Couple of simple questions: schedules and fencing

[dragonjaze]

I've been reading this forum for a while now, and I wince every time I see people who say they are getting up at 4 am to go do chores outside...

I'm not a morning person. Never have been, never will be, and this corporate job is killing me.

I've always worked better with shift work, and that's what I plan to get back into when I am finally able to get a piece of property and such.

My question is: will livestock adjust to whatever schedule you keep, as long as it's consistent? Goats don't HAVE to be fed at 6 am to survive, right? Food at 10 am every day has to be just as good as food before dawn!

My indoor pets have always been able to adjust to a different feeding schedule, as long as they had food at roughly the same time each day.

My other question is about fencing. Do "cattle panels" make good one-size-fits-all perimeter fencing? I know a full perimeter fence of panels will be more expensive than wire or woven fencing, but I like many things about the idea of using panels instead. I'm thinking of the kind with graduated openings-smaller on bottom and getting bigger as you go up.

Would this type of fence work for just about anything a small homestead would need? Keeping dogs in, keeping other dogs out, goats, pigs, possibly small cattle, etc?

[Jenn]

I've heard (have only dogs and cats now, and never cattle) you can milk cows at 10 am and 10 pm (Logsden book but he was reporting or speculating IIRC not speaking of his own cattle). Dunno if you can milk them at 10 am and 5 pm- bet not- but some milk only once a day.

Looking forward to other replies

[rider]

Animals get used to a schedule of feedings, milking what ever your are doing and they adapt pretty well if this needs to change, the milk cow or milk goats will get uncomfortable between milkings but animals adapt very well to us humans schedules as for the cattle panel fence hey if you have the dollars i dont see why you couldnt use it for all your fencing needs. I would love to have more panels around but until i win lottery will have to wait. good luck with your plans

[Bearfootfarm]

Do "cattle panels" make good one-size-fits-all perimeter fencing?

They work well but are one of the most expensive ways of fencing

Woven wire will do the same thing much easier and cheaper

[Gymno]

I don't think there is any magic on times, but animals do thrive on "routine". If you are going to feed breakfast at 10 AM, then try to keep that time each day.

I am researching adding a cattle operation to our ranch, and a very well regarded cattle mentor on this forum says that it doesn't make any difference when he moves his cattle from field to field, but to try and do it at the same time each day.

On the fence issue, we looked at cattle panels to fence the core of our ranch. The panels were a HUGE additional cost, and almost as difficult to install compared to the wire mech field fence ( with the varied size openings ). They are MUCH heavier to move around. The advantage they have though is that they are portable. If you are building a permanent fence, i wouldn't spend the extra dough for them.

I am with you....i could never do chores at 4AM!!!

my best,
Jim

[Patt]

Cattle panels don't work on much except cows. Small pigs, baby goats and smaller dogs can all fit through the holes. So can all poultry.

Feeding or milking isn't really a big problem if you want to start at a later time in the day but your animals will wake at dawn and they will need access to food and water when they wake up. So you will have to figure out how to make that work for them. They also want to go to sleep most of the time at dark so milking your cow at 10pm won't work. About the only time they stay up and keep eating at night is when it is super hot in the Summer.

[dragonjaze]

Patt, I'm thinking of this kind of panel:

I guess they are properly called hog panels when the mesh is different sizes?

Wouldn't that keep in/out pretty much anything except poultry?

[Rusty'sDog]

I would say that for fencing, your perimeter fence should be a "real" fence, but the cattle/hog panels would be fine for cross fencing. (Generally, the cattle panels are one size mesh from bottom to top, whereas the hog panels start small and get larger as you go up. They use more material to build, hence they are heavier, and costlier.) If you are doing rotational grazing, the panels are easy to configure to any shape/size paddock you desire. You do not need to create a complete paddock system at once, but you will need enough panels to enclose two fields...the one they are in, and the one you will rotate them into next. Then take the panels from field #1 and move it to field #3 once they are in #2.

If you look at the cost per panel, plus 2 t-posts it is do-able for chickens, or a pair of hogs. If you are thinking cattle, it will probably take 6 sets of cattle (12 years) to pay for the fencing. Ouch!

[Rusty'sDog]

You posted that while I was typing. Yes, that is a hog panel. It will work for just about anything. Adult chickens will mostly stay inside of that (as long as they have plenty to eat inside), but chicks would disappear as quick as Henrietta could brood them.

[Patt]

Hog panels are usually only 3 ft tall. So it wouldn't keep in anything bigger including dogs. We use hog panels for the pigpen and our terrier goes through the holes and the bigger digs can jump it easily.

[Patt]

Our outside perimeter fence is what they call dogwire down here. Small enough holes that nothing can get through it including chickens. We used cattle panels for inside fencing back when we had cows and now we use it for our bigger goats. We use the hog panels for the pigs.

[Alice In TX/MO]

The fence question depends on the thickness of your wallet! We have those kinds of panels around our goat yard. LOVE them!

[Mavors]

I'd also be wondering about panels walking away from a perimeter fence. I was think of using panels as well, but the cost and how easy for someone to steal in areas out of sight would have me checking fencing daily.

Still trying to decide on fencing here, but will prob go with woven goat fencing for the smaller holes....wonder if that will prevent a chicken from going through it...over now that's another prob lol. Good luck with your fencing.

Mav

[motdaugrnds]

Dragonjaze, those are some good questions. I worried about them myself back in 1995 when we first got on our place. This is what I have learned that might be of use to you.

We have a small herd of dairy goats; and as long as I am consistent with the food they eat and "near" the time the eat it, they have done fine. (At times I have over-slepted and they have let me know! LOL)

The fencing is as important here as is the soil and vegetative life. Since we keep all our animals fairly near each other, there are certain things we do to fencing that others probably would see as overkill. Example: I like the cow panels a lot, even though putting them up requires quite a bit more than just stapeling; and yes, the ones we used have a graduated hole size (smaller at bottom). It keeps in everything we have except for fowel (and baby goats), which can squeese right through. (Must remember it is "welded" and, if it is placed where the animals will be wanting to "stand" on it, will eventually come apart. (Our bucks ruined a piece of ours until we learned about this.) It is very important to know what is going to be on what side of it so as to know how to attach it to posts and what to put on each side, i.e. We use it to keep the bucks away from the does; thus, it is on the side of the posts that the bucks are on. The other side, however, has to be supported as well because the does flirt with the bucks and want to stand on it; thus, we simply ran some 2x4s (3 of them) along their side of those panels for them to stand on (also to keep them from rubbing against the panel). The same thing applies with those heavy-duty iron gates. We attach either chicken wire or 2x4 holded wire to those to keep the dogs in and the chickens (also baby goats) out of certain area.

Goodness, the cow panels I am talking about are 48" tall and 16 ft long. They are closer together at the bottom than at the top and One T-post (or wooden post) at each end just won't do the job!

Cannot speak to pigs nor cattle! However, I agree with the others that using cow/hog panels for your farm's "parameter" is not something that would be needed. The "woven" 48" regular fencing is best for that.

I must add, if I had the cash, I would "add" a row of 3 ft "rabbit" wire (buried 2 ft into concrete) on the "inside" of our present parameter fencing, placing it ALL AROUND THE PARAMETER OF OUR FARM as well as all around the parameter of our garden. I would do this because I would like to raise rabbits for our dogs to eat. I would simply let them run loose "inside" the homestead.

[artificer]

Some prices...
Hog pannel $25/16' 34" tall

Field fence $150/330' 39" tall

The pannels are twice the cost of a decent field fence. You're still going to need posts, so thats pretty much a wash.

The only reason I can see in using the panels is for temporary fences, or ones that you plan on moving. You can get the same vertical spacing with field fencing.

Michael

[jill.costello]

In my experience, hog panels/cattle panels are SO STOUT, that stray dogs and YOUR dogs can CLIMB them! My woven field fence has just enough "wiggle" to discourage this behavior.... I also agree that in some areas, A perimeter fence made of panels would look like portable $$$ to a savvy thief....

That said, the panels make EXCELLENT semi-permanent interior fencing of smaller pens; capped t-posts every 7', panels, and wire to tie it all together with about an 8" overlap of the panels at a t-post. Modify to your needs, and if you ever "re-configure", it's easy to untie, move panels, and pull up the tee posts to re-use at a different spot.

[vallyfarm]

I buy the panels that are 4"x4" and have raised goats, sheep, cows, horses, chickens, and ducks. All but the young fowl are contained by this panel. However, these are used for temp. use only. For your perimiter fence take a look at Horse Fencing. It comes like regular woven wire fencing, but much tighter space size. I've seen it come in at 6 ft. high. This would prevent anything much larger than a snake thru. And rember that the perimiter fence should work to keep critters out as much as in. Stray dogs, foxes, weezels, etc. can do a lot of damage to most baby critters including cows. Mike

[Beeman]

The panels you posted are all stock type panels. Yes they will work for containment, yes they are expensive, no they don't make a good perimeter fence generally. Why? you ask, usually people set them up with T posts and they look sturdy but stock will "try" the fence and step and rub on it. The fence will eventiually get loose and fall and you will be spending your time repairing fence. I look at fence as long term and do all I can to prevent maintenance. I have neighbors that always have animals getting out and are always patching their fence.

[Bearfootfarm]

I guess they are properly called hog panels when the mesh is different sizes?

Those are "combination panels" and are 52" tall
Hog panels have 4" squares and are shorter

[Mrs. Mucket]

Our schedule often requires staying up till midnight or later--rarely awake at 4 AM!! We don't have dairy livestock so can't speak to milking schedules, but we top off feed and water in the evening and make our first visit to the animals in the mid-to-late morning. This schedule also makes it easier on farmsitters when we are away, as they don't have to rush over to our place first thing in the morning.