Brick patio/ walk Q

[Belfrybat]

I have a plethora of used brick and am beginning the preps to lay a small patio and walkway. I'm going to set the bricks on a bed of sand and had planned on brushing the sand down beween the bricks to secure them. My neighbour suggested I used mortar mix to brush between the bricks instead of sand as she said it would hold better. I've never heard of doing this, and can't find any sites that provide instructions using this method rather than just sand.

So, I come here as usual knowing the collective wisdom on this forum will guide me. Your ideas on benefits / disadvantages of using mortar vs. sand to brush down between the bricks please? Laying the bricks on sand is non negiotiable as I've already gotten it delivered.

[MushCreek]

I know it goes against many folks sensibilities, but you want to put down some strong weed killer before the sand and bricks. Or plan on mowing your walk!

[Cabin Fever]

I've never done this before, but I've seen it done a million times on "This Old House" and "Ask This Old House." They have always used sand - actually rock dust - below and between the pavers.

[crispin]

sand is what you want

[jwal10]

We have streets here done as you describe, hold up well. The new green design, to let water percolate back into the water table. Use sand any hard material will heave and crack. Just make sure you have something along the edge to keep the pavers from moving, if the edges move out the sand won't stay in place and everything is lost. We use concrete edging, they also make a plastic edging with long spikes....James


http://sek.us.com/index.php?option=c...d=48&Itemid=58

[L.A.]

Check out polymeric sand.

[Belfrybat]

Thanks, all. I knew I could count on your for advice. Once it's all in place, I'll be using a product that apparently will kill weeds for a year. The city uses it on the cracks in the streets, and I can some free. Yes, I know many will not approve of that, but as someone said, I really don't want to mow the patio and walk.

[mduncn52]

I used to be a landscaper and have laid thousands of square feet of brick. excavate 7 1/2 inches. fill with limestone screenings and hand/power tamp. They will compress to the right depth and give you a solid base for about 30 to 40 years. BTW weeds wont grow through screenings. Use plastic Brickedge to hold the edges in place. Lay lengths of 1 or 1 1/4 inch pipe (think chain link posts) on the screenings. prepare a straight 2x4 about as long as you can comfortably handle. lay the posts almost as far apart as your 2x4 (screed) is long. Dump much sand in between pipes and use screed to level sand to the top of the pipes. As you work your way along pull the pipes you dont need anymore and move them down the line. Take handfulls of sand and toss them into the grooves left by the pipe. gently screed over those areas. DO NOT step on the screeded sand. Start at one end, side, corner, etc. and begin to lay brick. Concrete brick has spacers cast on them and will keep correct spacing for infill. Fired clay brick usually do not and you will have to space them by eye as you go. Kneel on a pad of plywood at least 3'x3' to spread out your weight. Now if you have concrete brick just lay the patio, walk until you're done, then hand/ power tamp the whole thing to bed the bricks. If you are using clay bricks, they will nor generally stand up to power tamping. Have a rubber or nylon mallet with you and every 5 or 6 bricks tap them down with the mallet to bed them. When you have completed laying them you can hand tamp carefully. Take a large straight screwdriver ( that will be scrap when you are done) and walk the whole patio bent over and lever any bricks not quite spaced right into the right spacing. Put your foot on the brick youdon't want to move and move the one next to it. Step back and look for even. if there are lumps here and there the mallet carefully applied will relieve tension and adjust the height of the brick. when you are satisfied with the grade, go buy the finest, DRIEST sand you can get. I used to buy bagged masons sand that had been stored indoors for infill. Dump this all over the patio and using a stiff push broom, take your time and just brush, brush, brush. Back and forth, turn and go the other way, every which direction ( I hope that makes sense). Now hand/power tamp again to settle the infill. Repeat the sanding and sweeping 2 more rounds with tamping in between. Rinse down the patio with a fine mist from the hose and set up the grill.....you're done.
Note: grade patios 1/8 in per foot of run away from the house. Sidewalks should be slightly crowned in the middle to drain to both sides. Always wear leather gloves when laying brick unless you are planning a crime spree after wards (you won't have any finger prints for a couple of weeks), never use mortar. As was mentioned before if you put an immoveable object on top of a moveable base you are inviting trouble. Ooops! back fill soil up the the level of the bricks around the edges and plant grass or landscape it. Hope this helps, sorry so long Mark

[danielsumner]

We have brick courtyard at the Miami Townhouse. It's been there since 1996 and hasn't moved around a bit. The outside edges are anchored in concrete. The first couple of years I sweep a little sand into the cracks, but no more. I do spot spray any weeds with roundup.

Daniel

[Nature_Lover]

mduncn52, thank you for a great post!
Your descriptions and explanations are clear and linear, your post is a great example of why I keep coming back here to learn.

[pheasantplucker]

Back about 1991, I acquired @ 1400 bricks (that had never been touched by mortar). I wanted to build a 16x16 patio using a basket weave pattern. I dug out all the previous clay, jutting stones, etc, down to a depth of @ 7 inches. I calculated the length and width of my bricks and figured out where to place my 2x4s (treated) that served as forms. I then filled in the area with a bunch of sand so that the sand came up to and a little beyond the 2x4s. I wanted the tops of the bricks to be flush with the tops of the 2x4s. You'll have to determine this by seeing how thick your bricks are. After pouring in the sand, I fashioned a long screed out of some left over lumber. Youcan look up what they are and fashion one easily. With a "sawing motion" you run the screed back and forth and it makes sure your sand is level. Then it was a matter of beginning to place the bricks up against each other. I left absolutely no gap between each brick. I know some people leave gaps. I put boards and sheets of plywood down over courses I had completed, so that when I was walking on it, my weight would be more evenly distributed. I then opened a couple of bags of white sand and pushed it around all over the patio. It filled it in nicely. Mine looks good and it has been working for around 20 years now. Good luck.

[Wis Bang 2]

Originally Posted by L.A.

Check out polymeric sand.

That's what they use on Ask This Old House...the polymer binds it together a little more, along w/ the plastic edges held w/ long spikes...

[Belfrybat]

Being old and decrepit, I decided not to do the excavation as the pros do -- no way I could handle that. Since I'm building on top of caliche and it's very firm, I just rototilled the area shallow and removed about 2-3", mainly to level it. Tamped it all down really good, put in a 1-2" layer of sand, tamped that down and leveled it. Put cedar for the edging held in place with short pieces of rebar and laid the bricks on top of the sand. No spaces. The brick I'm using is from a building that was torn down here in town. I'm using silica sand from the local sand pit which is a combo of medium and fine grade. It started to rain before I was half finished, so I've covered the whole shebang with plastic and after the sand dries out will finish and brush it into the brick. I know you are supposed to lay in gravel or crushed rock under the sand, but it was either do it this way or not do it at all. After the patio is done, I have two walkways to tackle -- one 30' long and the other 50'. Hope to get it all done before the heat of the summer begins to fry me.

[Windy in Kansas]

Originally Posted by L.A.

Check out polymeric sand.

This Old House showed Roger Cook using this and the qualities he described make it sound great.

Sheds water rather than letting water soak through the sand and underneath the brick.

Be sure to tamp/compact the surface where you will place the brick.

Helped a neighbor with a patio and it is still great after 5 or more years. The only settling was where he dug in a drain to take water away from the area and didn't get the base packed in good before laying the pavers.