Alright alright, I'll start small

[chancehayden]

So after considering the feedback on my Permaculture farm in Costa Rica idea I agree that unless a great opportunity comes my way I'm going to have to start a small "small farm." I'm thinking ~30 dairy goats, a couple hundred free range hens, a handful of dairy cows, and of course nuts, fruit, veggies, herbs, bamboo, timber, and possibly electricity from a solar power plant on the farm. I'm also thinking somewhere in South Carolina, preferably in the Charlotte/Rock Hill/Fort Mill, the Charleston/Beaufort/Savannah, or the the Greenville/Atlanta/Athens area. There are some reasonably-priced tracts for sale in these areas but I'm looking for the perfect one, one that's never been clear-cut or timbered, gently-rolling hills, old hardwoods, maybe a stream or two. I've heard about some low-interest loans available for starting farms so that'll be one method of financing. I've got a small amount of money saved up to put in and my parents and family will probably help me also.
As far as experience, I'm hoping to work with a local "jack-of-all-trades" type over the summer (natural building, landscaping, and other permaculture-related skills) and possibly helping out around Split Creek's goat dairy.
Just an update I guess, though I'm always open to advice, suggestions, tips, etc.

[edcopp]

Do post every so often, and let us know how things are working out for you.

[Txrider]

Originally Posted by chancehayden

So after considering the feedback on my Permaculture farm in Costa Rica idea I agree that unless a great opportunity comes my way I'm going to have to start a small "small farm." I'm thinking ~30 dairy goats, a couple hundred free range hens, a handful of dairy cows, and of course nuts, fruit, veggies, herbs, bamboo, timber, and possibly electricity from a solar power plant on the farm. I'm also thinking somewhere in South Carolina, preferably in the Charlotte/Rock Hill/Fort Mill, the Charleston/Beaufort/Savannah, or the the Greenville/Atlanta/Athens area. There are some reasonably-priced tracts for sale in these areas but I'm looking for the perfect one, one that's never been clear-cut or timbered, gently-rolling hills, old hardwoods, maybe a stream or two. I've heard about some low-interest loans available for starting farms so that'll be one method of financing. I've got a small amount of money saved up to put in and my parents and family will probably help me also.
As far as experience, I'm hoping to work with a local "jack-of-all-trades" type over the summer (natural building, landscaping, and other permaculture-related skills) and possibly helping out around Split Creek's goat dairy.
Just an update I guess, though I'm always open to advice, suggestions, tips, etc.

Now that's more along the lines of something I would be interested in, love the location and the plan.. Look to USDA programs as well. And a very doable sounding plan as well to then build from.

Good luck..

[gwithrow]

ok, forgive me but if you are about to graduate, you need to know that all right is two words....

[Belfrybat]

Originally Posted by gwithrow

ok, forgive me but if you are about to graduate, you need to know that all right is two words....

Language evolves. Both spellings are correct. (Unless you went to school over 75 years ago.)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alright

To the OP: "small" is also defined differently, as what you define is large to me. I didn't read the thread about your farm in Costa Rica -- hope you are able to sell it OK so you can start anew here.

[ryanthomas]

Originally Posted by chancehayden

I'm thinking ~30 dairy goats, a couple hundred free range hens, a handful of dairy cows, and of course nuts, fruit, veggies, herbs, bamboo, timber, and possibly electricity from a solar power plant on the farm.

You call that small? You're crazier than I thought! In a good way. You sound like someone who just might pull it off, just with your pure ambition and energy. You almost had me convinced on the Costa Rica farm. Is that still in the long term plans? Anyway, good luck! Plant your fruit and nut trees the first year!

[Callieslamb]

Define small for me? LOL!! Best wishes to you. Do let us know how it goes.

[maverickxxx]

this sounds alot more practical. its going to be hard to find old growth trees. just a tip if its already cleared its going to save you a ton of money. you should look into to excavtion prices before you try to find a wooded lot to clear.

[FarmboyBill]

R U gonna milk 30 milk goats? If so, your gonna be milking all day. If your paying somebody to help milk, what are you makeing? Course, you can get milkers and cut the time in 1/2. Thats the best youll likely do, as you will have to wash the milkers, put them on and take them off, put them away ect. What are you going to feed the goats. If you think theire gonna give a great amount of milk on the woods you hope to find, They wont do it. If your gonna find deep woods, youd do good with hogs. Goats need grain to produce a good volume of milk. U mention nothing about farming. Milk cows absolutly need grain, or they will die. They will take the calcium out of their bones to put it into milk and that will eventually cripple and kill them. Your chickens will need corn also. Cows will need hay along with the goats,. Sounds like you would need a thousand bales of hay min to run 30 goats, and ? amount of milk cows. Sounds like you would need a ton of corn every other month at least to provide the grain the livestock and chickens will need. Corn is around $250/275 bulk here a ton. It would take maybe 20 acres of corn minimum if you raised it. It would take around 20/30 acres of grass to provide the hay needed. Cows will need open grassland to do their best at milking. Cows in the woods dont do well at all. 30 goats, and say 5 milk cows would need around 20/30 acres in order to find the grass that would keep you from haveing to feed them hay through the spring/summer/fall seasons.

[MO_cows]

Glad that you have moved closer to reality, but I don't think you are quite there yet. Why would you need both dairy goats and dairy cows? And if you insist on getting property with old growth forest, I can guarantee there are varmints in those woods. Kiss your free range chickens goodbye. I really do admire your ambition and ideals, but sounds like you are bound and determined to bite off more than you can chew.

[chancehayden]

Haha right on, thanks for the support!

Originally Posted by Txrider

Now that's more along the lines of something I would be interested in, love the location and the plan.. Look to USDA programs as well. And a very doable sounding plan as well to then build from.

Good luck..

[chancehayden]

Originally Posted by gwithrow

ok, forgive me but if you are about to graduate, you need to know that all right is two words....

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alright

You'll find it in some dictionaries. Besides, what is a word? If it conveys meaning and accomplishes communication then it's served its purpose. Check my other posts/threads and you'll see that I'm usually very thorough and proper with my grammar and spelling, though none of us are perfect as is evident in your post.

[chancehayden]

Ohhh yeaaa, winning the peanut gallery over! This plan is much more manageable to me. Some people can crank out computer codes, some can crunch numbers, some can cook. Well I can grow stuff like it's nobody's business (well, except mine...) and I have a passion for it. You should see my "yard" behind my apartment complex (that I'm not supposed to landscape). A dozen ~10 gallon pots, a dozen more gallon pots, sprouted apple trees, peach trees, nectarines, paw paw trees, nanking cherries, numerous kale bushes, a small wheat grass plot, onions and garlic, a couple hundred blackberry cuttings rooting, loquats, cuban mangosteens, annual veggie sprouts (corn, beans, pumpkins, lettuces, peppers, tomatoes, etc, etc), numerous annual and perennial beneficial-attractors, some native herbs like purple dead nettle, sour grass, and dandelions, and a couple bonsai trees. That's just off the top of my head without walking out there. I guess you could say I'm crazy in a good way haha.
Skills are something I'm in need of though and actually I met with a man for a few hours tonight who is looking for help with projects on his property. I'll probably live in the house he's renting out over the summer and learn to wood-work, metal-work, plumb, fix mechanical stuff, etc. Hopefully anyway. He's very sustainable-minded, not very capitalistic, deeply comprehends the zeitgeist movement, is all about consciousness-expansion, and overall one of the coolest dudes I've ever met so it should be a fruitful experience (literally).
Thanks for the support!

Originally Posted by ryanthomas

You call that small? You're crazier than I thought! In a good way. You sound like someone who just might pull it off, just with your pure ambition and energy. You almost had me convinced on the Costa Rica farm. Is that still in the long term plans? Anyway, good luck! Plant your fruit and nut trees the first year!

[chancehayden]

It's all about the systems my friend. Many of the systems we have engrained in our minds are antiquated and unsustainable. There are numerous forage plants I would employ for my goats and handful of cows (various grain grasses, lambsquarters, amaranth, chicory, clover, legumes, other shrubs and small trees, etc). There are systems we have yet to think up but with all our technology it's only a matter of time. I have a couple systems and rotations in mind that I'm eager to try out, especially with chicken houses and goats.
I'm planning on getting milking and bottling equipment also, probably starting with portable milkers. There's a dairy close to where I currently reside (Split Creek Dairy) and I've been in contact with them a little. They run their farm very sustainably and as close as you can get to organic without the government seal and they currently have ~300 goats on ~40 acres and have had as many as 700. I'm going to check out what systems they have in place and put my wild imagination with my friends' wild imaginations to come up with the master plan. We're mostly all young, naive, and open-minded so we shouldn't be lacking in brainstorming. I definitely understand that there will always be unforeseen circumstances but that's what being a permaculture farmer is all about, seeing problems as opportunities.

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

R U gonna milk 30 milk goats? If so, your gonna be milking all day. If your paying somebody to help milk, what are you makeing? Course, you can get milkers and cut the time in 1/2. Thats the best youll likely do, as you will have to wash the milkers, put them on and take them off, put them away ect. What are you going to feed the goats. If you think theire gonna give a great amount of milk on the woods you hope to find, They wont do it. If your gonna find deep woods, youd do good with hogs. Goats need grain to produce a good volume of milk. U mention nothing about farming. Milk cows absolutly need grain, or they will die. They will take the calcium out of their bones to put it into milk and that will eventually cripple and kill them. Your chickens will need corn also. Cows will need hay along with the goats,. Sounds like you would need a thousand bales of hay min to run 30 goats, and ? amount of milk cows. Sounds like you would need a ton of corn every other month at least to provide the grain the livestock and chickens will need. Corn is around $250/275 bulk here a ton. It would take maybe 20 acres of corn minimum if you raised it. It would take around 20/30 acres of grass to provide the hay needed. Cows will need open grassland to do their best at milking. Cows in the woods dont do well at all. 30 goats, and say 5 milk cows would need around 20/30 acres in order to find the grass that would keep you from haveing to feed them hay through the spring/summer/fall seasons.

[FarmboyBill]

Most former farmers I knew when they saw very many problerms, they wernt farmers anymore lol

[Joshie]

You say you have a small amount of money saved. Define small. What you're describing isn't going to be cheap. It doesn't sound like it's something you can do without good help.

What kind of chickens are you talking about? Meat? Egg? One hundred chickens isn't a small operation. Do you have a market? We lose money with our chickens.... and not a little. We've only got around 20. Feed is expensive. We go through a bag of feed each week. Each bag is close to $15. They cannot survive on just corn.

Do you own machinery? Do you know how to use it? How expensive is a place with good barns? Places with good fences can be expensive.

What experience do you have? Do you have money saved for your living expenses for the first couple of years? I just don't see how you'll make money the first few years. I hope you got a good education so you can get a good job to afford all of this.

[Heritagefarm]

Originally Posted by chancehayden

So after considering the feedback on my Permaculture farm in Costa Rica idea I agree that unless a great opportunity comes my way I'm going to have to start a small "small farm." I'm thinking ~30 dairy goats, a couple hundred free range hens, a handful of dairy cows, and of course nuts, fruit, veggies, herbs, bamboo, timber, and possibly electricity from a solar power plant on the farm. I'm also thinking somewhere in South Carolina, preferably in the Charlotte/Rock Hill/Fort Mill, the Charleston/Beaufort/Savannah, or the the Greenville/Atlanta/Athens area. There are some reasonably-priced tracts for sale in these areas but I'm looking for the perfect one, one that's never been clear-cut or timbered, gently-rolling hills, old hardwoods, maybe a stream or two. I've heard about some low-interest loans available for starting farms so that'll be one method of financing. I've got a small amount of money saved up to put in and my parents and family will probably help me also.
As far as experience, I'm hoping to work with a local "jack-of-all-trades" type over the summer (natural building, landscaping, and other permaculture-related skills) and possibly helping out around Split Creek's goat dairy.
Just an update I guess, though I'm always open to advice, suggestions, tips, etc.

Personally, I would ask some real-life people... Forums are notorious for giving out the wrong information. However, I think the 100,000 acre Costa Rico farm a bit out there, 'specially since everything you grew would get toppled by hurricanes. Oh, and a word of advice... Don't think you can permaculture everything right off the bat. Unless you sink yourself in debt with really great animals, you'll still be using grain to feed your stock, antibiotics, etc. If you don't, you take great risks. I used to think that we could just start that way - HAH! Big mistake there. It'll take awhile of selection, but you can get there. You won't start great, but start anyways.

[FarmboyBill]

Other than a smattering of laying pellets, Me, my dad before me, and my grandad before him ONLY fed chickens, hogs, horses and cows corn as the only grain. I know we raised oats, but I dont remember feeding it to the horses.

[Shadow]

I have not read the thread on Costa Rica, personally I have more to do than read the rantings of a college boy, with a garden in the back yard of his apartment thinking he is ready to farm. Is he for real, probably not just likes talking. Personally 70 years old with most of that organicly gardening, living on a farm, rasing most of our food find the poster either after getting a education, living a dream world or not real a complete fantisy. Come on out to Bluewaterfarm and we will let you show us you are ready to start a farm, Heck bring a couple of million bucks and we will get you off to a real start.

[rabbitgal]

Chancehayden, I'm 22 and spent five of the last seven years in sustainable ag with my family. I raised one species for the entire time (helped a bit with the poultry flocks too) and still felt like a total newbie when I got out of it to finish college. The learning curve associated with farming is substantial. My family's farm is still a financial black hole, although the food back home is better than anything else around.

With that being said, if you want the 200,000 acre farm in Costa Rica some day, GO FOR IT. Just keep in mind that it will probably take some time to reach your goal. The absolute hands-down best thing to do now is to apprentice yourself to experienced farmers who are successful in business. That's key. Even if you do want to start an intentional community, you still need to know how to run an organization and manage people.

For the actual agricultural skills necessary to pull off your venture, I would start with meat animals like feeder steers, hogs, a flock of Thanksgiving turkeys, or other small critters for your first season and see if you can turn a profit with them. (If you can make steers and meat goats happy, you'll have a much easier time with dairy animals, which are infinitely more complex to care for.) You can rent land to put them on. If you run into problems with them, you can slaughter them and you won't be out a lot of money.

You mentioned a goat dairy in the area -- would they allow you to house animals of your own there?

Honestly, I see no problem with your Big Hairy Audacious Goal. If that's what you really want to do, go for it! Just take the time necessary to acquire the skills you need to make it successful. Patience is a virtue...