need suggestions re: housing/stipend for farm manager

Doc · #1 12/25/10, 12:15 PM

We have a furnished cottage on the farm that we have been renting. But, we want to employ a farm manager to help us run/maintain the farm -- averages out to be about 15 hrs/wk, of course, more hours during the growing seasons and fewer in non-growing/winter. Our idea was to offer free housing and then some type of stipend to total around $15-$18K/yr.

Curious to know if there are others who do this, or have had this type of experience and could offer advice or other scenarios.

Thanks.

AverageJo · #2 12/25/10, 12:21 PM

We've thought about it, too. What we were going to do was take the 'hourly' wage, multiply it by the number of hours required on average, then subtract the amount we would normally get for rent. The balance would then be the stipend. Hope that made sense.

Doc · #3 12/25/10, 12:26 PM

AverageJo: without revealing your hourly wage, how about setting up a hypothetical? Thanks for your quick reply.

DaleK · #4 12/25/10, 12:57 PM

You need to think about what ELSE they'll be able to do to make ends meet. Will they be able to keep another part-time job year round to supplement,or will the farm work be full-time in season and they'll have to hope to find off-season work to pay the rest of the bills? You'll have to pay a bit more for the latter.

Our Little Farm · #5 12/25/10, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

We have a furnished cottage on the farm that we have been renting. But, we want to employ a farm manager to help us run/maintain the farm -- averages out to be about 15 hrs/wk, of course, more hours during the growing seasons and fewer in non-growing/winter. Our idea was to offer free housing and then some type of stipend to total around $15-$18K/yr.

Curious to know if there are others who do this, or have had this type of experience and could offer advice or other scenarios.

Thanks.

That sounds pretty fair to me!

#6 12/25/10, 01:15 PM

I suppose every area is different but I'll throw this out there . My nephew was the caretaker of about a 4 hundred acre farm . He received $700.00 a month & free housing . He paid his utilities I believe . Part of the farm was leased to another farmer who grew corn & alfalfa & part of the farm was rented out each summer for pasture . There was also quite a bit of woodland . My nephew also worked a full time job .
His duties on the farm was to find a renter for the pasture each spring & keep the fences in good shape . The same farmer farmed the cropland each year so there wasn't much for him to do in relation to that . The owner liked to deer hunt & there was woods roads all through the woodland . My nephew kept these roads cleared of fallen trees ect. Maintenance on the home & outbuildings was also part of his responsibilities . The owner paid for needed materials . Large jobs such as re-roofing the home ect. was done by a contractor & paid for by the owner . There was always something he could be doing such as mowing & trimming around the home & outbuildings , keeping the fence-lines free of weeds & brush , a certain amount of brush-hogging ect. Most of the work he did was in the summer . There wasn't much for him to do in the winter .

fordy · #7 12/25/10, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

We have a furnished cottage on the farm that we have been renting. But, we want to employ a farm manager to help us run/maintain the farm -- averages out to be about 15 hrs/wk, of course, more hours during the growing seasons and fewer in non-growing/winter. Our idea was to offer free housing and then some type of stipend to total around $15-$18K/yr.

Curious to know if there are others who do this, or have had this type of experience and could offer advice or other scenarios.

Thanks.

................I'd go the cash route , otherwise , IF you withhold income tax and fica then you're into paying a bookkeeper , W2' , W3's , 941's , etc . For the individual you hire (on a cash basis) , every dollar they deposit in a bank has too have a source and a destination , if they get audited . they should do all their banking out of their back pocket ! , fordy

oregon woodsmok · #8 12/25/10, 01:54 PM

Suggestion: pay an hourly wage and collect rent for the house.

That way, you can pay for the work you get. If the guy shirks his duties and rent is included in his job, what are you going to do? You can't dock him one bedroom.

In this economy, plenty of folks would like a job and especially when it includes a place to live with no commute and a reasonable rent. However, there are also plenty of folks who think they can handle work and find they can't. Once they are in your house and stop working, they are going to live for free while you evict them through the courts. All that time they stay there will be free because the rent was set at $0.

Didn't pay the rent is an easy eviction. Didn't work hard enough is not.

Belfrybat · #9 12/25/10, 02:46 PM

15 hrs weekly x 50 weeks = 750 annual hrs. Divided into $15,000 = $20.00 an hour plus free housing. I'd say that was more than fair, and if the hours are flexible, someone should be able to do that alongside another part or even full-time job. I used to live on a ranch where the foreman was an A&M graduate in ranch management, worked full-time with house and utilities included and made $25,000.00 a year. That was in 2001. So you are certainly in line with that, considering this is nine years later.

I'm going to differ with the person who said to pay under the table. Not a good idea to mess with the IRS. Paying a yard man who comes a day or two a month under the table is a lot different than paying a regular employee. And the paperwork isn't that onerous. You might be able to get by with just a 1099 by paying as an independent contractor. Very little paperwork in that.

Old Vet · #10 12/25/10, 03:20 PM

My father was a farm manager for a large farm. he received $1500 per month and a house with utilities payed. It was not much but he lived on this. Any less and he would look for another job. When you say 15 hours per week are you sure. Can he do this and have it done on his own time and schedule or are you going to say he worked 4 hours per day? If you are going to say he worked 3 or 4 hours per day on your schedule it doesn't make it easy to find some work that he can do for the rest of the day. Farm manager will work enough to keep him busy most of the day and not just 3 or 4 hours. If you need a person to work for 15 hours per week you need to have a day labor. In the IRS rules to have free rent you must have him their all the time. I would have a low rent like $20 per month so that during the time that he will not be working and he finds another job that that he likes you can raise the rent enough that he will move.

fantasymaker · #11 12/27/10, 04:07 PM

Where this will be is VERY Important, why is it a secret?

MO_cows · #12 12/27/10, 05:46 PM

Doc, please go talk to a CPA. A brief consultation can't cost that much and you want to do it right and not bring the IRS, state department of revenue, unemployment office, etc. down on you. "Live-in help" is not going to qualify as an independent contractor under the current rules, I don't believe. So if you have an employee, then you have federal, state, social security, medicare to withhold and remit. The SS and MC, you have to match the withheld amount when you remit. Then there is the state - another withhold, remit, and form to fill out quarterly.

ErinP · #13 12/27/10, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

We have a furnished cottage on the farm that we have been renting. But, we want to employ a farm manager to help us run/maintain the farm -- averages out to be about 15 hrs/wk, of course, more hours during the growing seasons and fewer in non-growing/winter. Our idea was to offer free housing and then some type of stipend to total around $15-$18K/yr.

Curious to know if there are others who do this, or have had this type of experience and could offer advice or other scenarios.

Thanks.

My husband has been a ranch manager for two different places, a ranch foreman for one place and a ranch hand for multiple.
Payment/housing/utilities is a common practice when hiring ranch or farm help.
Payment will be the variable.

This will NOT be an independent contractor type of setup as you will be the one determining chores, methodology, etc. Not to mention he'll be living on your place. This is an employee, pure and simple.
(Having just filled out an SS-8 for the IRS because the last place my husband ran, the boss tried to give him a 1099MISC. lol)

I would NOT try to figure in the value of house and utilities. As stated, those are very common benefits in this business. When people try to tell DH how "valuable" they are, generally they're vastly over-rating their house. Free rent and utilities are a valuable benefit, but don't try to figure them in to the value of the work performed. Because of this benefit, ranch and farm help does expect to be paid less than other skilled labor.

We've had some nice jobs, with crappy housing. And some lousy jobs with beautiful homes. Beyond a doubt, the work environment itself is the determining factor.

Suggestions:
#1. Decide EXACTLY what you expect of your employee. Already you're calling him a farm manager, but what you're describing is a farm hand, or perhaps foreman, depending upon how much autonomy you grant.

A manager makes the decisions pure and simple. Perhaps not the truly big ones like when to sell stock, or who to contract the corn to, but any decisions below that are HIS. When you say this: to help us run/maintain it sounds like you plan to keep a hand in the function of the place.
That's fine. Just don't try to advertise a manager job because the guys you talk to will be expecting something very different.

#2. If you are POSITIVE the hours would only be about 15 per week, you're probably overpaying. Unless you live in Southern California or something.
$12K is probably as high as anyone would expect for something that would allow them to work another job. Or, for this to be a retirement job.

I mean, that's only two hours a day!

Could I interest you in a 36 year old family man?

Excellent mechanic, cattleman and general fix-it guy. Will not do row cropping.

tinknal · #14 12/27/10, 07:30 PM

Might be a good deal for a younger retired person or couple. Maybe a farmer who sold the farm but still wants some dirt under his nails.

mamaof3peas · #15 12/27/10, 09:52 PM

Yes my bunny would love to find an opportunity like this!!

katydidagain · #16 12/27/10, 10:08 PM

Listen to Erin and others who know; be very careful about the IRS and don't do this without consulting a tax expert. My deceased mother paid a woman to help her at times; she usually handed her cash but sometimes a check. The woman decided to report her "earnings" without telling my family which started a mess. My mother's been dead 5 years; I'm not sure whether the estate has settled it or not but less than $5K in "wages" has cost a lot to fix.