some perspective

[bruce2288]

Yesterday on the way to town, stopped and bought a pint bottle of tea, $1.89. Later bought a nice looing pair of work boots all leather, lug sole 19.87. So the barter equivalent 1 1/2 gallon of tea (made in US) for a pair of boots(made in China). I and most bemoan the loss of jobs and manufacturing in this country, but if we had to pay for goods made here we may well have sticker shock. PS another sticker shock Bobcat quoted me 18 hours to replace 4 axle seals on Skid steer@$100/hr. $1800for labor I figure even if it took me a month pretty good wage.

[deb]

Originally Posted by bruce2288

Yesterday on the way to town, stopped and bought a pint bottle of tea, $1.89. Later bought a nice looing pair of work boots all leather, lug sole 19.87. So the barter equivalent 1 1/2 gallon of tea (made in US) for a pair of boots(made in China)...

You are comparing apples to a rutabagas.

The cost of ready made beverages is due to the labor cost handling of a breakable, can't be frozen, semi-perishable food item that is refrigerated at the Point of Sale. Liquids are heavy & awkward to move and food items require special handling from day 1. The actual cost of the ingredients: water, tea (from China) and various sweeteners & flavorings is minimal. Corn Syrup is usually the main sweetener and the corn it is made from is the only ingredient that get US Government price supports. Ready made beverages for retail sale are a very profitable product in the US. Gas stations make the most of their income from the sale of beverages and snacks.

The Chinese boots require no special handling. They are made in huge quantities, packed in boxes, put on pallets then shoved into shipping containers which are loaded onto giant freighters. They can be stored for long periods of time in freezing or hot conditions without affecting the product. The actual cost of manufacturing & packaging the boot is small because the Chinese government supports manufacturing in so many ways. The cost of labor is cheap in China and the Chinese government keeps it that way. There are no environment rules or labor rules in China. The Chinese government subsidizes the electricity used by factories. The Chinese government supports the Chinese paper manufacturers so the cost of the box is kept artificially low. Finally, the Chinese government manipulates the value of the Chinese currency on the world market to keep it artificially low to increase the world demand for Chinese made good which increases exports.

The amount of Chinese government support is so huge that even after being shipped across the ocean, the Chinese Boot ends up being the cheapest product on the US market and is sold by US stores at an amazingly low price.

Free Trade isn't the same thing as Fair Trade.

deb
in wi

[cbcansurvive]

Another thing to ask yourself is where your $19.87 for the boots is going vs. your $100 per hour for work on your skid steer. The $19.87 is supporting the government subsidized industry of an enemy foreign power. The $100 per hour is going to an American worker/company who will eventually spend those dollars here to feed their family, keep a roof over their head, etc... This is not to mention the fact that you can buy many many pairs of $20 Chinese boots over the years or you can buy one pair of $200 American made boots that will last many many years. The Chinese are very good at making "disposable" goods-things that will work for a while and then fall apart. As homesteaders we should focus on buying things that will last for years. I have a Blackmer (Made in the USA) hand pump that I use for pumping a blend of diesel fuel and vegetable oil into my truck with. It was $100. I could have bought a hand pump from Harbor Freight for $30 (Made in China), but the Blackmer has served me well for years and will likely never wear out (it came with a rebuild kit just in case), so I though the Harbor Freight pump is cheaper, I will likely never have the inconvenience of a broken pump which will necessitate me going out and buying another one. It's not just about the dollar amount...

[geo in mi]

Does someone grow tea in the US?

geo

[paintboy]

At that price I believe I would be learning how to change axle seals

[bruce2288]

I am indeed comparing apples to rutabagas. One does not generally trade an onion for an onion but something different. Thank you for the info, I am fully aware of why imported items are cheap, it does not change the comparison of value ie price between the items mentioned.
Indeed I will be doing the seal myself, probably with a lot of cussing involved.

[oz in SC V2.0]

Thing is,your Chinese made boots won't last,while US made ones will.
I have US made boots that are five years old or older,now while those boots cost more,they outlast Chinese made.

[o&itw]

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

Thing is,your Chinese made boots won't last,while US made ones will.
I have US made boots that are five years old or older,now while those boots cost more,they outlast Chinese made.

I buy US made boots, Carolinas I think is the name. The model I buy runs about $150. If I can get them to last for a year I am happy. Never bought Chinese boots, so I have nothing to compare. Boot wear is more of a function of what one's job is.

I try to buy everything I can US made, but so many things aren't anymore. The quality of many "everyday" US goods have gone way down. Japaneese inport cars didn't take over the market because of their cost, they took over the market because they drove 175,000+ miles with out wearing out, as opposed to 75,000+ miles for an American. I bought a chevy Malibu with 307 engine, and the engine was worn out at 50,000 miles.

I agree, buy American if you can afford it, but check out the facts. Most Hondas, for instance are much more made in the US than most Fords or Chevy's.

[cbcansurvive]

Originally Posted by o&itw

I buy US made boots, Carolinas I think is the name. The model I buy runs about $150. If I can get them to last for a year I am happy. Never bought Chinese boots, so I have nothing to compare. Boot wear is more of a function of what one's job is.

Carolinas (as with many boot manufacturers these days) vary-some models are made here, some are made overseas. I got a pair of the "Logger" series for Christmas a few years back and was disappointed to see the "Made in China" tag on the inside. There are domestically produced models as per their website though. They are identified by a small American flag sewn onto the side. Danners, as far as I know are all American made along with a few other mom and pop manufacturers across the country.

Originally Posted by o&itw

I try to buy everything I can US made, but so many things aren't anymore. The quality of many "everyday" US goods have gone way down. Japaneese inport cars didn't take over the market because of their cost, they took over the market because they drove 175,000+ miles with out wearing out, as opposed to 75,000+ miles for an American. I bought a chevy Malibu with 307 engine, and the engine was worn out at 50,000 miles.

Did you ever change the oil? American made V8s can go to 200K with proper maintenance, at which point they can be yanked out, re-ringed, and made to go another 100K miles. The '80s are over, American carmakers have caught up. I've got 170K on my Powerstroke-with oil changes every 5000 miles I'll get 400K out of it without a problem.

Originally Posted by o&itw

I agree, buy American if you can afford it, but check out the facts. Most Hondas, for instance are much more made in the US than most Fords or Chevy's.

That may be true and American workers may be making a wage assembling those cars, but where do the profits end up? Not here.

[pancho]

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

Thing is,your Chinese made boots won't last,while US made ones will.
I have US made boots that are five years old or older,now while those boots cost more,they outlast Chinese made.

I have a pair of rockports and a pair of merrills that have already outlasted a couple of pairs of U.S. made shoes. They are both made in China. If there was a shoe made in the U.S. that could compare to them as far as comfort and lasting I would by them.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by cbcansurvive

Did you ever change the oil? American made V8s can go to 200K with proper maintenance, at which point they can be yanked out, re-ringed, and made to go another 100K miles. The '80s are over, American carmakers have caught up. I've got 170K on my Powerstroke-with oil changes every 5000 miles I'll get 400K out of it without a problem.

Poster is saying back in the 1970s when Japanese gained a significant share of the American car market, American cars were getting 13mpg with oversized engines and excess weight and expected to last 100k miles max. Most people dont do regular maintenance nor rebuild a vehicle or even the engine when it has beaucoup miles. Somebody doing meticulous maintenance will get long service from any machine. The Japanese vehicles of the time started lasting significantly long amounts time even with poor maintenance and got 25 to 35 mpg. Yep American manufacturers played catch up in their engineering, but it didnt regain lost market share. Right now the Japanese are making bloated cars with every electronic gadget known to man and getting their lunch eaten by the Korean car companies. Watch out for the Chinese and Indian car companies to further eat into Japanese and American market share. By way just about all cars are now made from worldwide sourced parts. There are no one country car companies anymore. The smaller independent companies that might have claimed this are gone from the market.

[Old Vet]

Originally Posted by cbcansurvive

Another thing to ask yourself is where your $19.87 for the boots is going vs. your $100 per hour for work on your skid steer. The $19.87 is supporting the government subsidized industry of an enemy foreign power. The $100 per hour is going to an American worker/company who will eventually spend those dollars here to feed their family, keep a roof over their head, etc... This is not to mention the fact that you can buy many many pairs of $20 Chinese boots over the years or you can buy one pair of $200 American made boots that will last many many years. The Chinese are very good at making "disposable" goods-things that will work for a while and then fall apart. As homesteaders we should focus on buying things that will last for years. I have a Blackmer (Made in the USA) hand pump that I use for pumping a blend of diesel fuel and vegetable oil into my truck with. It was $100. I could have bought a hand pump from Harbor Freight for $30 (Made in China), but the Blackmer has served me well for years and will likely never wear out (it came with a rebuild kit just in case), so I though the Harbor Freight pump is cheaper, I will likely never have the inconvenience of a broken pump which will necessitate me going out and buying another one. It's not just about the dollar amount...

China is not an enemy foreign power power. Since they have a commanding role in the economic power they will not start a war. Who would start a war over most anything with their best customers. You may not like the way they do business but the money they get from us counts a lot.

[oz in SC V2.0]

Originally Posted by pancho

I have a pair of rockports and a pair of merrills that have already outlasted a couple of pairs of U.S. made shoes. They are both made in China. If there was a shoe made in the U.S. that could compare to them as far as comfort and lasting I would by them.

What US made shoes have you tried?

[pancho]

Originally Posted by oz in SC V2.0

What US made shoes have you tried?

Are you doing a survey?

[cbcansurvive]

Originally Posted by Old Vet

China is not an enemy foreign power power. Since they have a commanding role in the economic power they will not start a war. Who would start a war over most anything with their best customers. You may not like the way they do business but the money they get from us counts a lot.

War isn't always fought with guns and bombs. The Chinese are engaging in economic warfare because it's far more effective. They are flexing their economic muscle around the globe which is the first step to creating greater spheres of influence. China wants to be number one (so does Russia, Brazil, and India), and their primary tactic against us has been to flood our markets with cheap goods, and then luring us into debt-to them. If that doesn't make them an enemy I don't know what does.

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by cbcansurvive

That may be true and American workers may be making a wage assembling those cars, but where do the profits end up? Not here.

Profits end up in the shareholders' pockets, wherever those shareholders might live (Is BP actually British?). I don't own much stock, but I and almost everyone I know needs to have a job. Dividends don't reward anything except having money, but jobs reward work. I'd rather buy American by putting Americans to work than by directing profits to companies that happen to be headquartered in the US. "American" cars tend to give jobs to Canadian and Mexican workers. My "Japanese" car was very well built by the good people of Indiana.

Originally Posted by Old Vet

Who would start a war over most anything with their best customers. You may not like the way they do business but the money they get from us counts a lot.

Germany and France were each others' biggest trading partners in 1939.

I'm still struck by bruce2288's point that a gallon and a half of local iced tea costs the same as a cheap pair of imported boots. I'm a big fan of automotive DIY- I started out of curiosity and kept at it when I realized that even with scratching my head and inventing labor ops and tools I was still beating flat rate time.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by cbcansurvive

War isn't always fought with guns and bombs. The Chinese are engaging in economic warfare because it's far more effective. They are flexing their economic muscle around the globe which is the first step to creating greater spheres of influence. China wants to be number one (so does Russia, Brazil, and India), and their primary tactic against us has been to flood our markets with cheap goods, and then luring us into debt-to them. If that doesn't make them an enemy I don't know what does.

Well said.

There is more than one way to 'take' a country.

There is no way - no way - China is not our enemy. They are still a communist country even though no one wants to call them Red China any more and they are definitely our enemy economically.

[Patt]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

Does someone grow tea in the US?

geo

Yes:

http://www.sallybernstein.com/bevera...an_classic.htm

[Patt]

Originally Posted by cbcansurvive

War isn't always fought with guns and bombs. The Chinese are engaging in economic warfare because it's far more effective. They are flexing their economic muscle around the globe which is the first step to creating greater spheres of influence. China wants to be number one (so does Russia, Brazil, and India), and their primary tactic against us has been to flood our markets with cheap goods, and then luring us into debt-to them. If that doesn't make them an enemy I don't know what does.

I am afraid I must disagree. First various countries have sold us cheap manufactured goods in the last 50 years or so starting with Japan. I don't remember any of them trying to take us over. Second how exactly did China "lure" us into borrowing money from them? Simple fact is America over spends and we borrow from everybody!

[Pink_Carnation]

I would agree that comparing to the tea is problematic since most of the price is about what the public will pay for the convience of it in the small size. Much like soda is $1.59 in a 1 liter bottle and $1.50 in a 2 liter bottle.