Buying our land this Spring

[Shamrock76]

We've been in the process of preparing to buy land, build our homestead and live the life we've been wanting to do for 4 years now.

We got ourselves debt free.
We've been learning all we can about the things we'll need to know.
We've been saving up to build a cabin out of pocket.
We've been taking steps in simplifying our life. i.e. Getting rid of the TV. (Still dependent upon certain utilities because of the way the house is set up.)
Last year we managed to grow a respectable garden and learn how to can and preserve. We cook as much as we can from scratch and buy local produce.

The next big step for us is the land purchase. We're very excited and eager to take the next step this Spring...but now I'm starting to feel hesitant. In my eagerness, am I blinding myself into making an unwise purchase? What I mean to say is, I fully expect this next year to be a bad one. I think many different things involving the economy and housing market will come to a head. Would we be better off waiting another year before purchasing? Or would we be better off buying property that will probably lose value so that we might be able to get ourselves set up properly?

If anyone has any words of wisdom or advice I'd be happy to hear it. We've had a rough go of it these last few years and it seems that every time we make the ends meet, someone keeps moving them on us. The "someone" I refer to is just metaphoric. I take responsibility for the troubles we've been having. Even though there have been outside factors like layoffs from career jobs and some unforeseen bills, If I had been prepared for them and had been wiser in our investments we would have been just fine. It's our goal now to never again have our family's livelihood reliant upon the system.

Thanks, Shamrock and Family

[lmrose]

First Shamrock you should be commended for all you have learned and preparations you have already made towards the life you want to lead. Getting free of debt is really good and shows you have self-control in spending.

As for buying land to move to you don't say what region you live in? Buying land you should check out the laws of the area you want to move too. Are there building codes? Are there restrictions on owning animals? Is there water on the land and who owns the water rights? Is the land oriented towards the south to take advantage of the sun? What type of soil is it?

Will someone in the fiamily still need a job and how far is the commute to work? Are there good schools? Are you looking for isolation or a small community to interact with? Is there a farmers market nearby where you can sell vegetables?

Bottom line is ask a lot of questions to your self about where you want to buy land and what you expect for a lifestyle? As for predicting what the ecomomy will do? That is anyones guess. Answer important questions honestly and you will make the right descions.

[Shamrock76]

Thanks for your reply. We moved into the area we wanted to be at this last summer. (NW Michigan) Currently living in a fixer upper my folk's bought as a foreclosure. (for their summer home) They winter in AZ, so we got use of it till next Summer. My wife managed to find a decent job at Crystal Mountain Ski Resort. The properties we're looking at are all within a 20 minute drive from her work. We will be making sure about all the considerations you mentioned plus a few more. We're very close to making our dreams a reality, I'm just considering whether it may be prudent to see if land prices will crash later next year and maybe we should wait before buying. There might also be another option I'm just not aware of, so I'm just basically bouncing my thoughts out there. There are some extremely wise and savvy people on this board. Though I've been more of a reader than a contributor, I've been here through my whole journey
Hopefully someday real soon I'll be able to help contribute and give back to this board at least as much as I've gotten from it, but I find I usually learn more by keeping my mouth shut and my ears open Thanks Again!

[MO_cows]

I think it's only normal to have "cold feet" over taking such a big step.

Congrats on what you have accomplished so far. In many places, now is a great time to buy real estate because it is "on sale". Acreage isn't on sale to the degree of city housing but it sure isn't selling where it did a couple years ago, either, at least not in our area. As Will Rogers said, buy land - they aren't making any more of it. Good luck!

[lmrose]

Shamrock76 ; I lived in lower Michigan, Monroe County, then Detroit , Grand Rapids and Battle Creek after starting out as a kid in Ohio. My Dad's dream was to have a farm in Upper Michigan. We made many trips North to check out properties. I always loved Michigan and still do. I married a Nova Scotian farmer 32 years ago and was delighted when moving here to find some of Nova Scotia is very much like Michigan. The Annapolis Valley is rich farm land and 400 miles north is Cape Breton which is very much like the Upper Pennensula of Michigan.

Nova Scotia like Michigan has a wide variance of climate and soil. If you intend to have a farm that has a chance of being productive check with the area agricultural offices and find out what type of soil is in the area you are planning to move to? You could work very hard for little return if the soil is rocky, clay or has little top soil. It is possible to improve soil and make soil that is rich for growing but so much easier when the soil is already compatible for crops and needs only composting to make it productive. What you expect to do with the land is important. Want to grow Christmas trees or want to raise vegetables for sale or raise cattle or sheep will affect your choice for land. You have come so far now so think things through . Do your research before buying so you have the best chance of success and good luck.

[Callieslamb]

You might also check the prices of land in NW MI - has the value actually gone down? Prices aren't going down everywhere - or at least, not as quickly. Will you have a mortgage on your land? If so that's only a huge a concern if you are planning on moving and having to sell it. You don't really lose value until you sell. What's the most you could lose? What's the most you could gain? It might be better to be on your own devalued land producing food for yourself, than to be in a rental somewhere.

[farmgal]

Land will ever go down in value. You are on the right track. You must be soo excited. Congratulations!

[Shamrock76]

We talked it over, and we're going to just proceed as planned. She's got the day off tomorrow and we've got a couple properties we want to go check out. Land prices here are one of the reasons we chose the area. Don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to the ones we are checking out or not, but one of the areas has a parcel of 10 acres for 12k, 12 acres for 17.5k and 15 acres for 21.5k. All available on a land contract with easy terms. Our plan is to owner-finance the property and use our savings to build the cabin.

[upnorthlady]

Shamrock - Buy the land, live your dream............land prices don't 'crash' like home prices. Land is always a good investment in my opinion. You will never be sorry you have land. If anything, land around you is a buffer zone between you and everyone else, and you can grow fruit trees, have gardens and do whatever else - as long as there are no zoning laws or restrictions about these things. Check into that, especially concerning animals. Good luck to you!

[Shamrock76]

Thanks upnorth, a lot of the townships around here don't have any zoning at all, and the ones that do are pretty lax. This whole area is pretty rural.

I too am looking for land. My realtor says there will be lots of land-only listings starting in March. Right now it's hard to tell what's under all that snow (if tamarac trees, bull rushes, or cattails are growing on it, it's swamp). it is a good time to be looking for land here because there has been lots of rain for the last several years and the water table is about as high as it ever gets. I investigated one listing for 10 acres with a garage and a house but the house was flooded. Turns out the land was located by a marsh and the water flooded the house and 9 of the 10 acres.

Here are some things I am considering;
(1)What setbacks, building codes, and septic system requirements does the county have? Does the land have any easments? Has anyone filed for use permits (like a hog farm) on the adjoining pieces of land? Has the soil been perk tested to be sure you can put in a septic system? Is it a hazerdous waste site? Any association fees or rules? Any limitations on what you can do, like keep a pig?
(2) Getting good water is a necessity. Check with the neighbors and local well drillers to see what the aquifers are like under the property. Here, there are well drilling reports on line that you can look at to see what was encountered when drilling wells nearby and how far down they went. How good is the water? Are there sources of pollution like feed lots or heavily fertilized agricultural land nearby? What is the flow rate of wells in the neighborhood? If you plan on having an open loop geothermal heat pump you need a large flow rate. Are you required to get your water from a local cities water department? Are there any old wells that you will have to pay to cap?
(3) What growing zone is the land located in? You want to be sure that you can grow the fruits and veges you want. Is the land located in a low spot where the cold air pools? It could knock you back one growing zone. How good is the land you want to buy? Will it support your garden or does it have to be supplemented? Does it drain well?
(4) What is the makup of your land, part woods, part open? Does the open part have the right kind of plants to make good pasture? Are the trees good for fire wood? Oak, maple, and ash are best, pine and popple are worst. Is there clear, legal access to the land? Southern exposure if you want solar? Is there a shelter belt to keep out the cold north wind?
(5) Is the land flat or does it have some different elevations? How far down is the high water table? You probably want to put in a basement, root cellar, tornado shelter, and bomb shelter.
(6) How are the neighbors? Visit with them before you buy. Is there a town close so you can shop and visit the library and get health care? How are the schools? Does the county plow the roads in a timely fashion? Will escaped prisoners from the nearby prison take you hostage? Are you located right underneath an airport glide path? Are there lakes nearby if you like to fish? Do you speak the local language?
(7) Is electricity available or do you have to pay a fortune to run it in? How about phone, cable and internet? Cell phone coverage?

I am sure there are more but that's all I can think of right now. Happy new year and good luck.

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by Shamrock76

Thanks upnorth, a lot of the townships around here don't have any zoning at all, and the ones that do are pretty lax. This whole area is pretty rural.

Don't just assume that for the township you will be living in, though. It is true that in Michigan, the zoning and building codes are governed by each township. (Electrical is done by the state, though--and septic is done by the county.) So, check before you leap into a project and get a cease and desist order that will make you go before the board of appeals, etc, etc......
Many townships have started using contracted agencies for building permits and inspections. Check first online--then, if you have to, go to the township office and ask. Remember that the townships in Michigan are hurting for tax moneys--so they will be especially watchful for opportunities to get everybody on the tax rolls and properly taxed.

Also, really, really, inspect the land you are intereested in. Walk it, take a shovel or a post hole digger with you to see what kind of soil you will have and if it percs. You probably already know that much of the soil alongside Lake Michigan is sand, which will take a lot of creative effort to work with and keep fertile.

Also, get the abstract of the deeds and records to see if you will have any hiccups later--such as oil/gas/timber rights and leases, existing right of ways, and the true legal metes and bounds description so you can verify it later with a new survey. A real estate agent or seller will go only to the point of letting you pay for title insurance--which you will have to do anyway, but it leaves you with little or no real information of what's the total history of the land.

In your money outlay, do try to include enough to get it surveyed with both irons and extra flags from the get-go. This tells your neighbors you won't be a patsy when they tell you stories that their great uncle thrice removed always let them deer hunt and drive four-wheelers on what is now your property.

Good Luck,
geo

[jwal10]

My suggestion is don't get in a hurry to buy just to be buying, some of my best deals are waiting for them to come to me. Be at the right place at the right time. Check out forclosures, be open to what is out there not what you have in your mind. Sometimes there are benefits to improvements someone else paid for. Roll with what there is to work with. Learn all you can, don't limit yourself to only your thinking. Check out how others are doing what you would like to have. The right place will pop up and you will know it was meant to be. Then don't look back. Enjoy the journey....James

[geo in mi]

I forgot to mention one other thing: take a drive for a mile or two in a radius all around the property in question to see if you will have anything objectionable which might be a nuisance or a downright show stopper for you---sewage treatment plant, 6,000 cow dairy operation, or things like that--the seller or real estate agent won't tell you that. Also, if there's a house, turn on a water faucet, get a drink to check for rust and taste, and flush a toilet to see how much pressure there is.

And in regards to the Michigan economy and land prices taking a nose dive--my opinion is that they have already augered into the ground as much as possible. There's no way but up from here on ........

geo

[Shamrock76]

Thanks for all the great advice, When I said we're moving forward with buying land, I should have specified that at my speed that means sometime in the next 3-6 months before I actually make an offer, and that's only considering I find what I'm looking for. What I need to make is a list that has all these points on it with check boxes or a blank to fill in certain information. Then I can fill one out for each of the properties I find so as to compare pros and cons.

Yes it seems all the land out here has very sandy soil, some places worse than others. One of the pros with that is all the drainage around here is very good. I will be doing some serious composting here. Last summer my dad had a truckload of straw and manure brought in for the area we started the garden in.

I've talked with a couple of the building departments in the counties around here. I will have to still pull all of the permits necessary to build, but my understanding is that in the areas where there are no zoning, that I can use some of the alternative construction methods we've been looking into without much hassle. We'll see though, with the lack of funding in these counties, there may not even be a building department next year.

We want to start off our cabin with a humanure toilet and a gray water setup. What I've been told is that certain composting toilet setups (the expensive kind) might be approved, but I would still need a septic tank for the gray water. This has been my biggest disappointment so far. I think in these times we need as many progressive thinkers as possible, trying new things and experimenting with what works and what doesn't work so well. My homestead is also going to be a proving grounds for all the crazy ideas I have rattling around up in my head.

Me in 30 years!