Cost of Living

[thestartupman]

I know this topic has been discussed before, but I have been doing more research. I am hoping that everyone will try to keep it at what their actual cost of living cost are, or what they are predicting them to be. This is what I am basing my cost from. I am planning to have a farm, and be as self sufficient as possible. The figures I am putting down will be more acurate my 2nd, and third years. I know I will have a lot more upfront cost the first year or two. I plan to put a solar power system in, with a diesel back up generator. I plan to buy my diesel in bulk, and the same tank will supply fuel for my tractor, generator, truck, and car. I plan to raise all of my meat, 95% of my fruits and vegtables, and most of the feed for my livestock. I will be using rotational grazing to keep cost down.I will be supplying my income from my property, my wife may work off the property, but mainly for her own sanity. I plan to have no mortgage, no car or truck payments. Here are my estimates.
Expenses
45 Groceries (food)
45 Groceries (Household)
150 Car Insurance
50 Home Insurance
350 Health Insurance (including out of pocket exp)
40 Entertainment (including eating out)
100 Diesel (for tractor, truck, car, and back-up Generator)
75 Propane (Cook Top, Water Heater, (Backup) Gas heat stove, BBQ)
30 Clothing (2 People)
50 Phone
40 Internet
50 Real Estate Tax
10 Animal Feed
25 Animal Expenses (non Vet)
20 Vet
30 House Maintenance (roof, carpet…ect)
30 Property Maintenance (Fencing, sheds, GraVEL..ect)
200 Travel (to see kids, or help them come see us)
Total $1340 per month

[Le Petit Norman]

it does depend on a lot of factor that you do not gave us but I will say that the animals expenses can probably be reviewed with a higher price. Concerning your health insurance, as you state that you are not looking to work, I wish I knew where you get it because with my employer paying part of mine, my cost is still higher than that for a family of 4

anyway enjoy your new life

[MO_cows]

Car insurance?

The diesel fuel, you aren't planning on using farm fuel in your car, are you? Everyone I know who has done that, has gotten caught, and the fines were much more than what they "saved".

Animal feed $10/month? What critters are you planning to have?

[thestartupman]

It will only be the two of us, and we are in pretty good health. We should be able to bank a lot of the monthly cost. I have found insurance for $220 per month.

[Danaus29]

Our monthly expenses run something like this:
$25 phone service/land line
$40 internet
$230 electric, includes all heating costs, average for a year
$100 home ins. (only for 7 months but we pay it off early)
$160 auto ins.
$20 auto registrations (4 vehicles, average monthly cost figured a little high)
$500 2nd mortgage
$300 line of credit
$200 property taxes (monthly budget)
$200 credit card payment
$100 animal feed and care (includes bedding and replacement cages for rabbits)
$20 trash pick-up
$40 sewer bill
$200 home repair and remodeling (includes property maintenance)
$30 monthly appliance replacement budget
$100 auto repair budget
$200 groceries including household consumables
$50 clothing
$200 gas for vehicles
$50 gardening expenses (includes pots and potting soil, seeds, and plants)

total: $2765 No wonder we never have any money.

[thestartupman]

I have car insurance on the list. As far as the diesel, no, it will not be farm fuel.

[thestartupman]

Thanks Danaus29, I appeciate the response

[Beeman]

I need a house that only needs $360 worth of maintenance a year, I just bought a $25 sheet of plywood. $100 worth of fuel is 1 tank right now. $350 health ins sounds cheap. Vehicle maintenance, tires were $800 for my 3/4 ton? $50 real estate tax is low, I'm in TN and going over that this year, doublwide and 7 acres, if you plan on raising animals their feed and your food you're talking a bunch of land and a bunch of taxes. Priced fertilizer lately? License plates? Electric bill? Chicken feed is over $10 a bag now. One metal fence post is over $5, a wood corner post is $20, I've lost track of the price of barbed wire but it's up there, a gate is about $70. If you come to TN remember 10% of everything goes to sales tax.

[Kevingr]

Depending on what you do for a house, buy or build, the $30 is pretty low. I own 5 houses and except for the one that was built brand new the other 4 are well over $30 a month on average.

Depending on where you live the $40 for internet could be pretty low. If you're in an area where only satellite or an air card are your options you may need to double that.

Animal feed seems pretty low, but like you mentioned, you want to raise your own. Same for Vet expenses. One trip to the vet with your average house dog can easily be $200.

I live 15 miles out of town and have two vehicles that get decent mileage. My gasoline bill is $400-900/month depending on cost of gas. If your spouse will be working away from home take into account the mileage and fuel needed.

Not sure how much propane costs in MO or KY, but in central MN in the heart of the winter you might pay close to $3.00 a gallon. I go through roughly 1200 gallons a year but pre-buy in the summer, usually around $1.60/gal. Obviously you wouldn't use that much, but an older home will need more than a newer one.

Go to Gary's website, www.builditsolar.com for lots of info on saving on your utility bills and installing solar or wind.

[Callieslamb]

I think your home and property maintenance budgets need to be doubled or even tripled - it will take a long to be able to do any project at that price.

Savings? - we count this as an expense, maybe you don't
Emergency fund?

[Carol K]

If you are going to have animals, maybe consider some Farm Insurance, it will cover you if a cow or goat gets in the road and causes an accident, in my area it runs me $100 a year for basic. You may also want to add a retirement account/slush fund, it will grow and can be used for emergency items.
I would question your animal feed bill, if you need hay, that amount probably won't get you much. Even in your area you will need to feed hay for a few months of the year I would think, unless you have few animals and lots of land.
Looks good though, I wish you luck.

Carol K

[Danaus29]

You can grow a lot of animal feed on 50 acres. My grandparents grew nearly all their cattle feed. But Grandma spent quite a bit on chicken feed and scratch grain.

My auto repair budget is unrealistically low for some people. Dh does nearly all our mechanical work.

[Joshie]

Oops, Danus. I'll try this again. Your prices make much more sense when you're talking about a small lot.

Thestartupman said:

Expenses
45 Groceries (food)
45 Groceries (Household)
150 Car Insurance
50 Home Insurance
350 Health Insurance (including out of pocket exp)
40 Entertainment (including eating out)
100 Diesel (for tractor, truck, car, and back-up Generator)
75 Propane (Cook Top, Water Heater, (Backup) Gas heat stove, BBQ)
30 Clothing (2 People)
50 Phone
40 Internet
50 Real Estate Tax
10 Animal Feed
25 Animal Expenses (non Vet)
20 Vet
30 House Maintenance (roof, carpet…ect)
30 Property Maintenance (Fencing, sheds, GraVEL..ect)
200 Travel (to see kids, or help them come see us)
Total $1340 per month



I think you're underpricing by a lot.

I wish I could get phone and internet for those prices. Out in the country internet can be much more expensive than it is in town. Do you plan on having a cell phone? Our internet costs $70/month. It's the only thing we can get other than satellite (2 year contract and poor signal around here per neighbors).

Home insurance costs are likely much higher than you listed. If you have animals you'll have to get farm insurance. At least around here it's more expensive than that. We pay $1000/year and have only homeowner's insurance.

If you're going to have enough land to grow livestock feed you'll have to have a lot land. I'd expect your taxes to be much higher. We have only 27 acres and pay about $3000/year. Of course, property taxes will vary greatly by location. Is there a place where taxes are $600/year?

We don't use much propane. We have a heat pump that provides most of our heat. Our propane costs are twice your estimate, sometimes more.

We pay close to $80/month for about 30 chickens. Chickens need protein and I don't know how you'd grow enough chicken feed. Do you have a market for eggs? We can barely give ours away. Your feed costs seem unbelievably low.

What types of animals do you plan to have? We don't have any feed costs for our two horses because we grow our own hay. They still cost us $80/60 days for the farrier. Annual vet bills could run $300 to $600 assuming they don't hurt themselves. Supplies for homegrown Vet care are not exactly cheap.

Do you expect to purchase a new house? Home maintenance is expensive, especially if you plan to remodel. Do you plan to save for unexpected expenses such as your well, roof, driveway gravel (we spent $800 this year), septic, etc.?

Gas for vehicles is expensive out in the country because you have to drive long distances.

Have you researched the marked for the goods you plan to produce? Have you considered savings and retirement planning expenses?

I don't see Federal, SS, and State income tax costs on your list.

[ronron]

Our gas/diesel bill is over 300 a month
120 house/car insurance
175 utilities
125. cells and internet...no land line
100. Property taxes
20. garbage
200. groceries and cleaning supplies
400 non monthly expences repairs/ replacement/ birthdays/ hilodays.

1440.00 would be somewhat comfortable our insurance is covered in DH's retirement..
who plans to retire next year...I will work for several more years...we grow all our fruits, veggies, butcher and hunt for meat..I also bring home 3 to 4 grocery bags of left over food every week from my job usually supplies 2 to 3 meals for us (last night we had spaghetti garlid bread green beans and cake, on wednesday we had turkey a-la king over spaghetti squash all free)but mostly for the chickens of which we have 4 and we raise the rest of their food...since I have to drive 25 miles to town everyday I bring home a milk order once a week for the country store down the road, and pick up other needed items for her and she gives me a gallon or two of milk and other dairy products within reason for free.. But 7 years ago we could get by on 700.00 a month things have gone up considerably, Ill be curious to see what this list will cost in another 7 years.

[texican]

My advice?

Do exactly what you have planned... but you work off the farm too. Just do the 'farm work' after hours and weekends.

Budgets are nice, but if you don't 'figger' in "Life Happens" with all of it's exigent urgencies, you'll get underwater quickly.

I wouldn't plan on life being cheaper, because your goaling towards self sufficiency. I daresay everyone here is either goaling or goaled out on self sufficiency.... but if there's a poll taken, think most would agree self sufficiency costs more than store bought/produced. At least for a number of years.

And, unless you've 'done it' before, don't think about profits from farm based enterprises... Now, the major caveat (imho) is that if you live next to a metro area or area with lots of rich folks/yuppies/whatevers that crave farm fresh organic food, you've got a good chance of making it.

Insects, disease, varmints, weather, and numerous untangibles are always lurking in the background, waiting for a chance to jump up and bite you on the tuckus.

I try and keep my expenses down as much as possible... and months when I think I'm golden, something happens, and its busted.

I'd get two tanks for diesel, one for road fuel and one for off road. You'll get fried if your caught burning off road on the road, and your burning yourself if your running on road off the road... here it's at least 40c/gallon cheaper for off road fuel.

[Danaus29]

Laura, you've got me and the op confused. I live on a little bitty 1/4 acre property just outside of a major city. I actually own 2 houses, one is pretty run-down and needs a lot of work which we are doing as time allows. That's the cost of my homeowners insurance, that's the cost of my land line (all local and toll free calls are unlimited), that's the cost of my internet. Right now I have only the rabbits, not allowed any livestock including chickens. When I had my ducks we paid $100 a week for feed in the winter. The home repair/remodel costs are what we've been paying for a few years. I expect the cost to go up as we get into remodeling the other house. Sewer, because the county put it in and we all had to hook up, I don't live way out in the country. The big cost is the 2nd mort. There is no advantage in filing long form to get the income tax benefits when you don't pay enough interest to offset the standard deductions.

I didn't include federal, state and city taxes, or ss or fica. Those are taken out of our paychecks. I don't need to figure them in. What high cost credit? The interest on the cc (which has been cancelled and being paid down, it was used for a few things and a couple once-in-a-lifetime trips for which I have no regrets about the expense) is less than on the 2nd mort.

Dh drive 14 miles roundtrip to and from work. Not long at all. I drive 28 miles roundtrip, 1 week a month. The closest store (all-in-one, grocery and department) is 7 miles away. In Ohio agricultural land taxes are cheap, very cheap. They don't tax on buiding potential like some states, the biggest tax is on your house. You can have 200 acres and pay less tax on that than you would a $50,000 appraised value house on a city lot.

[Granny Sue]

I'm retiring in May so I'm making the same kind of lists. How long have you been on your place? What do you currently own in the way of supplies and tools? Getting set up is expensive, as you probably know.

We've looked at cost-return on animals and with the high input and time demands of raising most critters, they don't seem worth the trouble to me except for chickens and turkeys--rabbits might be worthwhile too but I'm not a fan of the meat. Why eat beef when deer are running rampant? Pork isn't really good for us with its high fat and cholesterol so it's off our diet anyway.

I think we can manage on $2250 a month. We have a few revenue streams coming in, and my retirement 401K as a backup and the additional cash we'll need at first. We raise most of our food, buy almost everything secondhand, don't take vacations and take good advantage of any wild food around us. We're also stocked with canners, jars, shop, kitchen and garden tools and other supplies that take a lot of initial investment. Our taxes on 80 acres are less than $700 a year and we have free gas and plenty of wood, our own well and septic, a root cellar, tractor, and the equipment we need to manage the small scale of homesteading we do. We're stocked on bee equipment too. The years of preparing for retiring and living a country life will, I hope, pay off for us in the end.

Internet and phones are a big expense for us--satellite internet is $60 a month, cells are $90, house phone is currently $60. We will probably drop the house phone, but the other costs can't be lowered at this point. It seems odd for communication to be such a large expense but there it is.

[shanzone2001]

Makes me cringe to think what I pay to support myself and my 2 children. If you add up the cost of our housing, utilities, food, gas, insurance, ect., my expenditures are close to $4300/month.
I no longer live where I can grow a garden and raise animals for eggs/meat.

[jwal10]

I am cheap and live on the cheap
7.95 cell phone plan, about 15.00 a month
internet is 9.95 a month on free cell phone (given to me by friend when he got a new one.
netflix 8.99 a month/ 1 movie at a time, usually 2 a week, free postage
food is 25.00 a month, includes jar lids, cereal, spices, sugar, special indulgences, etc
no water-bill gravity spring
no power-solar and microhydro
127.50 taxes a year
386.00 insurance a year, car (2006 HHR), cabin, 1 acre farm
20.00 a month for gas, 2 trips to town, a couple vacations, old lawn mower used to shred leaves, corn stalks etc and an old walk behind cycle mower to make goat and rabbit hay-straw and clip the pasture.
cleaners are homemade vinegar and washing soda, a bottle or 2 of bleach, you know how long a bar of soap lasts in a pocket scrubber? I harden the soap bars for several years.

A bag of feed costs me 2.00, heavy screenings from a friends seed cleaner for the goats and chickens. I buy rabbit pellets to suppliment the fryers and the 2 pregnant does. I buy wheat berries for sprouting and grinding from him at $6.00/50 lbs.

I have 1 acre taxed as farm, cabin and out buildings are below footage for taxes or are portable. 3 miles from city limits, end of road, backs up to forest land.

I have full health insurance through work (very very lucky)

This is all for our health, sanity and it is just our way of life. I make over $30.00 an hour at my job. We don't miss anything, our life is SIMPLE....James

[thestartupman]

Granny Sue, I am not on my acreage yet. I am currently on 5 acres in WA, looking to move next spring to TN, or MO. I have just excepted a buy out from my employer. I am saving, paying off all debt, and buying what supplies that will be worth transporting to my new farm. Getting ready to sell my car, and get my farm truck.