Composting toilet designs for skittish wives and city slickers?

[cbcansurvive]

I love my wife dearly-she is a farm girl born and raised, she stacks firewood, feeds the furnace, helps clean the kill, helps with the chores, etc...but the one place we can't seem to compromise is flush toilets. Quite simply-she will not go in a bucket no matter how many different ways I try to spin it. We did have a breakthrough recently though during a visit to a national park. The parks have some sort of composting/pit toilets that require no water or electricity (they do have solar powered fans) that she used and thought were quite nice. After some questioning I got at the root of the issue. Basically, the reason she refuses the bucket idea (this maybe TMI for some folks so read on at your own risk ) is because that the err..."stuff" that you're err..."depositing" is plopping into a bucket mere inches from your behind. What she liked about the toilets at the park is that basically you're sitting on a seat over what looks like a black hole. Looking into it myself I'd guess that the "stuff" plummets about five or six feet into a holding tank or wherever its going. That basically solved the problem for her. So here is my proposal:

Many of you have probably seen the fancy schmancy composting toilet designs (that don't seem to work all that well) like this one where the collection unit sits far below the toilet:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...t=embedwebsite

My idea was to construct something similar, building the seat out of a simple plywood box with a conventional toilet seat, etc... Below the box would be a 6' or so length of 12" diameter corrugated drain pipe-like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/plumbin...pe-199552.html

Essentially that would serve as the conduit to the collection unit. The collection unit would simply be a 6 1/2 gallon bucket like the ones they pack pickles in. The collection unit would sit enclosed in a little plywood box so that removal would just mean opening the door and dumping the bucket (which I would do of course). Perhaps the most important feature would be a 12V fan that would be small enough to be powered by solar/batteries but powerful enough to create a slight vacuum in the system that would exhaust odors via a stack outlet 4' or so above the roofline. Does this sound feasible? Any other folks have a similar system they've built?

[ryanthomas]

Sounds great, but my only change would be to use smooth pipe instead of corrugated.

[oldasrocks]

I agree with ryan as stuff would get stuck on the corrugatted piping. The hard part is a steep enough slope to make sure of avoiding this "sticking" problem. Teflon coated pipe?

[cbcansurvive]

I get what you're saying-what I'm proposing is not a slope-100% vertical drop from the seat into the collection bucket. The reason I started looking at corrugated was because from what I've seen it's impossible to find PVC over 8", steel would be too heavy/costly, galvanized round duct would probably still corrode over time, and I can't think of anything else

[ryanthomas]

I understood it was vertical, but would still try to find something smooth. I thought of steel duct, but you're right that would eventually rust. Maybe you could find a sheet of 1/16" plastic and bend it into a tube shape. Just thinking of making it easy to clean.

[Belfrybat]

It certainly seems like a workable design. But I surely wouldn't use corregated pipe. Even placed vertically, the ridges would catch feces and cleaning it would be near impossible. Makes me shudder just to think about it.

[oregon woodsmok]

Except, now you are going to need water to flush the feces down that pipe.

[Joshie]

We have a wild life park that has pit toilets but they need to be pumped like a septic system. I will tell you, though, that there is no way in the world I would regularly use anything other than a regular toilet. If I was you, I'd pick my battles.

[Lizza]

I'm not sure why you are going the composting route. I agree with someone else, if a regular flush/septic system is an option, I'd just do that. Don't do something just for doing's sake. There are plenty of other "green" things to do.

That said, the bucket system is not bad. I have two teenage girls, they were not receptive at all in the beginning. Since starting to use the bucket system about 6 months ago it really has not been a problem at all. There is zero smell (if there is, you have problems), there really isn't any plopping sound or anything. The bottom has wood pellets then sawdust. Sawdust is the absolute best by the way, nothing has compared that we've tried. Once it gets 3/4 full, just take it out. We have two buckets for a family of 5 and take them out every other day.

[7thswan]

Is there any way you can just build a regular ol outhouse. The cabin our parents have has one and the place I lived in for years,it's all we had,no big deal. Certinaly not like anything in a Park where all kinds of folks using it. Worst thing is keeping the spiders out.

[HOTW]

Well kida funny but does she think about the fact that with a conventional flush toilet she "plopping" into water that while fresh is in the bowl where many have "plopped" before?

The system she liked basically is what you think it is a bunch of toilets over the compost holding tank, maybe she'd be less EWW factor if you built a "throne" higher than a normal with steps of course so the bucket is farther away from her nether region...

[Explorer]

Look into irrigation pipe as it come in larger diameters. Here 12" PVC pipe is common.

[cbcansurvive]

Originally Posted by morningstar

I'm not sure why you are going the composting route. I agree with someone else, if a regular flush/septic system is an option, I'd just do that. Don't do something just for doing's sake. There are plenty of other "green" things to do.

Originally Posted by 7thswan

Is there any way you can just build a regular ol outhouse. The cabin our parents have has one and the place I lived in for years,it's all we had,no big deal. Certinaly not like anything in a Park where all kinds of folks using it. Worst thing is keeping the spiders out.

Thanks for the responses. The reason I'm pursuing this course of action is because we intend to buy land in a remote area of Maine that really doesn't have much in the way of building codes and such, but if you dig a well or put in a septic anywhere in the state you must pull permits which I don't want to do. The cabin will be a "temporary structure" (no foundation, just set on skids) and with only a surface well and no septic (grey water can be discharged onto the ground as long as you're not near the water) so as far as the government is concerned its just an unimproved 40 acre plot. No permits = no government people sniffing around.

Originally Posted by HOTW

Well kida funny but does she think about the fact that with a conventional flush toilet she "plopping" into water that while fresh is in the bowl where many have "plopped" before?

Are women just more rational where you come from? Just kiddin...

[Cyngbaeld]

Look into "Clivus Minimus".

[Cabin Fever]

Even with smooth 12" diameter pipe that is perfectly vertical, organic and liquid "stuff" is going to touch and smear on the sides of the pipe. Eventually this residual stuff is gonna stink. Consequently, I'd recommend fastening the pipe so that it can be easily removed, so you can bring it outside to clean.

[Lizza]

Originally Posted by cbcansurvive

Thanks for the responses. The reason I'm pursuing this course of action is because we intend to buy land in a remote area of Maine that really doesn't have much in the way of building codes and such, but if you dig a well or put in a septic anywhere in the state you must pull permits which I don't want to do. The cabin will be a "temporary structure" (no foundation, just set on skids) and with only a surface well and no septic (grey water can be discharged onto the ground as long as you're not near the water) so as far as the government is concerned its just an unimproved 40 acre plot. No permits = no government people sniffing around.

Oh, that makes total sense then. Really just try bucket toilets, it is really no big deal and they are very easy to clean and keep smell free. Tell your wife just to try them for one weekend, just at home now, then she can make up her mind. If she truly hates it you've only wasted a small amount of money and time. Get her a soft seat for it and use stall or wood pellets for the bottom. I've found with most systems, urine is the real problem, poo isn't really a problem, it's the urine.

I have used outhouses a lot too and can tell you hands down, just because it is deep does NOT make it better, it is far inferior to just a plain bucket system.

http://humanurehandbook.com/humanure_toilet.html

[KIT.S]

Looking for an extension tube, maybe you could use a piece of sono-tube with some of that smooth bathroom 1/8 inch paneling inside it? I can't remember what the slick paneling stuff is called, but it's very smooth and comes in various colors. If you butted the edges together smoothly and construction-glued them to the inside of the sono-tube, it would be pretty clean-able.
I really like the idea of being able to take the bucket out of the system from outside. I can just imagine tripping over a kid's toy while carrying it through the house to dump it....
And you can build it so it's accessible from inside the nice, warm house, instead of an outhouse where you have to go outside to get there. I remember being at a friend's house in Fairbanks, Alaska in the winter. At 65* below, they hung the toilet seat on the inside of the back door so it would be warmer and strung Christmas lights on the path to the outhouse, but you would still meet moose on the path sometimes!
Kit

[Pony]

Have you checked out the humanure handbook site?

The whole book online (FREE!)
http://www.weblife.org/humanure/

And if you go to Google Images and enter "humanure toilet" you'll get some great ideas for your own toilet - maybe without having to use a pipe and water.

[ErinP]

Originally Posted by morningstar

Oh, that makes total sense then. Really just try bucket toilets, it is really no big deal and they are very easy to clean and keep smell free. Tell your wife just to try them for one weekend, just at home now, then she can make up her mind. If she truly hates it you've only wasted a small amount of money and time. Get her a soft seat for it and use stall or wood pellets for the bottom. I've found with most systems, urine is the real problem, poo isn't really a problem, it's the urine.

I have used outhouses a lot too and can tell you hands down, just because it is deep does NOT make it better, it is far inferior to just a plain bucket system.

http://humanurehandbook.com/humanure_toilet.html

I'll second (third?) this.
The very idea of $@#&ing in a bucket absolutely creeped me out.
But, the idea of walking a quarter mile up to the outhouse all winter wasn't going to work, either! lol

So, I built a nice little humanure bucket toilet. Mine is a box that holds the bucket(s), covered in beadboard, with the original toilet tank set on it holding the sawdust. The whole thing looks really nice if I do say so myself.

Actual usage took me about three days to get used to. But there is NO STINK (unlike an outhouse. Even a "sweet" outhouse smells a little odd). It just smells like fresh sawdust.
Seriously.

Emptying, on the other hand, takes a little more nerve.

Mine, complete with beadboard, oak seat and six buckets ran me less than $50.

[ryanthomas]

Originally Posted by Explorer

Look into irrigation pipe as it come in larger diameters. Here 12" PVC pipe is common.

That's a good idea I didn't think of. May be a little tricky to find some places, but it would work great.