... between rock & hard place ...

[motdaugrnds]

We live in a single-wide trailer on 6 acres with a water well. The furnace is oil run by electricity and the trailer is run by electricity as is the water from the well. We are "dependant" on electricity!

This has come to be a rather frightening situation that we would like to rectify as money is, indeed, an issue. Yes, we know of generators (need gas that is skyrocketing in price), solar panels (sound expensive & complicated for our situation) & even windmills (very unclear as to using this). David has even experimented with magnets in an attempt to get us off the electric grid. We have considered a wood stove; however, our wood supply is extremely limited, which means it would wind up being an additional expense just to buy the wood.

I am hoping someone in here can think "outside" the box enough to help us find an alternative way of heating the house and running appliances (refrig, freezer, air & maybe furnace).

[The Paw]

I am no expert, but from what I have read, going off the grid is rarely a viable economic proposition. Set up expenses are significant, and normally you have to either replace appliances (i.e. a super insulated fridge that runs on direct current) or do without an energy hog like air conditioning. Sometimes alternative energy systems are more affordable when compared to bringing new service in from a distance. It almost never is when the site is already serviced by the grid. If you can't afford wood for a stove, you probably can't afford to convert to geothermal.

I would suggest considering the following strategy: (a) get a generator to cope with emergencies for when the power goes down, (b) reduce overall power consumption by increasing insulation and using higher efficiency applicances, and (c) look into passive solar heaters as an option to reduce your usage of the furnace. If you ask SolarGary i think he has a lot of knowledge on these heaters.

[April]

Maybe think in terms of smaller living spaces. Close up everything in the house except kitchen, living and bathroom and heat just that area with wood. I bet you could supply a winter's worth of firewood for tiny living quarters just by cleaning up downed trees for people. Plus, you can cook on it. Add a manual pump to put on the water well in case of emergency and you're set.

[TxMex]

Wood is available....you just have to work on it year round. Pallets are often free and they are made of hard wood. Construction crews throw away tons of wood that should be available for free if you haul it off.....saves them some money on dumpster fees. Talk to someone at the electric company about getting firewood from clearing power lines. Talk to tree services. Offer to barter. When I had a milk cow I got amazing things in trade for homemade butter, buttermilk and cheese. If there is logging anywhere near you....find out where they are cutting and approach the land owner about cutting up the tops. The hardest part is approaching folks and asking...and being able to take no for an answer.

You have 6 acres.....grow corn. This can be used in a bio-mass stove. I have a wood pellet/bio-mass stove. Only problem is that it uses electricity to run the fan. As soon as finances allow I'll be getting a solar panel and a battery to run it when the power is off.

For the well. Get a hand pump. Better yet, do rainwater collection. I have lived with rainwater collection for years and really prefer it. If I could do it in the desert then it should be viable just about anywhere. My new place here will be fitted for rainwater collection this summer...even though(or maybe especially) I'm on public water.

[Harry Chickpea]

To repeat what The Paw says - off-grid is NOT cheaper or easier unless you make some drastic changes. Most folks are too hooked on power and heat and the change can be wrenching. Also, be aware that if you have insurance, you won't after changing over to alternate systems of energy and heat. You'll get dropped or end up spending much more.

If all you are concerned about is an event that might last a week or two at most, then a cheapo Harbor freight $110 generator will keep a refrigerator and a few lights going. Something around 2500 watts will run a gas furnace, but you'll need a lot more than that for a heatpump.

For backup heat, we have both propane and wood. Unvented heaters designed for inside use are fairly inexpensive and simple. Wood is cheap if you have your own, but the cost of the setup can be a killer.

FWIW, this is not the time to be considering such things in many parts of the country. Preps are done long before any immediate need.

I know you are on a budget and probably can't afford all I'm about to suggest but check the second paragraph.

I plan to build a super-insulated house, perhaps straw bale. It will be a passive solar house as well. Electricity will be from a generator running on wood gas and a battery storage bank. The fridge and the freezer will only be run part time, when the generator is running. Solar pannels may be added to charge the batteries, if their price comes down. You can get very efficient appliances to reduce the electricity demand. A DC well pump is more efficient than a 120/240 volt one.

I plan to set up a 55 gallon barrel wood stove surrounded by a thermal mass made of cement and native rocks. You build a hot, fast fire a couple times a day and it warms up the thermal mass which then gives off heat slowly. A hot fast fire doesn't create much cresote. My old homesteader neighbor has this set up and it has worked fine for 70 years, even here in growing zone 3. He burns pine and popple, which is what grows here.

A geothermal heat pump will run off the batteries to fill in the gaps, like early morning. I don't anticipate the heat pump running more than a few hours a day.

[susieM]

we heat with socks and soup

[sunflower-n-ks]

If you have plenty of wind, check into the wind mill (turbine) I don't have one, but knew someone that did. I hear that some power companies will buy any extra energy your turbine produces. (your meter will run backwards during those times). Sometimes there are gov, programs to help with the costs. Worth checking it out.

[7thswan]

Right now you could turn off your breakers, if you had a way to heat your house and make sure the water lines are freeze proof. If possible drain all the lines and use just one. lets say you just turn the breaker on for a certain amount of time a week to get water. Figure out a way and place stor that water. If you have a woodstove you could heat water on it. If you salvage a Propane hot water heater from a old travel trailer, you could use that if you put it up high enough to use gravity feed. Also you can get a frefer out of a Rv that uses both elec and propane.Course with it being cold out you could make a "cold space" in your house-and save on gas for the refer all together. They make many different 12 volt appliances for travel nowadays. Anyone that drives a Vehicle could set up an extra battery or 2/3/4 and drive up to the house and have a plug in that will supply you with 12 light bulbs and even a radio or small TV inside. You could even make it so that a batter or 2 could be carried inside after it gets charged on the way to work or any travel. If you had the extra cash -a couple of batteries for tractor trailers could be put in your trunk and be charged there. You can buy a barrel kit for heat, the pipe going thru the roof would be the only big expense, but in a trailer, probably 1 -3 foot section would be enough as long as it gets a good draft. As far as wood, check out your local road commission. You will be surprised that one you get used to looking for wood,you will see it all over.

[motdaugrnds]

April, I've given much thought to adding a "manual pump to put on the water well in case of emergency". Our well casing is 4" and the well is only 79 ft deep. It has a pitless adapter in it with easy access. I bought a well bucket that would go down this 4" well casing along with a 100 ft of nylon cord. What "manual pump" would you suggest?

TxMex, that is an interesting idea, i.e. growing corn to use in a "bio-mass stove" with a "solar panel & battery to use when electricity is off. I will research this to see exactly what that is and how it might be set up in our situation. Thank you.

Nimrod, I read and re-read the second paragraph of your response and still have no idea what you said. I do understand you have a 55 gal barrel that you have surrounded with cement and native rock. I am guessing the barrel is metal and you put wood in it to set fire to. Do yo leave the end open? I cannot see placing something like this in our trailer or even in our barn as too many possibilities of something getting set on fire; and I doubt you would suggest I set up something that would be so dangerous. Thus, I really don't know what you are suggesting here.

Sunflower-n-ks, that is one of the things David was experimenting with, i.e. a windmill (turbine) to generate electricity. He even tried to make one; but it didn't work. Can you direct me to some site that might talk about it?

7thswan, what is a "frefer" that would come out of a RV that uses both electric and propane? If I'm understanding you correctly, I would need one with a 12-volt appliance..."battery"?? ... Also, I will need to google "barrel kit" and seeing what it is exactly and how it might be useful.

Thank you all for information.

[PD-Riverman]

Right now for heat you can pick up one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/BLUE-FLAME-NATUR...item1c16d7db0d or something similiar. I picked up one with thermostat, like new condition for $100, mine has no fan so it Requires no electricity and I Love it. Think about a wood heater for the future, you can build a "wood heater room" on to your trailer for not a lot of money if you look for "Deals". If you are going to keep this 6 acres, plant some trees NOW for future fire wood. There are alot of things you can do to cut back on electricity usage. Good Luck!!

Originally Posted by motdaugrnds

We live in a single-wide trailer on 6 acres with a water well. The furnace is oil run by electricity and the trailer is run by electricity as is the water from the well. We are "dependant" on electricity!

This has come to be a rather frightening situation that we would like to rectify as money is, indeed, an issue. Yes, we know of generators (need gas that is skyrocketing in price), solar panels (sound expensive & complicated for our situation) & even windmills (very unclear as to using this). David has even experimented with magnets in an attempt to get us off the electric grid. We have considered a wood stove; however, our wood supply is extremely limited, which means it would wind up being an additional expense just to buy the wood.

I am hoping someone in here can think "outside" the box enough to help us find an alternative way of heating the house and running appliances (refrig, freezer, air & maybe furnace).

[Shygal]

If you can afford the oil and electric to run your oil fired furnace, you can definitely afford to buy wood instead!

I paid 330 dollars for 100 gallons of fuel oil last week.

[texican]

Buying wood? WhatyoutalkingaboutWillis?

If you have any free time, and can 'network', you should be able to get all of your wood for free. Never cut your own wood, when there's wood elsewhere. Now if you live out on the prairie, I can see that being an issue... but if your in a timbered area of the country, shouldn't be.

Northern tool and others sell the door and the stove pipe adapter to turn a metal 55 gallon barrel into a wood stove. If you surround the stove with a thermal mass made of rock and cement it won't get so hot as to be dangerous. It will release it's heat slowly over the hours and keep your house warm. My neighbor only builds a fast burning fire in his two or three times a day. His house is nice and warm. If you can get your wood for free from the sources suggested by others here, you will have a very small electric bill. You can get the barrell from Craigs list for cheap, the kit for about $60, and the rock for free, so the total investment should be arround $100

The only problem to this is you will have to support the thermal mass. I forgot you have a mobile home. You may be able to reinforce from the floor down to solid ground.

[pheasantplucker]

I've supplemented my heat with wood using anywhere between 1.5 and 4 cords of wood per year, for about twenty years. I think I 've bought wood one year. Everytime there's a big storm in our area...you'll find me out cutting up downed trees and hauling them away...(just the hardwoods of course). I get my wood for no cost other than gas for a chain saw and for hauling the wood to my place, and some sweat equity from splitting and stacking it. Go with wood.

[7thswan]

Sorry . a refer is a refrigerator, they run on alternate power.

[just_sawing]

If zoning will permit I would build or buy an out door furnace. People like me will give you your firewood if you will come and get it. The catch is from May to Aug only. I burn it to get rid of it on the Sawmill. With a out door furnace you can burn more undesirable species like ceder and poplar (I do this)
Your trailer also can be improved with natural wind breaks and insulation under the trailer.
Your out door furnace also can help the homestead by preheating the garden beds for seeds.

[7thswan]

Originally Posted by just_sawing

If zoning will permit I would build or buy an out door furnace. People like me will give you your firewood if you will come and get it. The catch is from May to Aug only. I burn it to get rid of it on the Sawmill. With a out door furnace you can burn more undesirable species like ceder and poplar (I do this)
Your trailer also can be improved with natural wind breaks and insulation under the trailer.
Your out door furnace also can help the homestead by preheating the garden beds for seeds.

In this area the pipe to get that heat to the house underground-11 dollars a foot.

[motdaugrnds]

PD-Riverman, that is an interesting idea. I will check out that site and see if it is something we can implement here. Yes we have, indeed, considered a wood heater; and of course we are going to keep the 6 acres. (It is "one" tract of land that our trailer sits on, i.e. our homestead and is completely paid for. I am thinking some of our neighbors might let us cut up their trees that have fallen over and are just lying there rotting.)....just checked that site out. It looks like a portable heater that uses propane. We have one that uses the same oil our furnace does. Only problem in using it is that it requires 3 ft on each side for safety concerns.

Shygal, You are fortunate to have paid only $330 for 100 gallons of fuel oil. Our oil is costing us 700-800 every couple of months throughout the winter months; and this is one of the reasons we are looking for an alternative way to heat our trailer. This is simply too costly for us, causing much hardship.

Nimrod, yes our trailer is a single-wide (12' x 65 '). It does not sit on level ground. It sits on colums of block with one end of the trailer being 3 ft off ground and other end being 5-1/2 ft off ground. (Our living area is in the middle of this trailer with bedrooms at each end.) Knocking a hole in one side of this trailer (living room) may be viable (about 4 ft off ground), building the "thermal mass" there up high enough for the metal 55 gallon barrel to sit near level with the floor of our living room. This may be doable, yet this trailer was constructed in 1972 and maintaining structural integrity while doing this is a little frightening.

Oh, ok, "a refer is a refrigerator". 7thswan. Thinking of getting rid of our refrigerator, which is solely electric, at this time just sounds like another complication. I am feeling rather overwhelmed already.

Just sawing, an "outdoor furnace"? How would I connect it to the trailer? (Yes, I have a very good friend who runs a saw mill and I suspect he would let me have what he could and probably more than I would even need each year. I never like to impose; so didn't even think of getting his discarded wood. I think he turns it into chips/dust anyway.) Yes, this trailer already has extra insulation all around its walls. I wouldn't know how to add any to the roof or floor, though David did put in new flooring on top of the old flooring all thru the trailer, which probably helps already. As for wind breaks, yes I would love to have some bushes up near the trailer. We do sit on a knoll; however, just keeping all our animals, creating our orchard & grazing/browsing pastures have been the priority up until now. I had not even given thought to putting up additional fencing around our trailer to keep the goats out so we could grow some trees/bushes for wind breaks. I can see a possibility of doing that, though, on the northeast side of the trailer ... maybe. Our septic system is on that side; so I would need to be cautious as to what I planted. (Don't want tree roots interferring with that disposal system in any way.) Thanks for helping me think of this.

Just read your post swan. $11.00 a foot sounds like a lot; but could well be worth it. Digging into this hard stone ground is not something I would relish; however, bringing that heat into the house thru the floor may be a better way than bringing it in thru the wall. I've been under the trailer only once; but I remember seeing a lot of insulation under there. It would need to be torn apart and redone in a way that would not catch on fire and still stay up. I have no idea how to do this and precious David, though he does all he can, he knows no more than I about such things. It is all rather scary to me.

I do appreciate all the information given me in this thread as we do need to do something!

[suzyhomemaker09]

Not sure which area you live in...but here in Mo. one can get a free permit to harvest wood in National forests...they mark trees that a person can cut and you go cut marked trees...
Of course that would take into consideration if you had a chainsaw and a proper hauling receptacle.