This land is your land, these are your people

[primroselane]

Sales of wood-burning appliances dropped to 235,000 in 2009 from 800,000 in 1999.

TheDailyGreen.com, an online magazine, has advocated replacing all wood-burning fireplaces with electric ones.

While most fireplaces are used far too infrequently to cause any real damage to the environment or people, organizations like the American Lung Association are issuing warnings. The group recommends that consumers avoid wood fires altogether, citing research that names wood stoves and fireplaces as major contributors to particulate-matter air pollution in much of the United States. They also say wood smoke contains some of the same particulates as cigarette smoke. Duh.

At least one lady refuses to enter a home where wood has been burned, even infrequently. Her husband scouts out any place they go in advance, to be sure it’s free of fireplaces.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/ga...0fire.html?hpw

Just as surely as cigarette smoking has been outlawed, the time will come when fireplaces are coded out.

[Darren]

The EPA has had a hand in setting rules for wood burners. I'm waiting for them to ban forest fires. Mother Nature causes huge amounts of environmental damage.

Somewhere I saw a "Just Say No! to Volcanoes" bumper sticker.

After the EPA bans forest fires, volcanoes, tornadoes and hurricanes, all God's critters will be safer.

[indypartridge]

Originally Posted by primroselane

Sales of wood-burning appliances dropped to 235,000 in 2009 from 800,000 in 1999.

This is a great example of using numbers manipulatively. 1999 was the big Y2K scare, causing record-setting sales in all sorts of non-electric appliances.

[Bandit]

Lets see , " The New York Times " leads off with a quote from " The Natural Resources Defense Council " If you Google there Biggest Fight lately , You will see that they just lost to the U.S. Navy in the U.S. Supreme Court in there law suit to force the Navy to stop using sonar in there Ships and Subs " as it would cause harm to an unknown number of marine mammals "
They also lifted two restrictions on the Navy imposed by Califunny courts , and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth District .( But I think everyone all ready knows what way they lean) Chief Justice Ginsburg and Souter Dissented , believing that the Navy Should file Environmental Impact Statements before using there sonar in training exercises , not after , as they do now.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/wa...defensecouncil

Gosh I feel all warm and fuzzy now that I know that they are looking out for Me.
Bandit
Ps
As for the smell of wood smoke ? I love it , plus it is a constant warming heat , not hot , then warm , then cold , then hot again , like My present two month old hi efficiency hot air furnace the landlord just installed .

[Batt]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Chief Justice Ginsburg and Souter Dissented ,

She was promoted?

[bergere]

Silly not having some kind of fireplace. The power goes out for days, how does one stay warm?

As for the sonar in there Ships and Subs, there is a new kind of Sonar and they found out in the Puget Sound, it was killing Killer whales and ones that lived...were being driven off. My Husband was stationed up there when this first started to happen.

[Wolf mom]

Lots of places are already "coded out". Just check your No Fire Burn Days codes in many cities. I had to change my wood burning fireplace to gas in Phoenix due to that years ago.

Sure am glad I live where live now.

[bergere]

Am lucky here, only time we have no burn days, is if we have a stretch of dry weather. And burning could end up causing a wild fire.
And there is no ban on Fireplaces.

[kirkmcquest]

Total BS. If they are going to compare the pollution effects of electric vs wood, then they have to compare the TOTAL environmental effect, not just the end use.

Electric is created in electric plants which burn FOSSIL FUEL to create electricity. What are the environmental effects of using fossil fuel? What are the environment effects of obtaining fossil fuel??? (we can go down to the gulf and take a look and they are still finding effects from the exxon spill decades ago).

There is NO doubt that the effects of using electricity and other forms of fossil fuel have had a MUCH greater impact on our environment then wood burning stoves. So why do they attack wood burning and not fossil fuel? Because the oil lobbies would never allow it. The oil lobbies would turn them on their heads and shake them until they shut up. Unfortunately, there are few or no advocates for 'wood burners' which makes them an easy target and allows EPA bureaucrats to justify their jobs.

[Windy in Kansas]

Originally Posted by kirkmcquest

Electric is created in electric plants which burn FOSSIL FUEL to create electricity.

Just a reminder that while most electric generation plants burn fossil fuel there are also several other generation means as well such as nuclear, hydro, wind, solar and other.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electri.../table1_2.html

[Ohiogal]

I just bought and installed a super-clean wood burning stove from Quadrafire. I can't tell you how much less particulates there are coming out of the chimney and in my house. There are stoves out there that pass the stringent EPA regulations for "cleaner" air - just get a qualified stove. And not only do they keep the air clean, but they also help with wood consumption. I'm using 1/2 the wood I was just a week ago, and the house is warmer.

[Horseyrider]

This sort of makes me laugh. I use my fireplace maybe once a week in cold weather. I love the smell of woodsmoke. Yet every day at least twice a day, I see a freight train with over a hundred cars full of coal heading toward the city. Even with all the latest and best in pollution control devices, I can't believe that putting out my little fire is going to make a whit of difference in the face of the pollution generated by power plants.

It probably is well meaning; but it feels like control.

[nodak3]

I've lived where there were no burn days, and it was a good thing.

The lay of the land, the huge number burning wood inefficiently, and an inversion can mean disaster.

BUT the woodburner keeping me toasty now is very legal even on no burn days.

[Betho]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

I just bought and installed a super-clean wood burning stove from Quadrafire. I can't tell you how much less particulates there are coming out of the chimney and in my house. There are stoves out there that pass the stringent EPA regulations for "cleaner" air - just get a qualified stove. And not only do they keep the air clean, but they also help with wood consumption. I'm using 1/2 the wood I was just a week ago, and the house is warmer.

I love our quadrafire stove! It's just a rental but when we buy our house we will put one in. It is so efficient that I can stuff it full of logs at night, turn it down, and in the morning the house is nice & warm with coals in the stove.

[City Bound]

I love wood stoves and I love the smell of a wood fire. I hope this adversion to wood stoves doesnt go to an extreme.

I dont get it though......burning coal to make electricity makes a lot of pollution that is much more harmful then wood smoke. Where is the sense?

[City Bound]

I thought some stoves have cadalitic converters in then that burn the smoke. Are these stoves also added to the witch hunt's list?

[Our Little Farm]

.......and when the power grid goes down, who's house will these people go to to get warm?

[JuliaAnn]

Quote "The power goes out for days, how does one stay warm"

Why, the government comes and takes care of you!!!

Quote "Where is the sense?"

There *is* none. That's how organizations like this are able to get so far in their misguided and misinformed agendas. Just throw some baloney out there and don't ask people to actually think about it. Just scream hysterically and you'll strike fear into the minds of the thoughtless...

Our stove has a catalyst. It does smoke, but only up to about 500 degrees (which is for approximately half an hour or so, give or take) and then the smoke disappears. We had our stove for 10 years before we had to replace the catalyst (about $125) and we burn about 2 cords a year. When the stove is hot, burning for days at a time, there is generally no smoke as long as the fire doesn't burn down to coals. It's a great stove. The fireplace at the next neighbor's over smokes like fireplaces do.

So I guess they need to ban leaf burning in the fall, too?

Morons.

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by kirkmcquest

Electric is created in electric plants which burn FOSSIL FUEL to create electricity. .

No not all of them do 65% of the country gets their electricity from Coal Fired Power plants. So 35% get their electricity from other methods. But wind power is not the way to go. And Solar is so Inefficient that needs to improve greatly before solar is a viable option. Depending on your situation solar panels can range from 5% to 15%, And no more.
We are at the very least looking at 20 to 40 years before alternative methods are perfective enough to make a difference.

[kirkmcquest]

Originally Posted by arabian knight

No not all of them do 65% of the country gets their electricity from Coal Fired Power plants. So 35% get their electricity from other methods. But wind power is not the way to go. And Solar is so Inefficient that needs to improve greatly before solar is a viable option. Depending on your situation solar panels can range from 5% to 15%, And no more.
We are at the very least looking at 20 to 40 years before alternative methods are perfective enough to make a difference.

Dude, coal is a fossil fuel and emits a lot of pollution. My point is that those calling for a switch to electric over wood-burning for environmental reasons are missing the big picture.

The over-all environmental impact of electric power DWARFS that of wood-burning.

It might be true that SOME people get electric power form cleaner sources but the overwhelming majority of electricity is created by burning fossil fuels. It is complete hypocrisy to point a finger at wood-burners when using electric or other fossil fuel heat. The fact that a thousand tons of coal was burned to bring you your electricity but you never see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.