Bad morning, truck not starting

[tinknal]

Went out to warm up the truck to go to work, won't start. Plenty of battery, just won't fire. Hope it aint the fuel pump. Worked fine on Saturday. I've already replaced an ignition module about a year and a half ago, I'm thinking it might be the same thing again.

'94 Chevy half ton.

[paintboy]

grr i hate those kind of problems. Always end of throwing a lot of money at them.

Good luck

[Beeman]

Diagnose first before spending money, usually cheaper then guessing.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Beeman

Diagnose first before spending money, usually cheaper then guessing.

I know. First order of business is to see if I have fuel and spark. If I have no spark I'm going to remove the module and get it tested. I'm suspecting ignition since it happened so sudden. With fuel problems it seems that there is usually some sputtering or poor performance before it completely stops. It usually fires right off and this morning it won't fire at all. I have the flash code feature on the truck, I'm going to look up the code and check it out.

[Cabin Fever]

Can you hear the fuel pump run when you turn the key? If you can't hear it, have your wife turn the key to START while you bang on the fuel tank with a hammer. If it is a bad fuel pump, this will sometimes get it to run. The brushes may be on a dead spot on the rotor. The banging is sometimes enough shock to get the pump to turn slightly so the brushes touch a fresh spot on the rotor.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

Can you hear the fuel pump run when you turn the key? If you can't hear it, have your wife turn the key to START while you bang on the fuel tank with a hammer. If it is a bad fuel pump, this will sometimes get it to run. The brushes may be on a dead spot on the rotor. The banging is sometimes enough shock to get the pump to turn slightly so the brushes touch a fresh spot on the rotor.

Thanks CF! Didn't even need the wife. I checked it out and the fuel pump wasn't running. Banged on the tank, turned the switch and the pump came on.

Two questions.

It ran for about 6 or 8 seconds before shutting off. Usually it only runs for about 3 seconds. Does this indicate that besides the bad brushes, the pump is failing too?

Second, It's mighty cold to be wrenching right now. How long to you think I can limp along like this before I need to replace it?

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by tinknal

Thanks CF! Didn't even need the wife. I checked it out and the fuel pump wasn't running. Banged on the tank, turned the switch and the pump came on.

Two questions.

It ran for about 6 or 8 seconds before shutting off. Usually it only runs for about 3 seconds. Does this indicate that besides the bad brushes, the pump is failing too?

Second, It's mighty cold to be wrenching right now. How long to you think I can limp along like this before I need to replace it?

I used the "banging method" on my Chevy for about a month. After the first "banging" treatment, the truck started just fine for several days in a row, and then, it would not start. Did the banging thing, it would start again for another several days in a row. Then, after about a month, no amount of "banging" would make it start. I had to have it towed to the shop.

The moral of the story is, don't wait too long before you fix it or get it fixed. It is my understanding that the fuel pump/pump motor gets replaced as a module. I believe the module is not that expensive. It's the labor to put it in that costs big bucks.

[Cabin Fever]

The extended run time of the fuel pump when the vehicle is started from cold, may mean that the fuel rail is not holding pressure. The pressure is leaking somewhere in the system. Consequently, when this condition is present, when one turns the key to START, the engine will not start right away. The start and engine will turn for several seconds withoug starting until pressure is built up in the fuel rail. Once pressure is achieved, the engine start.

I have had this low pressure condition in my 99 Chevy for the past few years. Rather then getting it fixed, I just turn the key to ON - and keep it there - until I hear the fuel pump stop. Then, I turn the key the rest of the way to START, and the engine fires right away.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

The moral of the story is, don't wait too long before you fix it or get it fixed. It is my understanding that the fuel pump/pump motor gets replaced as a module. I believe the module is not that expensive. It's the labor to put it in that costs big bucks.

I've done the job myself a couple of times on other vehicles. Technically it's not that hard, just a giant pain to get at. It usually involves dropping the fuel tank. I'm thinking that it might be easier to unbolt the bed and raise that up.

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by tinknal

I've done the job myself a couple of times on other vehicles. Technically it's not that hard, just a giant pain to get at. It usually involves dropping the fuel tank. I'm thinking that it might be easier to unbolt the bed and raise that up.

Yes, I've heard that both methods work. If you do raise the bed, you might want to consider cutting a hole thru the bed floor - and making a small door - directly above the fuel pump opening in the tank. Next time, the job will be a snap!

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

Yes, I've heard that both methods work. If you do raise the bed, you might want to consider cutting a hole thru the bed floor - and making a small door - directly above the fuel pump opening in the tank. Next time, the job will be a snap!

Yeah, I did that with a car once. The pump was under the back seat. I just removed the seat, used an angle grinder to cut a hole, and replaced the pump.

Now I'm worried about shutting it off. I went out to shut it off and attempt restart. It took a heck of a lot of banging and several attempts before the pump caught.

[WildernesFamily]

Stupid question here, but how do you know if you're getting spark? Hubby's car wouldn't start this morning and he had to take mine... I think I can change the spark plugs if that's what it is, but I don't know how to check for spark.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by WildernesFamily

Stupid question here, but how do you know if you're getting spark? Hubby's car wouldn't start this morning and he had to take mine... I think I can change the spark plugs if that's what it is, but I don't know how to check for spark.

It's really a 2 person job. You need to pull a plug wire, insert a metal object like a screwdriver into the plug wire so that it contacts the metal clip inside the boot, and hold it so that the shaft of the screwdriver (the metal part) is about a quarter inch away from a metal part of the engine or frame. Have someone turn the engine over. There should be a good spark jump between the screwdriver and the ground. Be carefull, it can pack quite a jolt.

I would say your problem is not spark plugs. Never do they all fail at once, and even with a couple of bad plugs it should still run. If you get no spark, the problem is definitely NOT plugs.

[WildernesFamily]

Originally Posted by tinknal

It's really a 2 person job. You need to pull a plug wire, insert a metal object like a screwdriver into the plug wire so that it contacts the metal clip inside the boot, and hold it so that the shaft of the screwdriver (the metal part) is about a quarter inch away from a metal part of the engine or frame. Have someone turn the engine over. There should be a good spark jump between the screwdriver and the ground. Be carefull, it can pack quite a jolt.

I would say your problem is not spark plugs. Never do they all fail at once, and even with a couple of bad plugs it should still run. If you get no spark, the problem is definitely NOT plugs.

Thanks for the explanation. We know it's not the battery, so maybe my DD and I will try the banging on the fuel tank trick. If we could at least get it going we could get it to the mechanics without having to get it towed.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by WildernesFamily

Thanks for the explanation. We know it's not the battery, so maybe my DD and I will try the banging on the fuel tank trick. If we could at least get it going we could get it to the mechanics without having to get it towed.

If the fuel pump is working you should be able to hear it run. Turn the key to the on position. Make sure the radio, fan, etc are turned off. After you turn the key on you should hear a low buzz in the vicinity of the fuel tank for about 3 seconds, and it should switch off. If you do not hear that buzz, then bang on the tank. If you hear the pump turn ON, and then switch off the problem is probably not the fuel pump.

[WildernesFamily]

Originally Posted by tinknal

If the fuel pump is working you should be able to hear it run. Turn the key to the on position. Make sure the radio, fan, etc are turned off. After you turn the key on you should hear a low buzz in the vicinity of the fuel tank for about 3 seconds, and it should switch off. If you do not hear that buzz, then bang on the tank. If you hear the pump turn off, and then switch off the problem is probably not the fuel pump.

Thanks! We'll give that a try. From reading on the 'net about other signs of a bad fuel pump it may just be that.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by WildernesFamily

Thanks! We'll give that a try. From reading on the 'net about other signs of a bad fuel pump it may just be that.

Please note the edit in bold in my last post!

[WildernesFamily]

Originally Posted by tinknal

Please note the edit in bold in my last post!

Okay, thanks, I appreciate the help!

[WildernesFamily]

Originally Posted by tinknal

If the fuel pump is working you should be able to hear it run. Turn the key to the on position. Make sure the radio, fan, etc are turned off. After you turn the key on you should hear a low buzz in the vicinity of the fuel tank for about 3 seconds, and it should switch off. If you do not hear that buzz, then bang on the tank. If you hear the pump turn ON, and then switch off the problem is probably not the fuel pump.

Well, the fuel pump came on. I guess this is just out of my league.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by WildernesFamily

Well, the fuel pump came on. I guess this is just out of my league.

Did you try starting it when the pump came on?