Looking to start a backyard foundry

[Heritagefarm]

I'm wanting to start a backyard foundry to make some components for my cream separators. I'm looking to start with Aluminum, since it seems to be the most easily worked. Does anyone here have any experience with this? Any help would be appreciated. I'm also wondering if Aluminum can be chromed or powder coated.
I've seen some of the foundries where they use an old propane tank with refractory cement lined in it. I'm also wondering how to make forms. Cream separators have a lot of thin components.
Thanks in advance!
~Ted

[Roadking]

http://backyardmetalcasting.com/
This site got me playing with the idea a few years ago...you should see the aluminum paperweights we've made (by accident and not paying attention...LOL). Really, a good sight to get your feet wet.
Matt

[Windy in Kansas]

One of our metals classes in high school industrial arts featured both foundry and forge work. I've made a number of things of aluminum.

We used old car pistons that were given to us which was about the only local source for aluminum at the time. Aluminum cans weren't around yet as beverages were either in tin or glass.

I don't know about chrome plating or powder coating, but we did anodize and also copper plate aluminum items.

In our classes I seemed to have the gift of making the best sand molds of anyone. The sand had to be dampened just the right amount in order for it to hold together and packed properly to get a good mold with good edges.

With all of the safety warnings the first pour any of us did was a little scary. The teacher seemed most comfortable with me helping him pour from the crucible into the molds.

If you've never been around the work perhaps working with some lead would give you a feel of working with molten metal.

[Johnny Dolittle]

Have you considered having the parts machined out of solid stock? With CNC it is easy to do once you have made the part program.

[Harry Chickpea]

Also, consider pot metal. The frames for old CD drives are a source.

[artificer]

Once you get set up, its addicting. Take a look at http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/ for materials/supplies. I've made a "temporary" quick small furnace from insulating firebrick and hose clamps. Fired with a propane burner, it works well with a #4 crucible.

My bigger furnace takes a #10 or larger crucible, and is propane powered as well. Another option is a waste motor oil burner as shown on http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oilburners05.html They have a lot of good information to get you started.

Don't get sucked into using aluminum cans. It just isn't worth it. The aluminum you get is low quality, and it can be dangerous if there's still soda in the cans. The best source of aluminum is previously cast pieces. The previously mentioned pistons are great. Automatic transmissions are also a great source, if you have a ready supply.

I really like the oil bonded sands. If you get the sand from Budget Casting Supply shipping will cost almost as much as the product, but you don't have to mull/riddle the sand, or worry about it drying out.

You can get aluminum chromed, but its not DIY friendly. Powder coating works, since its just melting plastic to the metal.

Take a look at the books at Lindsay Publications: http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/sub/foundry.html

It takes a bit of equipment and learning, but its really satisfying to get good parts when you're done.

Michael

[Energy Rebel]

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

I'm wanting to start a backyard foundry to make some components for my cream separators. I'm looking to start with Aluminum, since it seems to be the most easily worked. Does anyone here have any experience with this? Any help would be appreciated. I'm also wondering if Aluminum can be chromed or powder coated.
I've seen some of the foundries where they use an old propane tank with refractory cement lined in it. I'm also wondering how to make forms. Cream separators have a lot of thin components.
Thanks in advance!
~Ted

For the thin components I think you'll want them machined. Let me know if you need help with that.

Originally Posted by Johnny Dolittle

Have you considered having the parts machined out of solid stock? With CNC it is easy to do once you have made the part program.

[Heritagefarm]

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

I don't know about chrome plating or powder coating, but we did anodize and also copper plate aluminum items.

Oh? That sounds intriguing. How difficult is it to anodize?

Originally Posted by Roadking

http://backyardmetalcasting.com/
This site got me playing with the idea a few years ago...you should see the aluminum paperweights we've made (by accident and not paying attention...LOL). Really, a good sight to get your feet wet.
Matt

Thanks for the site, I'll have to check it out later (it is 10:25 here!)

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

Also, consider pot metal. The frames for old CD drives are a source.

A good idea. But I wouldn't use them for the cream separator parts; I want to make them as high quality as possible. Of course, I will not jump into the cream separator thing just yet, I will make simpler things first.

Originally Posted by Johnny Dolittle

Have you considered having the parts machined out of solid stock? With CNC it is easy to do once you have made the part program.

I am unfamiliar with machining.

Originally Posted by artificer

Once you get set up, its addicting. Take a look at http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/ for materials/supplies. I've made a "temporary" quick small furnace from insulating firebrick and hose clamps. Fired with a propane burner, it works well with a #4 crucible.

My bigger furnace takes a #10 or larger crucible, and is propane powered as well. Another option is a waste motor oil burner as shown on http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oilburners05.html They have a lot of good information to get you started.

Don't get sucked into using aluminum cans. It just isn't worth it. The aluminum you get is low quality, and it can be dangerous if there's still soda in the cans. The best source of aluminum is previously cast pieces. The previously mentioned pistons are great. Automatic transmissions are also a great source, if you have a ready supply.

I really like the oil bonded sands. If you get the sand from Budget Casting Supply shipping will cost almost as much as the product, but you don't have to mull/riddle the sand, or worry about it drying out.

You can get aluminum chromed, but its not DIY friendly. Powder coating works, since its just melting plastic to the metal.

Take a look at the books at Lindsay Publications: http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/sub/foundry.html

It takes a bit of equipment and learning, but its really satisfying to get good parts when you're done.

Michael

So, this sand and concrete, it can hold molten metal without melting? That is interesting. Why doesn't it just fall apart? Also, what is wrong with the Al cans? Are they not completely Al? Also I have been told (by the powder coater) that coating Al is not possible. I will have to ask him why. Perhaps it is just the type that I have him use.

Thanks everyone!

[Windy in Kansas]

After 46 years I'm afraid that I don't remember a great deal about the anodizing process. I simply remember that we hung the item in a solution and passed a DC current through it for about a day or ??

Clay bonds the molding sands together. Here is a YouTube video showing how a mold is made. The sand we used was very different looking and we use a little different process, but basically the same.

YouTube

The sand doesn't melt as the heat from the aluminum doesn't transfer enough heat quickly enough for it to melt and is also at a lower temperature.

The molds are one time use and the sand is not bonded with any agent other than the clay and dampness.

[Johnny Dolittle]

Here is an example of CNC machining

I am getting set up to do this but not ready yet.

YouTube

[davel745]

If it can be copper plated it can be chrome plated. Copper is a layer used in the chrome plating process. I agree on cnc machining. We have a pressing shop if you need parts made from tooling. We can run anything.

Dave

[Heritagefarm]

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

After 46 years I'm afraid that I don't remember a great deal about the anodizing process. I simply remember that we hung the item in a solution and passed a DC current through it for about a day or ??

Clay bonds the molding sands together. Here is a YouTube video showing how a mold is made. The sand we used was very different looking and we use a little different process, but basically the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2mqlwMyZU

The sand doesn't melt as the heat from the aluminum doesn't transfer enough heat quickly enough for it to melt and is also at a lower temperature.

The molds are one time use and the sand is not bonded with any agent other than the clay and dampness.

I see. Can permanent molds be made?

Originally Posted by Johnny Dolittle

Here is an example of CNC machining

I am getting set up to do this but not ready yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaVr89FO_FE

Wow. That looks complicated and also very expensive.

Originally Posted by davel745

If it can be copper plated it can be chrome plated. Copper is a layer used in the chrome plating process. I agree on cnc machining. We have a pressing shop if you need parts made from tooling. We can run anything.

Dave

So, can I just send you a peice and you can make a duplicate?

[Windy in Kansas]

"Can permanent molds be made?"

This site explains some of the mold differences better than I can from foggy 46 year old instruction. All we ever dealt with was sand casting. http://www.aluminum.org/Content/Navi...gs/default.htm

As you can probably imagine having a permanent mold made would involve having an item of a shape that can be extracted from a two piece mold. With sand you simply break it away from the object. That leads me to say that only certain shapes can be made, i.e. fairly simple shapes. Items such as a sugar bowl with protruding handles on a different plane than the bowl itself wouldn't allow the item to be removed from the mold so thus couldn't be reproduced. However if you made the handles solid and opened them later it might work. You must always think about how the item will be removed from the mold. Flared sides on the interior of a bowl wouldn't allow removal. Fill the sides in and machine the flare out later might work as an example however.

I located my old photos a little while ago so will try to get them scanned and into an account for viewing. Most of of only fair quality as they were taken with a Polaroid in somewhat difficult lighting with only guesswork for camera setting.

We never chrome plated anything as it is a more involved process and probably a lot more expensive than funds allowed us to do. I think our solution tank was an old aquarium with the DC source a battery charger or some sort of rectifier.

[Windy in Kansas]

With any kind of luck this link should take you to an unlocked album showing and describing in simple terms the process for foundry work. You will need to click on each photo to get the title and description of what it shows.

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t...oundry%20Work/

[Windy in Kansas]

I added one more photo showing three cast items. Same album.

[Alphawolf45]

Virtually all castings require further work once taken from the mold.....You will want to invest in a good lathe and vertical milling machine, and bandsaw to process the castings and , tig welder to fix defects.....I have all that and great deal more tools and machinery and years of experience and still find it often challenging to get good finished castings...
.

[Heritagefarm]

Windy - Thanks for scanning those and posting them! Appreciate it. The sand forms look fun, but kind of impractical if I want precision or high productivity. Though of course i would do them since it is the easiest and most practical.
This is probably a dumb question, but you cannot make an aluminum mold for aluminum, right? If I made a steel form, it would work, though, right? Or not...

[davel745]

So, can I just send you a peice and you can make a duplicate?[/QUOTE]

Pressing is an operation were tooling is made to stamp the part out and then hundreds of thousands are made. If you supply the tooling we can run the parts. I offered this in case you needed a stamping house to run parts.

Dave

[Riverdale]

Michael beat me to the Lindsay Books link.

As a former foundryman I ask you to remember the following rules

Damp anything + molten metal = BAD
Wear proper PPE (gloves, face shield, leather apron)
Damp anything + molten metal = BAD
Damp anything + molten metal = BAD

Also, if you happen to work with iron and or steel, rust is as bad as damp.
I remember seeing a 75# brake drum being blown out of a roof fan when it was being used as a chiller.

[taylorlambert]

I have a foundry a friend made using the Ron Reil plans and refractory brick. THe burner is made from pipe. Ive casted a ton of items. Een made cannon balls from aluminum for demonstrations. I use Petrobond Casting sand. Its got petroleum in it and will hold together very wel land is dry. I use styrofoam cut outs as a form of lost foam casting. I used a giant grasshopper dryed out for a mold.

Ive used wax to.