Boiler Radiator

[Lyra]

I have seen a lot of older homes with steam heating systems. Does anyone have any experience living in a house with such units? What are the pros and cons? Should this system be avoided at all costs?

[TnAndy]

I think the problem is not so much the heating system ( though it may well be a problem if it's old and inefficient ) but the houses they were installed in lacked modern insulation and thus required a HUGE amount of heat to keep the place warm.

Also it may be steam and it may be hot water....at first glance, they look a lot alike.

[Lyra]

I love old 1920s homes but I have no experience with steam/water heating. I am wondering if it is even worth considering.

[ryanthomas]

My grandfather's house has radiators, I think hot water, but maybe steam. They are original to the 110-year-old house (newer boiler) and they work beautifully. They make some noises, but you get used to it. I don't see any reason to avoid such a system if it's in good condition.

[Tracy Rimmer]

We have hot water (glycol mix, actually) radiators, like this:



When we bought this place, it has a huge old coal boiler furnace in the basement -- we immediately replaced it with an electric boiler, freeing up about twenty square feet in our basement

I love the heat from it -- it's a soft, gentle heat, and we don't have any "cold spots" in the house -- it's really hard to describe, but it is, by far, the nicest heating system we've ever had.

[overthrow]

So you have cast iron radiators in the house, but you aren't sure if they are, steam or, hot water? Hot water radiators all have a small bleeder valve on one end near the top. Steam radiators all have an air vent on one end about half way up that will most likely be shiny chrome and about 2inches tall. Any house that still heats with cast radiators is below the efficiency standards, especially now that fuel is big bucks a gallon. An average house with all cast iron radiation for hot water will hold about 50 to 75 gallons of water that will have to be heated to warm the house, as opposed the same house with all base board radiation will be about 15 to 20 gallons of water. Steam may be a little more efficient, but will depend on the age and type of, boiler and burner combination.
If you like the house, let the seller know you don't like the heat system and use it as a $8000. bargaining chip. It would probably be OK for a good backup heat system when your not at home during the cold months, and heat with wood or pellets when you are home. Good luck with your new home.

[fellini123]

We had hot water baseboard heat in our house in Tidewater. It was WONDERFUL. I loved it. No static electrcity, warm nice heat, not drying at all, very pleasant. I would do it again, but replumbing the whole house isnt for me!! LOL

Alice in Virginia

[Lyra]

overthrow, there isn't one particular house. I have been looking at many houses and a lot of the ones from the 1920s have the steam/water boilers.

[Roadking]

Both our houses, 1817 and 1860 have hot water radiators...best heat there is, to us.
We're actually taking some of the baseboard pipe heating out and installing radiators...kinds of reverse upgrading to some.
Matt

[clovis]

If you bought a home with steam or hot water heat, and decided at some point down the road that you wanted to change it out for a forced air system (traditional NG furnace), it could be very expensive.

It could become a nightmare job too, figuring out were the duct work is going to be for both the heat and cold air returns.

The expense and the remodeling mess of changing out a radiant heat system could be the reason that those houses haven't been changed out yet.

I'd strongly advise that you look at the existing boiler system before buying. I've heard that some of those old units can be energy hogs.

[northgirl]

I have had all different kinds of heat and hot water heat is my second favorite. We lived in an old house (built 1910) and it had the old boiler with cast iron rads all over the house. I found not only was the heat pleasant but it was no more price wise than any other source except wood heat of course. I would choose it again in a heartbeat!

[Wolf mom]

I grew up in a house in New Jersey that had radiators, and like Tracy R. originally heated them with coal. Never forget the coal cellar and my father lugging coal ashes out to the curb.

We had covers for them with a shallow 2" tray in the top for water to add humidity to the rooms. As I remember, I was never cold living there although my grandmother would turn the heat way down at night & I'd get dressed for school in the kitchen in front of the hot oven.

And yes - no insulllation in the house, until they had it blown in years later.

Bitter-sweet memories.....

[rambler]

Actual steam heat is getting a little rustic - the radiators get quite hot, and the systems are a bit to maintain....

Hot water heat is terrific. Even heat, less dust, less air blowing all over. Good system.

The negative to either is that central air is not possible with them. Many people want central heat, central air, and of course you can't do that with water heating.

--->Paul

[Mickie3]

We lived in Western NY years ago and had hot water heat. Have had forced air all my adult life and will say that it was a "warmer" feeling heat, more evenly distributed than any other I have ever had. The utility bills (NG) were actually pretty reasonable, considering the landlord had never put in any kind of insulation and the house was built in the late 1800s. All in all, was a nice setup and you could lay sweaters on the cast iron radiators and dry them. (Wife LOVED that!)

[ryanthomas]

Originally Posted by overthrow

Any house that still heats with cast radiators is below the efficiency standards, especially now that fuel is big bucks a gallon. An average house with all cast iron radiation for hot water will hold about 50 to 75 gallons of water that will have to be heated to warm the house, as opposed the same house with all base board radiation will be about 15 to 20 gallons of water.

How does this make any difference in efficiency? As far as I can tell, heat is heat. I can see how boiler efficiency can make a difference, but shouldn't you go by the BTU's needed rather than the amount of water heated? I'm not an expert by any means, so this is an honest question looking to understand it.

As for the A/C disadvantage that someone else mentioned, there are high velocity mini duct systems that can work well in old houses. Or you can use a ductless split A/C, which is like a combination of central and room A/C and only requires two small refrigerant lines run to each room. With either option, your heating and cooling are two separate systems.

[Farmerwilly2]

I used it in my first house, only problem I ever had was the auto fill valve got dirty one season, filled the boiler---then the radiators---then spilled out of the radiators onto the floor. My kids called me at work when they got home from school and I got home to water pouring from the 2nd floor to the basement. Spent the evening with a mop and squeegie, cleaning the valve and setting up fans. It was a mess, but it was warm again by bedtime. Remember to flush the rust on a regular basis.

[Beeman]

I grew up with steam heat and lived there for 30 years. Great heat and never a cold spot or cool time between the burner shut down and refire. The drawback to steam heat is that it's usually a very old system. Our boiler was a converted coal furnace that was converted to opil. Also it's all black iron pipe and sometimes wrapped in asbestos. You have to know what you're looking at.
If I built a system from scratch in a new house I'd use recirculated hot water, there's nothing like it.

[RosewoodfarmVA]

One advantage a radiator system has over forced air is no dust circulation. With forced air the air in the house is constantly circulating and moving so the dust gets stirred up and moved around. Of course with proper filtration the dust doesn't move through the system but the air in each room is still moving so any dust airborne stays that way longer and travels.

[overthrow]

Originally Posted by ryanthomas

How does this make any difference in efficiency? As far as I can tell, heat is heat. I can see how boiler efficiency can make a difference, but shouldn't you go by the BTU's needed rather than the amount of water heated? I'm not an expert by any means, so this is an honest question looking to understand it.

As for the A/C disadvantage that someone else mentioned, there are high velocity mini duct systems that can work well in old houses. Or you can use a ductless split A/C, which is like a combination of central and room A/C and only requires two small refrigerant lines run to each room. With either option, your heating and cooling are two separate systems.

ryanthomas, Each time the boiler cycles to heat the water that is contained in the piping, and all the radiation will dramatically effect the overall efficiency, as to how many gallons of water it has to heat at any one time. A boiler, and piping system that has only 15 gallons of water in it, will heat faster and satisfy the thermostat much quicker, shutting the burner off much sooner than a system with 50 gallons of water in it. Most efficiencie tests are done just above the core of the boiler, determining how much heat is conveyed into the water jacket. You can have a new, high efficiency boiler, but the complete system efficiency will depend on how many gallons of water it will take that boiler to heat the same house. Many gallons of fuel were saved when baseboard heat replaced cast iron radiation.

[NostalgicGranny]

Originally Posted by rambler

Actual steam heat is getting a little rustic - the radiators get quite hot, and the systems are a bit to maintain....

Hot water heat is terrific. Even heat, less dust, less air blowing all over. Good system.

The negative to either is that central air is not possible with them. Many people want central heat, central air, and of course you can't do that with water heating.

--->Paul

Burned my leg on one when I was a little kid. Was in the isolation unit of the hospital for over a year. Little kids like climbing on things. If you have kids it might be a con.