Alternitaves to Roundup for pasture?

Shades of Gray · #1 05/21/11, 12:25 AM

Here is our issue: We have about 21 acres of pasture that have been sitting dormant for about 15 years. We have NEVER sprayed anything or used any chemical fertilizers or herbicides. I need to know if there are any natural alternatives to Roundup, or is there anything out there like it but not from that company. I absolutely refuse to give Monsanto a dime!

About 13 acres were planted in alfalfa yeas ago, but it was never reseeded so it all died out. The pasture looks great right now with all the spring growth, but soon the cheat grass will produce it's seed heads and die, leaving about 6 lands almost taken over with the crap. Between the cheat grass and the wild mustard there isn't much grazing come August.

We would have liked to reseed this spring but we have to get rid of the majority of weeds first. Where our pastures have never been sprayed I would like to grow organic Alfalfa or Cicer Milkvetch on one half and get a good pasture grass mix on the other half. Hay was outrageous this winter, so if we can hay it ourselves and keep the livestock in rotational intensive grazing we'll be ahead of the game next year.

So my question is has anyone had any luck with using anything other than Roundup for weed control?

ace admirer · #2 05/21/11, 12:36 AM

2-5-d is a broadleaf killer, will not harm grass....not sure who makes it. i havenever used roundup...only 2-4-d

rambler · #3 05/21/11, 02:47 AM

Rent it to some farmer to grow row crops for 3 years, gets rid of the perannual weeds and reduces the seed load some in the soil. Will build up the soil fertility as well.

There are many, many companies that make a glyphosate spray - which is what the brand name Roundup is. Some are in the uSA, many are in China. TSC for example has -um, Ruff & Tuff I think? Bucineer, many other brand names.

Do you want to start fresh with black dirt, or do you want to save the grass you have? As mentioned, there are many broadleaf killers that will kill off the broadleaf weeds, leave the grass alone. Milestone is a good, agressive one made for pastures.

Organic, you need to stay away from most herbicides and commercial fertilizers for 3 years. Good luck with low fertility, weed infested ground... Add a lot of manure for the fertility; but then you are intorducing more weeds, and possibility of animal pathogens... Real hard to keep up with the weeds without herbicides. Mowing and grazing and getting the soil ph & fertility right will help, but it's tough to do under the organic rules.

Pretty late to do anything any major seeding this spring, takes a couple sprayings 2-3 weeks apart to get rid of bad weeds like Canadian thistle, etc. Or longer without herbicides. Need to get soil test for ph/lime, and set up your fertilizers - commercial or organic based.

Get everything set up, and replant in early fall. Can't reseed this stuff in the heat & dry of summer.

Come back with a better idea of where you really want to go, and we can have more specific plans.

Be careful of the home remidy weed killers - ground up corn meal will kill some sprouting weeds, and enough vinigar or salt on the plant will 'kill' a weed, but this works good for a small garden, and _none_ work like glyphosate - it gets absorbed by the plant, travels down to the bottom of the root, comes back up and kills off the growing points of the plants - real well. Unlike other options, the salt is bad for your soil, the vinegar is an acid that lowers ph & is expensive, hot water scalds the top of the plant but any good perannual will come right back....

You can work the daylights out of the ground, but deep rooted perannuals will come back from the roots, and there iwll be a billion small seeds in the ground as soon as it's black ground they will be eager to sprout & come up solid. (Glyphosate will get the perannuals, but the sprouting weed seeds will also come after spraying with glyphosate - it has no residual effect in the soil.)

Milestone has a long-lasting residual effect, so the small seeds won't grow, but the grasses will have a good chance to thicken and flurrish.

Roughing up the grass and interseeding a legume like clover or alfalfa can give you a good mixed stand. Can be tricky tho it catch a rainy period so the legume grows and doesn't get dried out or smothered out by the good grass.

Where do you want to go?

--->Paul

Micheal · #4 05/21/11, 07:27 AM

Ever thought about just mowing it down before any "seed heads" can be produced?
I've known farmers that mowed, disc-ed, and then mowed several times more (over the season) knocking down any and all new growth. It sure did kill alot of the weeds.
The disc-ing allowed for hibernating seed to sprout.........

Beeman · #5 05/21/11, 07:47 AM

Why chemicals? A bush hog and some goats will be the best thing along with a soil test and possibly lime.

Use Less · #6 05/21/11, 08:34 AM

We use "Honcho" around the orchard & under some electric fence line. It is similar to Round-Up but significantly less costly. I wouldn't use it for a big pasture area, though. An early summer spray kills everything off, but by fall, and certainly the second season, what comes up first or reseeds naturally are woody weed-things, not grasses. I'm for getting a tow-behind brush hog and mowing your pasture down a few times a year. Or, you could plow it all up & seed with something for soil enrichment & weed restriction. Sue

jwal10 · #7 05/21/11, 09:03 AM

How rough is the land and do you want to start over. Organic, nothing like roundup. Organic, plow everything under and use a spring tine cultivator (S-tine works best) to summer fallow, if enough moisture the weed seeds and grass seeds will sprout and continual cultivating will keep the sprouts on top to dry out. Some where in this process get your fertilizer (manure if organic)incorporated before seeding. Plant in the fall and don't let anything go to seed. Organic works well where you don't have a weed load to start with. If weedy, best to use summer fallow methods to clean the ground up first. Organic is equipment intensive and expensive at first and then levels out....James

paintlady · #8 05/21/11, 09:35 AM

I would agree with the summer fallow for a year-IE- keep it tilled under all summer and then replant next year.

Heritagefarm · #9 05/21/11, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

Why chemicals? A bush hog and some goats will be the best thing along with a soil test and possibly lime.

I was just about to say the same thing!
Goats are rather difficult to fence, and you would have to bushhog a path to put up temporary fencing. Also, if you use Roundup, how are you going to become certified organic? There are organic herbicides, however.

oberhaslikid · #10 05/21/11, 10:27 AM

I agree with the goats. I fenced 4 acres of growth you couldnt walk through. I used a machete to make path for the field fence. I turned the goats onto it and 3 years there are no sapplings very few weeds Looks like a mowed park all pasture even the trees are trimmed up so high.
The poor horses that are pastured in the property beside us wish they could trade places with the goats. They have the browse I need and I have the pasture they need.

tinknal · #11 05/21/11, 11:25 AM

You should be aware that the patent for glysophate (the genaric name for Roundup) has expired and companies other than Monsanto are now making it.

texican · #12 05/22/11, 03:58 PM

Burn it to the ground... a good burning takes care of everything. Costs nothing but a few matches... plow a fire break around the perimeter, and on a windless day (after checking with the Forest Service or local FD) if it's an ok day to burn.

Cyngbaeld · #13 05/22/11, 04:07 PM

For cheat grass, can you get a dozer or scraper and scrape the top dirt? I had a yard area dozed in NW CO yrs ago to put a mobile home and native grasses came back in abundance. The area had been covered in cheat grass and all outside the scraped area was covered in cheat grass. Disking might work too, but I didn't try that.

RonM · #14 05/22/11, 04:11 PM

Get it sprayed by an Ag contractor with Grammoxone, dont do it yourself......it willbe gone in a couple days...........referred to as burndown.....

Heritagefarm · #15 05/22/11, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyngbaeld

For cheat grass, can you get a dozer or scraper and scrape the top dirt? I had a yard area dozed in NW CO yrs ago to put a mobile home and native grasses came back in abundance. The area had been covered in cheat grass and all outside the scraped area was covered in cheat grass. Disking might work too, but I didn't try that.

I would not do that, as it would damage the topsoil too much.

springvalley · #16 05/22/11, 05:42 PM

If you plan to seed organic, you won`t want to use a chemical spray. I also go along with bush hogging, maybe some discing, and if you want to put in a fall seeded plow down that will control weeds try annual rye. It makes it`s own herbicide from the plant that won`t allow other plants to compete with it. Next spring you could plow it under and reseed oats with your alfalfa seed. No chemicals needed is my opinion, Thanks. > Marc

tinknal · #17 05/22/11, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

Burn it to the ground... a good burning takes care of everything. Costs nothing but a few matches... plow a fire break around the perimeter, and on a windless day (after checking with the Forest Service or local FD) if it's an ok day to burn.

Maybe with Texas weeds.....
Fire will not kill clover, any grass, burdock, thistle, or any seeds that are in the ground.

FarmerRob · #18 05/22/11, 06:37 PM

Goats, Pigs and/or Sheep. What could be more natural than that?

luvrulz · #19 05/22/11, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

Why chemicals? A bush hog and some goats will be the best thing along with a soil test and possibly lime.

I agree!

Tabitha · #20 05/22/11, 07:59 PM

what animals are you keeping? Our pastures had been idle for maybe 15-20 years. We hired someone to bushhog it once a year while we were not living on it. It was all weeds and sumac saplings. We keep a few cows. a few sheep and a few goats. DH seeded it in pasture mix and clover. I guess the critters stepped on the seeds and pressed them in the ground. It has improved a lot. we need to spread lime, DHhas no experience with all of that, I am about to paint a sign and hang it on the gate, a stitch in time saves nine. . We got a drum of fish fertilzer and sprayed it once so far. The goats like leafy things, I am surprised that the sheep and cows eat a lot of browse, too. When I think back to what it used to be, it looks a lot different now. A lot of grass is going to seed right now, we are waiting for that and then mow it.