Opinions on geophysical seismic survey

Sharmom · #1 05/18/11, 11:37 PM

We have had a gentleman from a fuel company, representing a geophysical survey company. They want to dig a 3 foot deep hole and lay cable across the property to do some kind of electrical charge to test for minerals. The problem is they would be going through our crops and cow pasture, as well as near our well. The last time a company did this years back, they cut a path through our woods and made a mess. I don't like the thought of them messing with our pastures and well.

Should I be concerned or is this no big deal?

I appreciate any input.
Shar

InvalidID · #2 05/18/11, 11:40 PM

Does someone else own the mineral rights to your land? If so there's likely not a lot you can do about it and the guys doing the testing won't likely care much about what you think. Best bet, butter up the foreman and hope he cleans up after cause he likes you.
If they are there to test and you own the mineral rights you could of course say no dice. Or you could get them to pay you for the damages done.

ETA: My only experience is from many years ago. People found mineral deposits on the land next to my granddads and the company that bought those rights wanted to see if the minerals continued onto our land. Granddad made it clear what they could and couldn't do and got it in writing. All in all he was ok with it, even though they didn't find anything worth digging up.

Sharmom · #3 05/19/11, 12:00 AM

I don't think anyone else owns the mineral rights to our land. When we bought the house 13 years ago, there was an expired oil lease on the papers, but they made it clear that it was expired.

I never thought about getting it in writing. Thanks for that suggestion! They do have papers they want us to fill out.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 05/19/11, 07:33 AM

Your paperwork when you bought the property should detail the mineral rights, but as you own the surface, the seismic people have to deal with you at this time. What they are doing is surface work.

The seismic company should pay damages, and that should be detailed in the contract. If you don't like what they are offering, ask for more! You are just a small landowner on a long line that they are wanting to test. You can negotiate a better deal.

Last time they did ours, we got a lawyer to pool all the landowners, and the lawyer got us ALL a better deal.

roachhill · #5 05/19/11, 10:23 AM

Shell showed up here wanting to do a seismic survey just yesterday but they needed my dadto sign a permit (since he owns the land). I don't they can do anything without your signature.

Sharmom · #6 05/19/11, 01:18 PM

The previous owners had an oil lease on the property that expired before we bought it, more than 13 years ago. As far as I can tell, there is no mineral rights assigned.

They never offered money, just want us to okay them doing the survey, as they say it is imminent. They are coming to meet with us this evening.

I guess what bothers me the most is where they will be doing it (through our fencing, pastures, garden). That's a lot of repair if they follow the other companies example. What would be a fair price to ask to cover possible damages, if we decide to agree?

Any other suggestions?
Thank you all for your help! I do appreciate it.

InvalidID · #7 05/19/11, 01:27 PM

I'd see what they are offering. Tell them you can't just let them shred your land and fences and what not for free. Whatever they offer you'll likely want more, but it's a good starting point.
If they don't like that you want them to make all the repairs and the like tell them you'll have to talk to a lawyer before you sign anything. (It's a good idea anyway)

I'm going to call Granddad later today and see what he can tell me about his experience. I was pretty young so I have limited details.

stanb999 · #8 05/19/11, 01:32 PM

Never sign for geo "exploration". It's a losing proposition for you period. The best case scenario is they know something is there and wish to lease from you. Even in this case you loose because you don't have access to the information found. So they will try to low ball you or say it's only so, so. When your sitting on the next Ghawar. The worst case is they find you have nothing and pay you for what they find.

Check out http://www.pagaslease.com/natural_gas_forum/
You will find a wealth of information on leasing. Answers to questions like the above. What you should expect to be paid.

Sharmom · #9 05/19/11, 01:45 PM

ID, thanks for the information and checking with your granddad. That is so kind of you!

Stanb, thanks for the link! A lot of information there. Your explanation is what is concerning to me and I don't like that idea much.

I will share all this info with DH today and will most likely postpone the meeting.

Thank you!
Shar

InvalidID · #10 05/19/11, 01:47 PM

On a second reading of your last post I have to ask. Did they say imminent or eminent?
Imminent is just a way to try and hurry you up. Don't buy into that, it's kinda like a car salesman telling you to hurry or you won't get this great deal. In real English it means don't think about how bad we're sticking it to you and just take it.
If they said eminent, as in eminent domain on the other hand call a lawyer now! Don't talk to these people anymore. Don't deal with them, don't let them on your land AT ALL. Get a lawyer ASAP!

InvalidID · #11 05/19/11, 04:02 PM

So I talked to my granddad and he told me he's dealt with this stuff a few times since he's owned his land. He holds a bit of timberland so there's always someone wanting to do something...
In his case he makes the company buy the trees on the land and also replant. When I mentioned your land is pasture land he let out a stream of expletives I can't repeat here. The cleaner version is there's no way he'd let them explore his pastures. He says the headaches you'd have to deal with aren't worth it at all.

Hope that helps.

Sharmom · #12 05/20/11, 12:07 AM

Thanks for the information from your granddad, InvalidID! It's really appreciated.

We called them and told them we are not interested and after a sales pitch, he said okay. We'll see if he comes back.

Thanks again for all the help!
Shar

texican · #13 05/20/11, 04:45 PM

Sharmom, you may or may not own mineral rights... not relevant for surface disturbance, unless they were going to drill on your land. Then, they'd not be legally liable to pay drilling damages (If you didn't own mineral rights) but as a good faith effort, almost always do.

From your description, they're laying a pipeline... They've been crisscrossing the several counties I know constantly the last two years... they don't bury cables anywhere... they lay out geophones on top of the ground, and they really love taping them to all the roadways. Trucks thump, geophones pick up the vibrations.

Last right of way I heard a price on was 250$/rod, which works out to about ~15$/linear foot. My last offer on my place, 3 years ago, was bringing 10$/foot. That can add up to some real money. If going through something valuable, the replacement cost is added to the 'rod price'.

One company wanted to put a pipeline through my uncles pasture, flagged out the route before the uncle 'saw it'. Had it taking out one of his pecan trees... He priced the tree out at 25K. Showed them his records of pounds per year, priced at the retail rate (they sell shelled pecans from home), and then for 30 years, the time it'd take for another tree to grow and replace it...... they moved the line.

Ken Scharabok · #14 05/20/11, 05:40 PM

As noted, mineral rights vary from state to state. What applies to me may not to you.

About ten years ago TVA brough through something like a 14" natural gas pipeline to the power plant in New Johnsonville. Today you would have to know where it was to see any difference.

Interesting they had to pass under I-40. Ran into rock. Couldn't blast so they had workers go in on a type of sled and air drill. I can only imagine what they were paid.

texican · #15 05/21/11, 12:55 PM

If a pipeline is going through pastureland, like Ken said, you'll never know it's there. If they "do" ever need to work on the line, they'll have to pay for any and all damages they cause, going across the pasture. Last time they accessed one of my pipelines, I had them dig a stockpond before they left. They wanted to 'balk'.... till I informed them there ROW was for the ROW only, and if they wanted to drive five miles across a swamp, on the "ROW" they could... if they wanted to use my good road to get their heavy equipment out (and their personal vehicles), they could burn a half barrel of diesel digging me out a nice lil pond.

Cindy in PA · #16 05/22/11, 04:03 PM

Seismic in Tioga County PA was only offering $5/acre. We did not sign at the time as most people advise not signing if you are not leased. Don't know if it was completed yet (we don't live on the land), but all our neighbors signed. There has been some instances of trespassing on land that is not signed, so be careful. The $5/acre was not enough.

texican · #17 05/24/11, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy in PA

Seismic in Tioga County PA was only offering $5/acre. We did not sign at the time as most people advise not signing if you are not leased. Don't know if it was completed yet (we don't live on the land), but all our neighbors signed. There has been some instances of trespassing on land that is not signed, so be careful. The $5/acre was not enough.

On the other hand, if they don't do seismics in a area without lots of production history, the chances of getting leased, without seismics, is low.

They did seismics over a multi county area the last two years... for 80 years, the region has been drilled 'out'... down to ~10K feet.... then the new shale formations were discovered... they've come back and did seismics, to ascertain where all of the new fields are. I would have let them seismic me in a heartbeat, as I actually have enough acreage for a unit, and would love to lease it, if the price of gas ever rises. I've not seen any damages, other than the thumper trucks driving across pastures... haven't seen any timber felled... wayyyy too many roads hereabouts anyway, and adds to their costs.

If you don't want your land leased, by all means, don't allow seismics... and try and get your neighbors to disallow seismic on their places also.

Sharmom · #18 06/02/11, 10:32 PM

Just wanted to update. This company has been calling or stopping by on average twice a week since we declined. The same man came back today with the vice president of the company with an offer of $500. DH told them he would think it over. They said they would stay in the area one more day to wait for his answer. That's a hunk of change to cross 250 feet of land?

I am really wondering what's up. Any idea's?
Thanks!

Our Little Farm · #19 06/02/11, 10:42 PM

If it were me, I would still say no.

You could be opening up a whole case of worms. Not worth $500 in my opinion.

Pouncer · #20 06/02/11, 11:32 PM

So, who owns the mineral rights? You, the state, or someone else? If you own the mineral rights, you can refuse easily enough. If they own the rights, I think you pretty much have to agree, but they may have to take you to court to get it done. Which will cost them much more than $500. Five hundred bucks is less than pocket change, hold out for more. JMO.

Main thing is, get a contract that they will return the land to previous condition (document with photos!) and if they are wanting any permanent line or anything of that nature, get a yearly fee up front. Put them on the hook for the well and any future changes to its composition and production too.