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  #1  
Old 02/26/11, 11:30 PM
cornbread
 
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Be very careful where you buy land.

Be very careful where you buy land.

Court case warns EPA could 'own' your land!
Petition to Supremes cites danger of 'ruinous' compliance order fines
Posted: February 26, 2011
1:00 am Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2011 WorldNetDaily

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=267893

http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/022411sacketts4.jpg

Mike and Chantell Sackett

A legal team asking the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene in an Idaho controversy is warning landowners that under the compliance order procedures being used by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency virtually anyone could be told to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in permit fees – or face hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and penalties – over ordinary home construction work.

A petition for certiorari has been submitted to the court by Pacific Legal, an organization working on behalf of the Sackett family of Idaho.

They own a half-acre lot in a residential area near Priest Lake and wanted to build a home. But after excavation work was begun the EPA "swooped in" with a "compliance order" that requires them to undo the excavation and restore the "wetlands," and then leave it for three years at which point they could seek a "permit" that could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

"Constitutional Chaos: What Happens When the Government Breaks Its Own Laws"

Or they could wait for the EPA to prosecute the alleged Clean Water Act violations, which could result in penalties of $25,000-plus per day.

According to officials with Pacific Legal, the Sacketts' land has no standing water or any continuously flowing water, and they would like an opportunity to challenge the EPA's "wetlands" determination in court.


However, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, the most overturned court in the land, said before a court could issue a ruling on the EPA's order, the family would have to go through a years-long, $200,000-plus process of formally applying for a federal wetlands permit.

According to the petition, "Ignoring the compliance order is no option, for several reasons. First, the CWA imposes significant civil penalties for violating compliance orders. … Just one month of noncompliance puts the landowner at risk of civil liability of $750,000. A year's worth of noncompliance puts the liability at $9,000,000."

WND calls seeking comment from the Environmental Protection Agency did not produce a response.

"The Sacketts are being hit with an unconscionable price tag for the right to challenge the feds' power play," Damien Schiff, lead attorney in the case, said in a prepared statement.

"Basic principles of due process say that the Sacketts deserve their day in court, to argue for their property rights. As we're arguing to the U.S. Supreme Court, putting an exorbitant price tag on the pursuit of justice, and the defense of property rights, is flat-out unconstitutional."

Mike and Chantell Sackett explained their situation themselves:

"The issue in this case is simple, but critically important to all property owners, and everyone who values fair play and due process," Schiff said. "When bureaucrats try to impose their will on private property, shouldn't the owners be permitted their day in court, to challenge the government's claim of control?"

Said Chantell, "They've stopped our life … I just think they're bullying us. I think they do whatever they want."

The video, produced by Pacific Legal, points out that the EPA could exercise such jurisdiction over any parcel of land anywhere in the nation.

The petition explains to the high court that the Sacketts "were provided no evidentiary hearing or opportunity to contest the order."

And it explains the 5th Amendment, which states, "No person shall be … deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," should be applied.

The 9th Circuit conclusion "leaves property owners like the Sacketts in an impossible situation: either go through with the permit process that you believe is completely unnecessary and spend more money than your property is worth to 'purchase' your chance at your day in court; or invite an enforcement action by EPA that may give you your day in court but only at the price of ruinous civil penalties and, depending on the EPA's ire, criminal sanctions for underlying violations of the CWA."

Even the permitting process is not realistic, it argues.

"In many instances the agencies will not entertain a permit application until the compliance order has been resolved … For the Sacketts, that would mean (a) removing all the fill; and, (b) restoring the preexisting 'wetlands,' which would necessitate leaving the property untouched for a prolonged period of time," the brief argues.

The legal team noted that between 1980 and 2001, the EPA issued up to 3,000 compliance orders every year across the nation.

"The reality of the Sacketts' situation is that they have been unambiguously commanded by their government not to complete their home-building project, to take expensive measures to undo the improvements that they have made to their land, and to maintain their land essentially as a public park until the property is 'restored' to the satisfaction of the EPA. They have been threatened with frightening penalties if they do not immediately obey; but they have been refused the prompt hearing they should have received as a matter of right in any court."

Read more: Court case warns EPA could 'own' your land! http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=267893#ixzz1F4RpQhra
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  #2  
Old 02/26/11, 11:38 PM
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welcome comrades, welcome.
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  #3  
Old 02/27/11, 07:16 AM
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Naw..... just grab another beer and see what's on the boob tube.
Everything is just fine.
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  #4  
Old 02/27/11, 09:49 AM
 
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Just another bit of fearmongering.

If it was wetlands, the buyers had the responsibility to find out through a title research before they bought, and they would have known.

If not, they would have a law suit against the title company, the seller and the Realtor - if there was one - for non-disclosure.

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Last edited by Wolf mom; 02/27/11 at 09:54 AM.
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  #5  
Old 02/27/11, 10:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf mom View Post
Just another bit of fearmongering.

If it was wetlands, the buyers had the responsibility to find out through a title research before they bought, and they would have known.

If not, they would have a law suit against the title company, the seller and the Realtor - if there was one - for non-disclosure.


This is my thought as well. It's comparable to buying land not zoned for commercial real estate and then getting upset when you get come down on for starting to be build a commercial property there. If the classification was in error, the owners have a lot of redress to correct this problem. I would think that even if the owners hadn't done due diligence it would still be in the standard title search information.
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  #6  
Old 02/27/11, 11:08 AM
 
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This one thing that really gets my blood pressure up. If some one buys land then they can do what they wish. If the government want somthing differnt then they buy it through emint domain or shut up. I live in an area where the Daniel Boone National Forest is very big. They have passed a lot of laws about logging your own land and although no law yet they raise a real fuss about putting land in crops if it could cause run off onto the national forest land. I cut some timber off my land to build my house with and the wonderful forestery agent stopped by and started giving me the 5th degree. I ask if he had a warrent or was charging me with something. He said "not at this time" so I told him he was tresspassing and to get the f*** off my land. He got really fussy then but when I told him either leave or I would feel he was a threat and would defend myself he left and has never came back. It was all over me not windrowing the tops of the trees I was falling. I didn't want to row them up cause I was going to cut them up for firewood and didn't want to have to fight my way through them. I hope that the sackett family nails the EPA to the wall. On the EPA they mad at me for using oil treated fence post on my land, my grandpap was living then and sent them on there way about the same way that I did. People should stand up for their land, it is their land, not the goves or the publics, and if they want to build a house in their swamp that is there bussiness and best wishes to them.
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  #7  
Old 02/27/11, 11:28 AM
 
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I'd like to see the other side of that. Why did they start building without permits in the first place? If they had the necessary permits and this happened that's one thing--If they thought that they didn't need them because they weren't in the city , that's another thing. The Priest Lake area has some unique problems/restrictions and I can't believe that they didn't know it. I would think if they honestly didn't know what they could do with the land they would be suing the former owner.
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  #8  
Old 02/27/11, 12:06 PM
 
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I've never lived anywhere that you can " do what you want " with a wet lands. They are highly protected, whether you own them or not.
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  #9  
Old 02/27/11, 12:23 PM
 
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The wetlands in Oregon are all "designated". They are on maps, so any buyer should be able to find out if their purchase is designated wetlands or not. I'd be really surprised if it isn't so in Idaho, too.

Building must have a permit and if the land is close to water there are more restrictions and occasionally, it is required to have an environmental survey before permits are issued. And golly gee, the government won't allow you to do anything you want with your own land, but all the people downstream from you don't have to live with polluted water, either. So you won't hear complaints about it in Oregon.

Those poor abused folks in Idaho who dug up their lot, apparently without a permit would be screaming out of the other side of their mouth if someone moved a 5,000 head hog farm right next door. Then they'd be wanting the government to control what got built.
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Old 02/27/11, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf mom View Post
Just another bit of fearmongering.

If it was wetlands, the buyers had the responsibility to find out through a title research before they bought, and they would have known.

If not, they would have a law suit against the title company, the seller and the Realtor - if there was one - for non-disclosure.

You cant find whats not there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NEUrbanHmstdr View Post
This is my thought as well. It's comparable to buying land not zoned for commercial real estate and then getting upset when you get come down on for starting to be build a commercial property there. .
Not if it wasnt classified.


Quote:
Originally Posted by countryboy84 View Post
they raise a real fuss about putting land in crops if it could cause run off onto the national forest land. .
Id feel the same way if it was my land keep your runoff to yourself.
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  #11  
Old 02/27/11, 12:37 PM
 
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Sounds like a matter of an "irresistable force" meeting an "immovable object" to me. There are always two sides to a case going that high up the system, with help from an advocacy group. Yes it's my property, but I wouldn't make it mine if I knew there were strings like that attached.

geo
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  #12  
Old 02/27/11, 03:04 PM
 
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Just goes to prove that you never really own your own land.
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  #13  
Old 02/27/11, 03:58 PM
 
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WND spin aside, here is the actual case.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal...854/920100917/

Either the Sacketts knew the land was protected and altered it anyway, or they were not informed, that it was CWA protected, when they purchased the property.

It's likely "someone" knew it was protected.

Good luck, serving the EPA a beat-down.
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  #14  
Old 02/27/11, 04:13 PM
 
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Something farmers have had to deal with since the mid 1980's.

Very old news, been that way for decades.

I'm no sure I agree with it all the time, but how it is and has been for a long time now?

--->Paul
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  #15  
Old 02/27/11, 04:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambler View Post
Something farmers have had to deal with since the mid 1980's.

Very old news, been that way for decades.

I'm no sure I agree with it all the time, but how it is and has been for a long time now?

--->Paul
Classic case of being above the law. They filled in 1/2 of a residential lot that obviously has a water course on it, and was in close proximity to a lake, and did so without a permit. As Paul states, that BS hasn't flown in several decades. Issues like this are resolved with good LOCAL engineers and surveyors who are well aware of what will fly, what isn't ever going to be allowed, and how to get all the ducks in a row BEFORE you start filling in wetlands. My guess would be that this is a case of a guy who doesn't like following the rules and decided to do whatever he felt like doing, and now it's somebody elses fault that he can't do what he wants.
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  #16  
Old 02/27/11, 05:39 PM
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The EPA already had jurisdiction over the land when it was declared part of the wetlands. I have no idea why the buyers weren't aware of the wetlands status of the land, but the EPA was simply enforcing its rules, which it has a duty to do.

I don't know if an engineered fill of 1/2 acre required a local construction permit or not, but if it did the county would have certainly stopped it before it was started. But in any case, knowing the status of the land is the obligation of the owner.

This story reminds me of people who buy property at auction with liens or taxes owed against it, then pretend there was no way they could have known. Heck, the recorder and treasurer records are online more times than not these days.

I simply don't understand someone not doing diligence on a real property transaction. That's what happened in this case.
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  #17  
Old 02/27/11, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly Mckee View Post
I'd like to see the other side of that. Why did they start building without permits in the first place?
Maybe permits weren't required. Permits are not required to build in many places.

Maybe they weren't really wet lands. Government lackies sometimes make things up in retrospect so they can force an issue. They have to justify their jobs or their departments get cut. Bringing in money through fines is one way they support their budgets.

This is real. If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
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  #18  
Old 02/27/11, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by highlands View Post
This is real. If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
I'm not getting your attitude. Do you want the EPA to not enforce the protection of wetlands?
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  #19  
Old 02/27/11, 06:48 PM
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Where I live, designated "wetland" is very common; the general public is well aware. I am a Managing Broker here in WA. I use a great Title CO, and each Title Report is reviewed carefully. In addition, I go over them, too. We are looking for issues, like un-disclosed Easements, Wetland delineations, etc... If my Clients miss issues, I inform them. I always recommend Feasibility Studies to be completed prior to a purchase. Getting an approved BSA is wise before Closing!

All that said, how did we go about purchasing our property? We made sure there were zero Easements, that it was Fee Simple Absolute, and absolutely NO WETLAND on this property. There was an issue that needed cleared up prior to Closing, so we waited patiently for that to be resolved. Then, we closed on our property.

I believe Buyers should be very cautious and have all Feasibility studies done before purchasing property. In some cases, I understand EPA protection. In others, an abuse of the powers. In this couple's case? I'd like to know how they could have purchased a property without knowing it was Wetland, didn't they even look at the Plat Map, read their Title Report, or even have a BSA done? Sorry, sounds lame, more to it I think.
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  #20  
Old 02/27/11, 06:55 PM
 
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I knew of someone who bought a piece of land that had been a dump of sorts. There was a little stream running through it. He decided to clean up the old tires, take the trash to the landfill, bring in some topsoil to clean up the mess that was ground in.... and promptly was served with a million dollar lawsuit from the EPA for disturbing wetlands. DISTURBING WETLANDS????? It was a dump!!!
I talked to a Realtor friend of mine and he said you have to get a permit to do anything on property that has water, whether it be a lake, pond, stream, or bog. I think I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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