared to have no knowledge of any components that are destroyed by pasteurization.)

5. Some were totally outraged that there were some consumers that would actually pay more for "specialty milk.".........organic, or r-bst free,grass-based etc

6. "All milk is milk. There is no difference. (Those comments ended after the owner of a dairy that sells grass-based milk brought in free haf-gallons and said, "Taste the difference!")

Are these typical throughout the country???

[oregon woodsmok]

Gosh, I don't know. I haven't spoken to every dairy farmer all over the country, so I have no way to know what is "typical" of dairy farmer thought. My guess is that they are all individuals and all have different thoughts.

Dairies are under huge and on-going attacks from the Humaniacs who wish to end all interaction between humans and animals, so I suspect that makes them touchy about it.

[Danaus29]

Sure typical in Ohio from what I've been hearing. The big mega dairies don't care about the quality of their product. All they care about is their bottom line.

[Alice In TX/MO]

In any population, there is 10% WAY down on the bell curve. Those are the ones in the diary industry speaking at the hearings. Pretty sad.

[Vickie44]

Most farmers I know , albeit small operations , stopped or never used bst or any growth hormones a long time ago. I do know that what is being pd on 100wt fluctuates but is frequently close to the same amount being paid in the 70's.Its tough to sell your product wholesale when you pay retail for everything you need.

[Tad]

Our co-op banned BST Apr.1, didn't effect us any. We did use it when they were giveing away free samples when it first came out but really didn't see that much of an difference. The produce more but they also eat more. There is no way to tell the difference between bst milk and non- bst milk or even organic milk. Milk is milk, it is more about providing the product people want. If it says bst free and people want it thats what the market will provide. You can't graze in the winter but our grass balage is the next best substitue!

[Michael W. Smith]

I would have to assume most of those comments came from the big "cooperate" dairys, not the little family owned husband, wife, and kids run dairy.

[Callieslamb]

Sounds like some of them over generalize like many other out there. The rest of them drank the Kool Aid.

[Wisconsin Ann]

You could go to the testimonies given by the thousands of dairy farmers here in Wisconsin about the last round of "make raw milk legal" to see how the Wisconsin farmers think....most are VERY aware that quality sells, and 90% of them actively look for ways to create niche markets. We still have the majority of our milk produced by farms with under 200 head. Very few used hormones to begin with.

I suspect that those statements are, as said above, from the 10% that are, um....well, there are probably 10% of any industry that are fool, idiots, or crooks.

the further we get away from growing our own food...from knowing where the food at least comes from...the more open we are to allowing cheats and crooks to grow our food. We shipped our toy making overseas, expecting quality we'd always had...and ended up with millions of recalls and lawsuits. We shipped our drywall construction overseas, and ended up with mold ridden homes. Clothing? HAH. poor cuts, poor workmanship.

There ARE those who appear to feel that if they have to use a proven harmless hormone, they should be allowed to use it. Farmers need to use anything available to just break even. And there IS a lot of pushing from animal rights activists..for sure. But going so far as to say that the consumer has no right to know? no....that's not a common sentiment here.

[Jennifer L.]

Originally Posted by billooo2

My question.....are these statements typical of the beliefs and attitudes of dairy farmers around the country?

1. "It is none of the public's business how we produce their food. All they need to know is that we pass inspections."

Actually, I tend to agree with this. If people are as unconcerned about their food supply as to buy it from the supermarket, and the farms are inspected to pass cleanliness, water supply, etc., then why should those consumers worry? And I don't think they do a whole lot. Most of the population simply doesn't care. Look at the junk they eat! McDonald's, sugar coated cereals, etc. The inside aisles of the supermarkets are quite frankly, garbage foods.

Originally Posted by billooo2

2. The ONLY people who care about the r-bst issue are the radical animal rights activists, and they see this as a way to put us out of business.

Grain of truth there, too. But of course it's just the tip of the iceberg. Again, the average consumer doesn't care, or they wouldn't be buying milk now.

Originally Posted by billooo2

3. Grass-based farming is a really stupid idea. Look at the snow outside (it was winter), and tell me how many cows are grazing today.

This guy is an idiot.

Originally Posted by billooo2

4. I can't believe anyone would actually want raw milk. I would not touch that "crap!" (They appeared to have no knowledge of any components that are destroyed by pasteurization.)

From surveys I've seen in the past, only 1/3 of commercial dairy farmers drink raw milk. The USDA tells farmers not to do so, of course, and some drink that kool aid. To be fair, it's difficult to get it out of the bigger bulk tanks for house milk without special valves on the tank, and that's just something else to wash. Plus, most farm couples have someone working off the farm so it's easier to stop at the store on the way home and buy milk.

Any time you open a bulk tank there is some risk of additional contamination, and I'll bet money that most farmers don't want to give milk to their hired workers and be opening the tank that way. It's not that you have one hired hand anymore, these places have a lot of employees if they are a larger farm---lots of opening the tank valve for house milk in those situations. Milk and meat always used to be part of the pay of a hired hand, but that's probably gone by the wayside on the bigger farms these days.

Originally Posted by billooo2

5. Some were totally outraged that there were some consumers that would actually pay more for "specialty milk.".........organic, or r-bst free,grass-based etc

Anger based on fear of losing their market, or reducing the price they get now. And I can understand that. They don't think there's anything wrong with the milk they produce,so they can't believe consumers think there is.

Originally Posted by billooo2

6. "All milk is milk. There is no difference. (Those comments ended after the owner of a dairy that sells grass-based milk brought in free haf-gallons and said, "Taste the difference!")

If you only buy the "normal" milk from the grocery store, like these guys probably do, then you don't know there's a difference any more than the average consumer. I would think a lot of dairy farmers would say "milk is milk".
I seriously doubt there's any TASTE difference between pasteurized regular milk and pasteurized organic milk, I can't see why there would be a taste difference after it's been cooked like that.

Originally Posted by billooo2

Are these typical throughout the country???

Probably. Dairy farmers have smart people and blow hards just like any other group.


Jennifer

[Lazy J]

Originally Posted by Danaus29

Sure typical in Ohio from what I've been hearing. The big mega dairies don't care about the quality of their product. All they care about is their bottom line.

Bull Pucky!

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by Lazy J

Bull Pucky!

Very true. Many things that have been said on this thread are bull pucky. And that sure was one for sure that you quoted.

[rancher1913]

well you are intitled to your opinion but I see it everyday around here. the big mega dairy (milking 20 thousand head) he does not give a ---- about neighbors or how hard he pushes the cows--its all about the bottom line and where he can get another dollar. the little true family dairy ( milking 50 head) takes care of his land and cows a lot better, his cows last for years. the big mega dairy gets about two milk cycles out of their cows before they go for hamburger.

[wolffeathers]

double post.

[wolffeathers]

My biggest problem with this(and GMOs) is the fact that they aren't fighting 'just' to keep the product, they are fighting those who don't use the product by preventing them from advertising their product as R-BST free. By making the non-rbst users unable to claim if their milk is or isn't, they are hiding facts from the consumer and making money off of consumer ignorance(in this case, the consumer is ignorant because they've made it harder to inform the customer that your product it gmo or rbst free).

If you want to market X, that's one thing. But if the people prefer X-free Y, don't keep the Y producers from advertising X-free.

[willow_girl]

Sure typical in Ohio from what I've been hearing. The big mega dairies don't care about the quality of their product.

That is odd, since they are paid a premium for delivering high-quality (low SCC) milk.

All the farmers I've known (and I've known quite a few, having been a herd tester) seemed pretty concerned about quality. In fact, they paid me a pretty penny to come each month and test their cows.

Maybe they just don't care how much money they make or spend?

[rambler]

Originally Posted by billooo2

To avoid thread drift on another thread. .....
I attanded a series of hearings regarding "r-bst labeling."

Some background.... (r-bst is a hormone given to cows to increase milk production. Some milk processors decided that they would no longer accept r-bst milk. Unfortuantely they only gave the farmers 30 days notice....and I would have been angry about that.)

So, in the infinte wisdom of the Ohio Department of Agriculture, they wanted to pass a rule that would make it illegal to have labels on any dairy product that said that the milk was produced without the use of r-bst.

I was shocked at some of the things that I heard some of the diary farmers say as part of their testimonies.

My question.....are these staements typical of the beliefs and attitudes of dairy farmers around the country?

1. "It is none of the public's business how we produce their food. All they need to know is that we pass inspections."

2. The ONLY people who care about the r-bst issue are the radical animal rights activists, and they see this as a way to put us out of business.

3. Grass-based farming is a really stupid idea. Look at the snow outside (it was winter), and tell me how many cows are grazing today.

4. I can't believe anyone would actually want raw milk. I would not touch that "crap!" (They appeared to have no knowledge of any components that are destroyed by pasteurization.)

5. Some were totally outraged that there were some consumers that would actually pay more for "specialty milk.".........organic, or r-bst free,grass-based etc

6. "All milk is milk. There is no difference. (Those comments ended after the owner of a dairy that sells grass-based milk brought in free haf-gallons and said, "Taste the difference!")

Are these typical throughout the country???

Well, to be fair, BST is a natural thing in a cow so it's pretty dumb to try to label cow milk as free of it. I suppose I should 'know what you mean' but then, that would apply to your list as well.....

Number 2 on your list is very true and is a concern any farmer or consumer should have - there are well0funded groups just out ot destroy any sort of human/animal interaction for their own religious beliefs, and those groups are to be feared & rallied against.

Number 1 is silly _as worded_, but it pretty well sums up any sort of manufacturing process - you can't walk into 3M or Kraft or GM with a camera and demand to know the exact steps of how things are made - trade secrets, spcialized technology, etc. 90% of the consumers don't _want_ to be in a dairy barn, and most of the rest are growing thier own milk, so that doesn't really leave many people who would be intrested.

Can you explain #3 better yourself? I'm in Minnesota, grazing season is May 15th through October, and the middle of August often gets terrible dry and short dry grass of low protien value.... How _do_ you create pure grass fed milk in a cold climate? I'm not sure how one does it, I am curious? It is not a _stupid_ idea, wrong to word it like that; but then, how does it work?

4. Some people believe there are dangers in raw milk, and that's been documented enough. This comment is no more outragious than some of the pro-raw milk folks and what they have to say. Two wrongs don't make a right, but all in all this is just a personal belief from one side of the situation, and don't find it allt hat strange?

5. Hum. A small group of people puts down their milk, wants to change how they do things, has no facts to back up that their product is somehow better or worth more, and then you are upset with them for being a bit crabby about being treated that way????? Seems like a perfectly normal annoyance and dismissal of people that are avowed to destroy you. What else should they say????

6. No, milk can be different. That's what this is all about isn't it?


Anyhow, those comments aren't all that great, but then compared to some of the things the other side says, doesn't seem too far off the wall? If you are taking the 6 worst comments you can find and trying to paint a whole industry with one big brush..... Well, says a lot about you?

I've never dairied in any way, my neighbors who do don't use rBST, I _think_ the local dairy outfit doesn't use rBST milk any more, and when I grew up I drank milk that came from the cow down in the barn, the thick cream was neat.... So I'm probably not all one sided on this deal if you want to judge me too....

--->Paul

[gone-a-milkin]

Nevermind, maybe I will try to post something when I calm down.

[Tad]

Originally Posted by willow_girl

That is odd, since they are paid a premium for delivering high-quality (low SCC) milk.

All the farmers I've known (and I've known quite a few, having been a herd tester) seemed pretty concerned about quality. In fact, they paid me a pretty penny to come each month and test their cows.

Maybe they just don't care how much money they make or spend?

Our co-op pays $.68 for milk under 100K scc, you don't make money abuseing or neglecting cows. We have a few farms over 1000 cows that run 50-70K on scc. Ship 50,000lbs per day and the premiems add up. I personaly don't care about the label, it does steam me alittle how they label orgamic milk when the tell you it's free of antibiotics, chemicals and the like, letting people assume I am at the bulk take in a lab coat adding poisons to regular milk.

[MaineFarmMom]

Originally Posted by billooo2

Some background.... (r-bst is a hormone given to cows to increase milk production.

It's an artificial hormone, not the naturally occurring bst cows produce. Artificial is the important concept.

So, in the infinte wisdom of the Ohio Department of Agriculture, they wanted to pass a rule that would make it illegal to have labels on any dairy product that said that the milk was produced without the use of r-bst.

Monsanto sued Oakhurst here in Maine and won. Oakhurst's label now says "Our Farmers Pledge: No Artificial Growth Hormone Used." There's also a disclaimer that says there's no significant different in the milk from cows treated with artificial hormones.

My question.....are these staements typical of the beliefs and attitudes of dairy farmers around the country?

NO! I talk to a lot of dairy farmers because I'm an agriculture writer for a large ag newspaper. The majority of dairy farmers in Maine are not this closed minded regardless of which side of rBST they're on.

1. "It is none of the public's business how we produce their food. All they need to know is that we pass inspections."

These are farmers who need to pay attention to the growing concern about how food is produced. An arrogant attitude like this might come back to haunt them.

2. The ONLY people who care about the r-bst issue are the radical animal rights activists, and they see this as a way to put us out of business.

Not at all true. Enough people care about this for Walmart/Sam's to drop milk from farmers who use artificial growth hormones. Think about that. Are all of the shoppers at Walmart and Sam's radical animal rights activists? I'd bet a majority of them don't care.

3. Grass-based farming is a really stupid idea. Look at the snow outside (it was winter), and tell me how many cows are grazing today.

This should be an embarrassing "duh" moment for these people. What is hay? How about silage? Cows aren't grazing here in January but they're eating hay and/or silage. What do these people think they're eating? It's alarming that people who won't recognize this are responsible for producing food. If you can't acknowledge that hay is grass what else do you refuse to learn, acknowledge and understand?

4. I can't believe anyone would actually want raw milk. I would not touch that "crap!" (They appeared to have no knowledge of any components that are destroyed by pasteurization.)

Farmers calling their product "crap" is alarming. I don't understand why someone would produce something they think is crap.

5. Some were totally outraged that there were some consumers that would actually pay more for "specialty milk.".........organic, or r-bst free,grass-based etc

They'll get over it. Or not.

6. "All milk is milk. There is no difference. (Those comments ended after the owner of a dairy that sells grass-based milk brought in free haf-gallons and said, "Taste the difference!")

I can't argue with some of that. All milk IS milk. If they can't taste a difference they're missing out on a lot of things. It's like saying all beef is beef so liver and prime rib have no difference.

Are these typical throughout the country???

I can't answer that for the entire country but there's a large part of it that's much better informed.

I had a conversation with a 75 year old conventional grass farmer (oats, wheat, etc) last weekend. We'd never met before. DH and I are friends with his son, a conventional farmer who has been a great help to me by loaning equipment. I use organic means. Our hour-long conversation included things like "organic doesn't allow fertilizer." That's not true. I use organic fertilizer because I'm still building soil quality. "Well it's not a guaranteed analysis." I got the tag off a bag and spent five minutes educating this anti-organic farmer of the facts on organic fertilizer. I asked if they spread manure on their fields. He said they do. "Well that's something organic growers do." After an hour we'd met in the middle and both left the conversation better informed.

Closed minds spread one thing - ignorance. I don't mean ignorance as in rudeness but as lack of knowledge.