question regarding lot

Ifistav · #1 02/14/11, 09:28 AM

Hi, I post here once in a while, mostly with questions, because I'm not a homesteader yet, so I can't give much advice.
We're looking for a home, where we can live a quiet life, and have some animals down the road, as well as a garden. We saw this beautiful log house, located on 5+ acres of wooded land. The issue though is that the land is mostly hilly. Right now there aren't any structures where the animals could be housed, and I don't know where we could put them. Is there a secret to building a barn in a hilly area? Or is it going to cost us an arm and a leg to make it work?
I'd love your opinions please!

Thanks,

Ifi

sisterpine · #2 02/14/11, 09:38 AM

You are likely going to have to excavate for the barn to make a flat spot and the foundation. Here in MT we excavated a couple of years ago for a garage and wood shed and the bill was 4K. Don't know what that amount would buy in your area, sis

Callieslamb · #3 02/14/11, 10:38 AM

Is there a spot for a garden or is it all wooded? Will you have to excavate for that too? I'm sure there's a way to build a barn on a slope but it might cost more than leveling out some ground. Bulldozers aren't that expensive in the long-run since they can work pretty fast.

SFM in KY · #4 02/14/11, 10:55 AM

I've seen a lot of "bank barns" with the hillside partially dug away and the dirt used to bring the lower side up level with the upper/bank part.

Depending on what the climate is where you live, I expect one issue might be water runoff from the upper side hill and seepage into the barn. If you're in a cold climate, the bank would help insulate the barn ... I've seen quite a few of these in the colder western states and in New England.

jwal10 · #5 02/14/11, 10:55 AM

Where are you at, if cold, a bank barn is great, built like a daylight basement. Snug and warm. Garden in raised beds on a south slope warms up faster....James

jwal10 · #6 02/14/11, 10:56 AM

OOPPS great minds....James

Windy in Kansas · #7 02/14/11, 11:13 AM

Depending upon where you live you may not need much of an animal shelter at all, and of course it depends upon the kind of livestock. Range cattle in the south probably wouldn't need any at all other than a windbreak for braking the wind when it is chilly and rainy.

Smaller critters of course would need something but then they wouldn't need much of a level spot for a small building.

Welcome to the forums if I've not done so before.

texican · #8 02/14/11, 11:26 AM

You don't have to have absolutely level ground for a barn. If your making a pole barn, you sink all your posts, then throw your ground floor framing up level... leaving a couple feet on the low side... this way chickens can scratch around under there, preventing termites from becoming a problem. Loafing areas and tractor/implement storage can be on sloped ground... If your uphill side is very long, you'd need to do some ditching on the uphill side to keep water from rushing through with every rainfall.

I have plenty of flat land, but prefer to live in my slope'y section. I sited my main barn as close to the top of a hill as I could...

goatlady · #9 02/14/11, 01:02 PM

More important than the barn siteing is would there be enough open area for the pasture you would need for the animals? It takes several years after logging off land and pulling stumps and then working and seeding the ground to get decent pasture for grazing animals.

ErinP · #10 02/14/11, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifistav

Hi, I post here once in a while, mostly with questions, because I'm not a homesteader yet, so I can't give much advice.
We're looking for a home, where we can live a quiet life, and have some animals down the road, as well as a garden. We saw this beautiful log house, located on 5+ acres of wooded land. The issue though is that the land is mostly hilly. Right now there aren't any structures where the animals could be housed, and I don't know where we could put them. Is there a secret to building a barn in a hilly area? Or is it going to cost us an arm and a leg to make it work?
I'd love your opinions please!

Thanks,

Ifi

Several options:

#1 Have access to a skid steer and do your own dirt work. (This was the route we went with along with)

#2. Pole shed like texican described.

#3. Barn with a daylight basement type of setup. They were fairly common around here, once upon a time. It's basically a barn with the first "floor" dug into a hillside, the non-dirt side framed in, and a framed loft of some sort. With the advent of steel buildings, though, most people don't do this type of barn anymore.

#4. As Windy mentioned, it depends on what your stock is and where you are whether are not you truly need a barn.
I'm guessing on five acres, you're probably not going to be running cattle (which, even when we lived in North Dakota, did not have anything more than shelterbelts) and anything smaller than that can get away with a small shed-sized structure.

The only time we ever plan to put stock in our barn/shop will be when we have bucket calves.
The chickens have a coop, and the horses and cattle have several nice draws where they can ride out nasty winter weather.

Michael W. Smith · #11 02/14/11, 03:39 PM

As has been said - it all depends on what livestock you are talking about.

Horses and cows - with no pasture, you will have expensive food bills.
Goats - Depending on how much underbrush you have it may work for a while.
Pigs - Wouldn't really matter.
Chickens - Wouldn't really matter.

A "hilly" area can be utilized quite well for like a chicken / pig / goat pens. The back of the building and sides could be into the bank - while the front and part of the sides aren't - more insulating value for either winter or summer. (A small bull dozer will quickly make a path / dug out area.)

But which side of the hill of you on? On the South facing slope - you get lots of sun. On the North - not so much and snow and ice last longer.

Use the "hilly" land as a bargaining tool to get a better price - tell the land owner "Well, there is enough land we are looking for, but the hills (and if they are steep so much the better), are a detriment and not so sure it's what we are looking for, as the use is limited."

oregon woodsmok · #12 02/14/11, 06:22 PM

Hills might mean drainage problems, as in water running down into your house and yard. Always learn where the water is going to go.

Leveling a building site in a hill can get mighty expensive if you've got rock. If you cut into the hillside, you have to deal with moisture issues in your walls and foundations. Also you have to deal with the weight of wet soil above your building when it rains. (I'm telling you to get an engineer to approve your building plans)

You can make due, but if you are starting from scratch and want to homestead, look for something suitable.

I suggest that you make a list of what you must have and what you'd like to have, and then compare any property to that list. It's too easy to fall in love with a house or a view and then discover you've bought a place that is miserable to live in.

Pony · #13 02/14/11, 06:59 PM

If/when we ever build another house, we'll bank it AND the barns. ALL the structures will be built-in to the ground. Makes much more sense, especially out here on the prairie.

**clovis** · #14 02/14/11, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifistav

Hi, I post here once in a while, mostly with questions, because I'm not a homesteader yet, so I can't give much advice.

Just remember, homesteading is a way of life and a mindset, not a street address.

willowworker · #15 02/14/11, 09:11 PM

As said above, earth bermed barn...with back side facing the north....raised beds on south facing hill.... Enjoy your journey...........

Mulegirl · #16 02/14/11, 09:11 PM

Out of curiosity, how hilly is "hilly" in the area you're talking about? The property my mom is deeding to my husband and I is hilly, but it's a relatively gentle slope that we should be able to bank up fairly well for animal shelters. Are you talking a 20 degree hilly or a 40 degree hilly?

Ifistav · #17 02/15/11, 09:51 AM

Thank you everyone for your responses, I knew I came to the right place, you all gave me very valuable information. As far as what animals we'd like to have, horses, chickens, and perhaps goats and pigs. I don't know if we can handle cows for now, we're novices (read, haven't got a clue, lol). And as far as weather, it's in PA, so the animals will need shelter in the winter.
I think we'll pass on this property and keep looking. It's been a long search so far, almost a year, but we want to be 100% comfortable with the place we pick, so I know that place is out there waiting for us

Ifi

ronbre · #18 02/15/11, 10:00 AM

is the house on the upside of the hills or would water run down into your house..don't want that..but if it is upside it would be a good possibility..

you can build things like chicken and rabbit coops with them on poles over open areas as long as there is a flat area where they can get in and out..sometimes that makes it easier to remove the manure when there is an open area beneath..just rake it out..

as for larger animals I would imagine goats would work ok as they can climb easily up and down hills, however horses and cows might not do as well on the hilly land..

myself I would consider what you want from a piece of land and make a page with pros on one side and cons on the other and weigh it all against the price and then make an informed decision..

gardens can easily be planted on wooded land if you are doing edible forest type gardening..is there SOME open edgy areas??

#19 02/15/11, 11:23 AM

Cold air is heavier than warm so it runs downhill. Don't build in a hollow.

oregon woodsmok · #20 02/15/11, 11:54 AM

One more thing to think about.

If it is really hilly, you might get erosion problems if you have heavy livestock walking up and down it.

If it is really hilly, you might get very tired of walking uphill every time you need to do anything with the homestead. That is especially true as you get older and if it is a lifetime home, steep hills are hard on your knees.